Post Season Discussion 2016

[Demonsone 2,043]

Improvement is evident wit more wins & higher percentage.. Also in games with a chance against the better sides. Very young list who are playing in their 1st,2nd& 3rd yr..   Hogan only playing his second yr in the hardest position & expectations too high & ridiculous!  Oliver,petracca,Tyson ,brayshaw,Viney, stretch, hunt.. Throw in the Macca brothers .. Our list is building depth .. Sure loses to Ess & blues are let downs but part of ups & downs of a young list . Our best footy is great as shown against the Hawks but need to close the gap on our lapses .. Another preseason or 2 will help .. Foundation there & Roosy & co have done a great job!

[sue 9,142]

9 hours ago, beelzebub said:

StKilda achieved what used to be called a compensation pass. They at least satisfied the first part. They won more than they lost.

Had they achieved a better than 100 ℅ then in all likelihood they would have won more games.

We achieved neither. Still a fail.

Your focus on the magic number of 50% and now mentioning 'compensation' passes shows your thinking is dominated by your experience at school.  You think getting half the questions right in a maths exam is a pass and extend it to footy.  But don't you see that even when schools choose 50% as the 'pass' mark, it is an arbitrary measure of success in maths.   For someone aspiring to a career in astrophysics, 50% in maths is a fail.  For someone who was previously totally innumerate it may be a great success.     Titan-U's post 173 gets it right.

[Coq au vin 755]

23 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I know alot have put him in the trade bait list but I like JKH. I think he needs 1 more year. Want to see him get an injury free run. He has skill and while I would like him to be half a step faster I think he could fill a role in the future. Esspecialy with questionable consistancy from our current small forwards. A full pre-season and he will be right up in round 1 selection discussions.

I also think he could potentially rotate with others and play on the other wing opposite to Billy. People on here seem insistant on moving Hunt out of the backline onto that wing. God only knows why. He has come in and been a revelation on the back flank so lets move him somewhere else?! Makes no sense to me.

Positions aren't all that relevant any more with the rolling scrum style of AFL that has evolved.

[Adam The God 30,408]

29 minutes ago, Diamond said:

Positions aren't all that relevant any more with the rolling scrum style of AFL that has evolved.

Hello 2015. This myth that was thrown about a bit during 2015 was just that. A myth. There were rolling scrum contested football-heavy game styles in 2005, but not in the recent past and you certainly couldn't argument 2016 saw rolling scrums. That's just a load of rubbish. The game evolved to a perfect mixture between uncontested and contested football IMO.

[pinkshark 950]

Absolutely the year was a success.  Finished in a terrible way obviously but oh well...

In the depths of our ineptitude previous to 2015 all I can remember wanting was for our team to be competitive and be a 'possibility' to win games.  This is most certainly the case.  Having said all of that I still think the likes of Collingwood, Gold Coast (maybe) St.Kilda, Essendon Port Adelaide Freo and Carlton could all expect to be better next year and improve so we might finish below them which would not advance us up the ladder a great deal, if at all in Goodwins first year (all of a sudden he is under pressure to improve).  We are absolutely no certainty to be better than any of those teams.  There's only one winner all year and 17 other teams all think they're a chance.  As long as we are competitive I'm satisfied.

Hogan I reckon is done.  Homeward bound I'd say.  Hope I am wrong but I dont think he'll be a part of our future after next year.

Well done Paul Roos, well done Demons on your efforts this year (except the Essendon game - that one still grates on me like no other loss in the last five years).

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

On 29 August 2016 at 7:08 PM, CBDees said:

I'm predicting Trenners will be back next year and surprise many! He was always better than $cully on a number of fronts and next year he will surprise the pundits (as $cully has finally done this year)!

I like your reasoning and truly hope you are right. Trenners was certainly the better player in their first two seasons with us. 

It will come down to if he has completely gotten over his injury and if he can move onwards. He was a number 2 draft who in the early days looked certain to justify that ranking. If, if, if he can fulfil his potential it would be a brilliant result for Jack, the club and us supporters.

[SaberFang 7,151]

According to the geniuses on Fox Footy tonight, apparently they rate Essendon and St Kilda a C+ for their season, while we are rated a D.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

23 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

According to the geniuses on Fox Footy tonight, apparently they rate Essendon and St Kilda a C+ for their season, while we are rated a D.

Which show? 

Was it friggin Dermie or King? 

[SaberFang 7,151]

2 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Which show? 

Was it friggin Dermie or King? 

It was Bomber, King and Maclure, though Bomber was the one who covered our team. He looked utterly clueless though, constantly looking down at some papers in front of him.

A few bulbs short of a light, is Bomber.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Strangely the game is dominated by numbers. The score, the reward, the position the money and on and on.

Some seem content to consider the competition as though it was some namby pamby pc corrected outing where all the kiddies get a ribbon and no scores are rendered.

The reality is anything but.

If your not doing better than worse. You're failing

We are doing less bad, that's an improvement, but we're not over the line.

The ladder isn't arbitrary. It's crystal clear.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

24 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

It was Bomber, King and Maclure, though Bomber was the one who covered our team. He looked utterly clueless though, constantly looking down at some papers in front of him.

A few bulbs short of a light, is Bomber.

Just watched it - indeed Bomber is off with the fairies, I wouldn't read to much into it.

[SaberFang 7,151]

4 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Just watched it - indeed Bomber is off with the fairies, I wouldn't read to much into it.

I noted that Maclure scoffed when Bomber said it, noting it was our best season in years. Aren't we also the only team in the bottom 10 who defeated Hawthorn this year?

And for all the fawning over St Kilda winning 2 games more than us, half of their wins were due to luxurious double matches against us at Etihad, and 4 games against Carlton and Essendon. Their draw will be seriously harder next year.

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

The on the couch team did a similar review of teams outside the 8 , much better than last night...and BTW  jono brown said the dees were the most likely of the group to break into the 8 next year 

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

On 30/08/2016 at 9:43 AM, mo64 said:

This year rates as a pass, but nothing more. Our list has improved since Roos took over, but that's due to our high draft picks over those years.

Selection over the year was mind boggling at times. I'm not one for playing youth for youth's sake, and Pedersen's ommission after the Hawthorn and P.Adelaide games was a disgrace. Inexperience was always Roos' crutch to lean on after a poor loss.

With a good matchday coach, we have the talent to make finals next year.

Over to you Goodwin.

 

to be fair Roos has been very aggressive with youth no doubt. if it was a coach fighting for his job, 1 or 2 of Grimes, Garland and Dunn would be playing in our backline. He was willing to forego that and play everyone and still got 10 wins. Because of this we unearthed Hunt, OMac and Wagner who was excellent for a short period.

The whole backline (which was our only strength not long ago) needed revamping to go up the ladder, and if Goodwin gets Hibberd he can add Salem, Lumumba (perhaps) and hibberd to Hunt, Jetta and Tom McDonald. Then all of a sudden we look stronger down back.

Yes he played Weideman ahead of others and it failed for the last 2 games but he got a fair bit right as well.

Next year if we can sure up that backline we should be playing finals with a developing hard midfield and potent forward line.

 

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

On 8/28/2016 at 4:04 PM, titan_uranus said:

Next year is about taking the platform we have built and adding a key rung to it - winning when we are expected to, and should, win. Whilst every club has upset losses, we can't afford five of them (Essendon, Carlton, Port, and two to St Kilda). We need to deal with the pressure of expectation. 

 

How was the Port loss in Alice Springs an upset loss? I think we were $2.15 going into the game.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Older demon 2,779]

Listening to Sen yesterday discussing Bombers coaching and his time at Geelong. There is some parallels with us and the young group at Geelong at the time. Tom harley's appointment as captain was discussed as the leader and Scarlett's role demanding higher standards even though he could play hard off field. Scarlo also was constantly in conflict with Stevie J who he thought was slack. Bomber started with a very young talented group in 2000 and by the end of 2003 was looking shaky and at the end of 2006 was facing the sack and only an extensive review saved him. 2007 started slowly until they won 15 straight and went on to win the flag by a record margin.

My point is that it took 7 years. We may have to wait until this group Viney, Trac, Oscar, Gus, Oliver etc have 5 years of ups and downs to toughen up grow and develop. A reminder of how tough and brutal this comp is.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

4 minutes ago, Older demon said:

My point is that it took 7 years. We may have to wait until this group Viney, Trac, Oscar, Gus, Oliver etc have 5 years of ups and downs to toughen up grow and develop. A reminder of how tough and brutal this comp is.

Whilst I agree in premise, Geelong were not in competition with a super-power club from Sydney full of disgusting talent.

And I'm seriously scared of what they will look like in a few years when we are playing finals.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,297]

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

Listening to Sen yesterday discussing Bombers coaching and his time at Geelong. There is some parallels with us and the young group at Geelong at the time. Tom harley's appointment as captain was discussed as the leader and Scarlett's role demanding higher standards even though he could play hard off field. Scarlo also was constantly in conflict with Stevie J who he thought was slack. Bomber started with a very young talented group in 2000 and by the end of 2003 was looking shaky and at the end of 2006 was facing the sack and only an extensive review saved him. 2007 started slowly until they won 15 straight and went on to win the flag by a record margin.

My point is that it took 7 years. We may have to wait until this group Viney, Trac, Oscar, Gus, Oliver etc have 5 years of ups and downs to toughen up grow and develop. A reminder of how tough and brutal this comp is.

They made a PF in 2004 and SF in 2005 before dropping off in 2006 and rebounding in 2007 though.

[Adam The God 30,408]

11 hours ago, Older demon said:

Listening to Sen yesterday discussing Bombers coaching and his time at Geelong. There is some parallels with us and the young group at Geelong at the time. Tom harley's appointment as captain was discussed as the leader and Scarlett's role demanding higher standards even though he could play hard off field. Scarlo also was constantly in conflict with Stevie J who he thought was slack. Bomber started with a very young talented group in 2000 and by the end of 2003 was looking shaky and at the end of 2006 was facing the sack and only an extensive review saved him. 2007 started slowly until they won 15 straight and went on to win the flag by a record margin.

My point is that it took 7 years. We may have to wait until this group Viney, Trac, Oscar, Gus, Oliver etc have 5 years of ups and downs to toughen up grow and develop. A reminder of how tough and brutal this comp is.

Yep, or you can track like Hawthorn did and pinch one early. History does tell us Hawthorn is the anomaly though.

And RE: GWS, they'll be tough competition, but I think they'll keep losing players and this upcoming finals campaign could set them up for sustained success or heap a monkey on the shoulder. I don't fear them as some seem to. Leon Cameron reminds me of Brett Ratten as a coach and their culture seems a little ordinary, then again, so was Collingwood's in 2010.

Anyway, premiership success is never assured. Injuries and other forms of luck can have a huge say. What would we think of the Gold Coast now had O'Meara, Swallow, Ablett and Prestia been able to get on the park regularly?

A few months ago I tipped GWS for the flag, but they could just as easily fail to win one in this generation. Yes, they're packed with talent, but I don't think you can buy a premiership, you can do your best to set it all up as the AFL have with unprecedented access to top end talent, but as we've seen with the Suns, anything can happen and that's before culture even comes into it.

Edited September 1, 2016 by A F

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

Damian Barret and Matthew Lloyd discussing our season

The most disappointing thing is that both of them see us as stagnating next year and finishing around 10 wins.

I know many on this forum will lambast these commentators but it shows how we are realistically perceived in the media.

Consistent wins against bottom 8 teams will do a lot to put us up there.

 

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-09-06/time-to-put-up-or-shut-up-demons

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

^ Matthew Lloyd is bordering on *word I don't wish to use*.

During his playing days, I once saw a news clip of Lloyd and another high profile player planting trees as part of a community project in an area of Melbourne.

There was vision of Lloyd digging a hole with a spade... I have never in my life seen somebody with such limited coordination execute the action: dig, step and shovel.

It was incredible. He was so confused. I'll never forget it. Never.

 

As for his review of our season with that weasel, Lloyd completely contradicts himself by saying it's time for us to 'put up or shut up' and that we need to stop 'teasing' and that he is sick of us being so up and down. Yet at the end of the washup he predicts us to 'stagnate' next year, stating that we're 'not yet ready for finals which would be a major disappointment'. WTF is that sentence.

Good one Matthew.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

33 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Damian Barret and Matthew Lloyd discussing our season

The most disappointing thing is that both of them see us as stagnating next year and finishing around 10 wins.

I know many on this forum will lambast these commentators but it shows how we are realistically perceived in the media.

Consistent wins against bottom 8 teams will do a lot to put us up there.

 

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-09-06/time-to-put-up-or-shut-up-demons

The media sees clubs only as good as their  most recent performances. If the season finished after the Port game we would have been considered top 8.  It's our own fault we can't finish off a season on a high. If we can't beat teams when overwhelming favourites we won't shake the softcoque  losers tag.

Edited September 8, 2016 by america de cali

[P-man 13,366]

On 31 August 2016 at 9:19 PM, SaberFang said:

According to the geniuses on Fox Footy tonight, apparently they rate Essendon and St Kilda a C+ for their season, while we are rated a D.

Bomber and Maclure take a passing interest at best. It's obvious how little time and preparation they put in for supposed "analysts". The others on the panel pretty much just take the pizz out of Maclure despite his attempts to be taken seriously. 

I'm not David King's biggest fan but he actually invests time into analysing each club. I doubt he'd have given Melbourne a D.

In a sense, I don't mind the lower ratings for the season even if some of it is based on ignorance. For us it is about setting higher expectations.

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

43 minutes ago, america de cali said:

The media sees clubs only as good as their  most recent performances. If the season finished after the Port game we would have been considered top 8.  It's our own fault we can't finish off a season on a high. If we can't beat teams when overwhelming favourites we won't shake the softcoque  losers tag.

Yep losing to Carlscum in Round 22 did a lot of percieved damage...

We keep doing it

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sir Why You Little

[Redleg 41,428]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yep losing to Carlscum in Round 22 did a lot of percieved damage...

We keep doing it

And the Bombers and we on DL see it coming.