Saints v Dees Rd 1

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, rpfc said:

If Spencer spends more time in the ruck than Gawn, that would mean we have moved our AA ruckman to the forward line to accommodate our C+ pure ruck.

This may sound a bit MFCSS but that is so Melbourne...

Totally agree.  I see no need at all to tinker with a winning combination, which was Gawn rucking and having a pinch hitter giving him a rest.  Why they think sending him forward more often and putting Spencer in there is beyond me.

I know some will say that he needs more of a rest, but this isn't the way to do it.

[dazzledavey36 55,057]

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Totally agree.  I see no need at all to tinker with a winning combination, which was Gawn rucking and having a pinch hitter giving him a rest.  Why they think sending him forward more often and putting Spencer in there is beyond me.

I know some will say that he needs more of a rest, but this isn't the way to do it.

I always felt Gawn played alot better when he was rucking full time and Pedersen/Watts doing the chop out in bursts.

Spencer is still a big worry for me.

[hardtack 10,556]

And so it's now discussed as if an official pronouncement has been made Gawn will no longer be a full time ruck... now THAT is MFCSS 

[hells bells 2,023]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

If Spencer spends more time in the ruck than Gawn, that would mean we have moved our AA ruckman to the forward line to accommodate our C+ pure ruck.

This may sound a bit MFCSS but that is so Melbourne...

It also means that for 12 months Spencer has been training 1 on 1 against the AA ruckman.  Something to consider as it can't have hurt his development. 

[PaulRB 6,393]

We're saving Maxy for finals... ?

[Adam The God 30,304]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Totally agree.  I see no need at all to tinker with a winning combination, which was Gawn rucking and having a pinch hitter giving him a rest.  Why they think sending him forward more often and putting Spencer in there is beyond me.

I know some will say that he needs more of a rest, but this isn't the way to do it.

Hickey beat him twice last season or at the very least neutralised him. Perhaps, they think this is a way of switching things up, as well as providing a tall target at Etihad.

I hope they've improved their ball movement and leading patterns since the Eagles game though. Can't just kick it to the top of the square and have Gawn, Hogan and Watts all fly for the same ball.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Official no Hibbard

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-03-17/hibberd-to-miss-round-one

Meanwhile, Mahoney confirmed Melbourne had gained approval from the AFL to play 17 players in a VFL practice match this weekend.

[Pates 9,660]

42 minutes ago, A F said:

Hickey beat him twice last season or at the very least neutralised him. Perhaps, they think this is a way of switching things up, as well as providing a tall target at Etihad.

This is what I've been thinking, different way of approaching how Hickey won the battle twice last year. Could almost send Spencer in to crash and rough him up a little to make Maxy's job a little easier. 

That said I'd be worried about going into the game with too many talls. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Hickey beat him twice last season or at the very least neutralised him. Perhaps, they think this is a way of switching things up, as well as providing a tall target at Etihad.

I hope they've improved their ball movement and leading patterns since the Eagles game though. Can't just kick it to the top of the square and have Gawn, Hogan and Watts all fly for the same ball.

Possibly, but I still don't like it.  I can't see Spencer being able to do anything different to what Gawn would be doing, plus I'm not a huge fan of Gawn playing forward unless he has drifted there while in the ruck.  

Less than a week till we find out how we line up and I'm fascinated to see what Goody goes with.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Official no Hibbard

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-03-17/hibberd-to-miss-round-one

Meanwhile, Mahoney confirmed Melbourne had gained approval from the AFL to play 17 players in a VFL practice match this weekend.

Huge weekend for a host of players as there are still a handful of spots up for grabs.

All I want is a weekend of no injuries and some solid performances from guys like Tyson, Watts, Jetta, Kent, Garlett etc so they are right to go for Round 1.

[Demon Jack 6,926]

No Hibberd for round 1.

Joel Smith anyone?

[Gator 17,386]

We didn't lose last year twice because of Hickey nullifying Gawn.  We lost because their game-plan was far better, we were outnumbered at contests, and they used the boundary to move the footy as they carved holes in our zone defence.

[Pates 9,660]

16 minutes ago, ProDee said:

We didn't lose last year twice because of Hickey nullifying Gawn.  We lost because their game-plan was far better, we were outnumbered at contests, and they used the boundary to move the footy as they carved holes in our zone defence.

It was everything, including Hickey nullifying Gawn. It's an issue that needs to be considered as Gawn is one of our weapons. 

But yes, it needs to be a total balanced game plan that will beat the saints. 

[Gator 17,386]

7 minutes ago, Pates said:

It was everything, including Hickey nullifying Gawn. It's an issue that needs to be considered as Gawn is one of our weapons. 

If Gawn had prevailed over Hickey we still would have lost.

I'll be shocked if we play Spencer.

[Deestar9 1,638]

Pretty happy with the Spencer/Gawn combination.....  could force saints to play Hickeyn/Longer combination.....anyway have confidence in our coaching panel 

[brendan 3,437]

I like the gawn/spencer combo I think with 1 playing forward it puts pressure on the saints back line as they don't have a match up, BUT Must have small forwards and can't have all our talls going for the same ball, I think having mids playing forward and back allows us to play 2 Rucks, if we didn't bat so deep in the midfield I don't think we could pull it off, if Garlett and Kent both play I think we go with spencer 

[CHF 2,748]

R1 team is still far from settled with some of the ideas that were trailed in the pre-season asking more questions that settling on answers. I expect that after Casey's trail this weekend there will be a little more clarity in some areas. We have depth that we have not had for years and we have the flexibility and versatility to cover injuries and form dips. We just need to trust our match committee to get it right to play the grounds and get the match up to the opposition teams.

With St Kilda at Whatever it is called these days I hope that there has been a lot of time invested in watching how the successful teams play the ground. Not just accepting the general perceptions but some real good in depth study. If we have that intelligence as a basis along with knowledge of the St K players we can look at selecting a team to play on our terms and not theirs.

As with every other game we will play this season, It begins and ends in the midfield. If we can run  packs in both defence and attack we need to be relentless with our pressure, make sure our tackles stick and minimise turnovers. 

My Team for R1

Backs: Jetta, OMac, Garland

Half Back: Hunt, TMac, Melksham

Center: Salem, Oliver, Lewis

Half Forward: Brayshaw, Hogan, Petracca

Forward: Garlett, Pedersen, Watts

Fol: Gawn, Viney, Jones

Int: Tyson, Stretch, Vince, ANB

EMR: Spencer, Weid, Harmes

Jetta, OMac, TMac and Garland form the 'diamond' with both Pedersen and Watts able to go back there as cover if required. For me the defence is the most vulnerable zone we have on the team and we are going to need the midfielders to step up back there and be accountable. I have named Hunt and Melksham as HBFs but would expect them to spend time up the ground and for Lewis, Vince and Jones to move back into that zone at times.

In the midfield I would be looking to have as many options as possible at Etihad against St K. Salem, Oliver, Lewis, Viney, Jones with a 4 man running interchange of Stretch, Tyson, Vince and ANB and rotations of Hunt, Melksham, Brayshaw, Petracca and Garlett moving in there at times. I like the way Hogan has been used at center bounces during the pre-season and would like to see Watts standing there at times as well. just a it of a cure ball to throw at St Kilda.

Forward line with Pedersen taking a tall defender instead of Wied. watched Wied during the JLT and, while he has developed, I just do not see him able to do much damage at this stage. If Pedersen performs in the Casey game I would have him there and get him to relieve Gawn as required. Watts and Hogan to run all day and use the ground as much as possible, Garlett shows form in the Casey game and he is in R1 for me.

Gawn to take the majority of the ruck work and to work around the ground as we have seen him do. drift forward or back as required. I am continually surprised by the way he ha the nack of being in the right place at the right time.

Basic instructions: Pressure in all facets of the game all over the ground. Play smart and trust your teammate to do what is required. Be prepared to help when required. Be accountable but play  ahead of the game.

[Ted Lasso 19,526]

I think the biggest two factors to beating the saints are 

 

1.outnumbering and winning the contest 

2. Don't turn the ball over because they will cut us to ribbons if we do

 

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

With the news that Hibberd is out, and up to 17 listed players turning out for Casey, I agree that the line-up for Round 1 is far from settled.

Given his loss, I would much prefer Smith to Garland as the extra 'small' tall down back. I simply don't rate the latter.

I thought Pedo would be best 22 for us this year as the spare parts tall, but his lack of preseason and weight loss has me concerned for his durability and start to the year - I think that we've played Gawn and Spencer all of the preseason, we will continue with it for the regular season.

I hope that Watts and Jetta both play - I'm far more concerned about the latter's limited start to the year as he's a mainstay in the team for me; if the coaches prefer the potential of Weideman for the proven unreliability of Watts then I'd personally be okay with it. Disappointed, as I fully believe he's a best 22 player, but boy oh boy he must've stuffed up.

All last year we basically played 7 defenders - Vince would be the first choice defensive rotation but the likes of Jones, Lewis, Salem, Brayshaw, Stretch, Bugg can all contribute there I think, rotating through as that loose.

I'm really disappointed vandenBerg is crocked again - I think he's really important for our forward rotation with Petracca, Garlett, and Kent. If the latter doesn't play it's a big loss as he's a player with pace that moves up and runs and carries with the ball. We don't have enough of our mids do that.

Given his last start, I want Oliver as starting midfield. He's a contested beast. We will need a heap of rotations against the Saints I think. I'm really worried about their midfield dominance and their quick, zippy players particularly as I'm most worried about our propensity to turn it over and then see our zone defence cut to ribbons by quick and accurate ball movement.

B: Jetta - T Mac - Smith
HB: Hunt - O Mac - Melksham
C: Lewis - Jones - Vince
HF: Petracca - Hogan - Bugg
F: Spencer - Watts - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Viney
I/C: Salem - Brayshaw - Tyson - Stretch
Emerg: Garland - Weideman - Harmes
 

[RalphiusMaximus 6,079]

23 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think the biggest two factors to beating the saints are 

 

1.outnumbering and winning the contest 

2. Don't turn the ball over because they will cut us to ribbons if we do

 

I kind of disagree with the outnumbering bit.  We did that a lot last year and got hurt by it.  Their one player would dive into the middle of our four and just belt the ball into space rather than try to take possession.  Then they have three extra outside players to run away with it. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

9 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I kind of disagree with the outnumbering bit.  We did that a lot last year and got hurt by it.  Their one player would dive into the middle of our four and just belt the ball into space rather than try to take possession.  Then they have three extra outside players to run away with it. 

I had totally forgotten this, great point.

[Gator 17,386]

9 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I kind of disagree with the outnumbering bit.  We did that a lot last year and got hurt by it.  Their one player would dive into the middle of our four and just belt the ball into space rather than try to take possession.  Then they have three extra outside players to run away with it. 

Abe is right, we play an outnumber at the contest game that increases chances of possession.

Once in possession the mantra is to spread spread spread.  If there's a turnover the players are instructed to reverse the spread and get back into defensive positions as quick as ****

This game-plan isn't yet second nature, so positional errors cost us, but it will start to be cohesive throughout the season.

[spirit of norm smith 16,481]

Waiting until post VFL practice game.

certainly out: Frost Hibberd JKH Vandenberg

recovering/underdone: Garlett Kent Wagner J.Smith

ok: Tyson Watts

Saints have pace so need Hunt Melksham and Stretch. Garland to backup if o.mcd continued to struggle. Spencer supports maxy and go fwd. Pedersen or the Weid. 

jetta  t.mcd  garland

salem o.mcd Melksham

stretch Viney hunt

petracca  hogan brayshaw

harmes weideman/Pedersen watts

gawn lewis jones

oliver tyson vince spencer

[Watts the matter 1,235]

35 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Waiting until post VFL practice game.

certainly out: Frost Hibberd JKH Vandenberg

recovering/underdone: Garlett Kent Wagner J.Smith

ok: Tyson Watts

Saints have pace so need Hunt Melksham and Stretch. Garland to backup if o.mcd continued to struggle. Spencer supports maxy and go fwd. Pedersen or the Weid. 

jetta  t.mcd  garland

salem o.mcd Melksham

stretch Viney hunt

petracca  hogan brayshaw

harmes weideman/Pedersen watts

gawn lewis jones

oliver tyson vince spencer

I'd add Wagner to certainly out and the other 3 are good to go. Kent, Garlett and J. Smith all looked cherry ripe yesterday.

I hope your team is a bit off the mark. Don't want to see Spencer, Garland or Weideman in the team. I expect Weideman to be the only one of those three picked.

Also, doubt Jetta will play and they like Bugg so will probably find a spot for him.

[Wunders 397]

48 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Waiting until post VFL practice game.

certainly out: Frost Hibberd JKH Vandenberg

recovering/underdone: Garlett Kent Wagner J.Smith

ok: Tyson Watts

Saints have pace so need Hunt Melksham and Stretch. Garland to backup if o.mcd continued to struggle. Spencer supports maxy and go fwd. Pedersen or the Weid. 

jetta  t.mcd  garland

salem o.mcd Melksham

stretch Viney hunt

petracca  hogan brayshaw

harmes weideman/Pedersen watts

gawn lewis jones

oliver tyson vince spencer

We will have no forward pressure with Hogan, Watts, Spencer and one of weid/pedersen in the team. I Really hope the coach goes either Spencer OR Weid/Ped. If he doesn't i fear the game is already lost. that set up reminds me of the day we played collingwood and they played 3 ruckmen against us (the second i saw that it was a garunteed win and guess what? Every kick into their forward line that wasn't marked we ran out like a training drill.

If i had a choice against the saints I'd play Hogan and Watts as the talls and play 4 smalls to create that forward pressure (Ideally if fit: Garlett, Kent, Petracca & VDB).