Norm Smith to Simon Goodwin

[youami 53]

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

[beelzebub 22,355]

Hey if you can blitz all that in a magic Bullet and bottle it. I'll buy some 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,934]

Sounds just like the "Six degrees of separation" theory. Regardless I hope we get a flag or 5 in in the Goodwin era.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

The family tree approach to judging coaching is well respected. Whether it's the Tom Hafey family (Kevin Sheedy and Mick Malthouse followed by John Worsfold, for example) or the Norm Smith family (Ron Barassi followed by Malcolm Blight) or the John Kennedy family (David Parkin and Leigh Matthews subsequently followed by the Scott twins), etc, there is logic in the idea. Successful coaches teach future successful coaches. 

Of course, not every descendant in the family can be a success (Hardwick, Hird, Voss...and many more) but the opening post makes sense overall.

[Chris 2,892]

10 hours ago, youami said:

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

The only issue I see with your argument is that the 2 Adelaide premierships were in Goodwins first 2 years on the list so I am not sure you could say he was their best. Blight may still have had the impact on Goodwin you are arguing though, especially as he was his first AFL coach and his most successful. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Hopefully 3 time premiership player Jack Viney does an apprenticeship somewhere else before he continues the chain and leads us to further glory.

[hemingway 7,605]

Like your creative thinking Youami. I suppose the other obvious thing to say is that those coaches had great lists of talented and driven footballers as a result of great recruiting of young talent and experienced talent that was allowed to flourish in a successful environment. That was certainly the case with Smith at Melbourne and Barassi at Carlton and North. I would not put Blight in that same frame. For a period with Smith and Barassi, success built on success just as we see today with the top teams. Hopefully we are creating that environment at Melbourne. The other comment to make is that the coaches you mentioned had very strong values, and they imparted strong discipline and team rules. They made tough decisions and were uncompromising in their attitudes. They also had the respect but not necessary the love of their players. If you link Goodwin to these attributes he has a lot to live up to. He apparently is loved by the players but he had yet to gain the respect of his players, club and football world.  He will need to achieve early team success and show us that he is a leader and coach with strong values who is uncompromising in his quest for success. He will need to develop the right culture and a game plan that works. He will also need to break some players hearts along the way. 

[Lucifers Hero 37,326]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Like your creative thinking Youami. I suppose the other obvious thing to say is that those coaches had great lists of talented and driven footballers as a result of great recruiting of young talent and experienced talent that was allowed to flourish in a successful environment. That was certainly the case with Smith at Melbourne and Barassi at Carlton and North. I would not put Blight in that same frame. For a period with Smith and Barassi, success built on success just as we see today with the top teams. Hopefully we are creating that environment at Melbourne. The other comment to make is that the coaches you mentioned had very strong values, and they imparted strong discipline and team rules. They made tough decisions and were uncompromising in their attitudes. They also had the respect but not necessary the love of their players. If you link Goodwin to these attributes he has a lot to live up to. He apparently is loved by the players but he had yet to gain the respect of his players, club and football world.  He will need to achieve early team success and show us that he is a leader and coach with strong values who is uncompromising in his quest for success. He will need to develop the right culture and a game plan that works. He will also need to break some players hearts along the way. 

Well said hemingway and totally share your views.  Undoubtedly, he has many strengths that he brings to the club/team. 

The parts underlined are those on which he has a bit of work to do, imo.  He has some ?marks on his values in decision making which hopefully don't come back and bite him when it comes to earning respect.

While he will have a honeymoon period early success is essential to keep the media wolves at bay and to feed the optimism Roos has sown.

The club has done everything possible to 'set him up for success'.  We just have to wait and let it unfold.

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

12 hours ago, youami said:

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

Love the connections youve made......its very interesting. Well done on a quality original post. I have even more positive thoughts on all this now.

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

Hey ... Neeld tried that same approach.

Only he had such high regard for his players, he did it to all of them.

Dunno why it didn't work. Maybe it diluted the excellence too much.

[picket fence 15,571]

21 hours ago, youami said:

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

The Red Fox is my equivalent to the Bible! 

Classic!! 

[bush demon 1,915]

Everything that goes around, comes around. In the 60's, and then with North in the 70's our premiership model was appropriated by the rising clubs. Ron Barassi, surely one of the last 'non-thinking coaches' was able to terrorise talented footballers into becoming premiership bullies, just like the Dees  under Smith did years earlier. As far as 6 degrees of separation and a tenuous S.A link are concerned, I think it all started with the post '64 premiership 'championship of australia', when melbourne defeated South Adelaide in Adelaide to win this unofficial title for the third time. South Adelaide revealed themselves to be a highly competitive unit, and showed that south australian footy was definitely on a par with victorian footy, it's just that we stole all the interstate footballers to make our code look good. we tried to bring in darren? jarman in the 90's from s.a  as one of our draft picks but he wouldn't come, proudly remaining home to help adelaide win their first flags. now all these years later simon goodwin steps into the hardest job in football - returning our club to their mythical, legendary status. 

[junk 342]

Norm Smith could have been much more successful than what he was because the club knocked back the gret Poly Farmer(Geelong) and Darryl Baldock (St.Kilda). Hopefully Simon and co. get it right and continue with success.

[youami 53]

Glenn Bartlett made the same link as me - Smith to Barassi to Blight to Goodwin at today's press conference.

I like Bartlett, does not seek the limelight and runs a very tight ship with the support of others.

Good luck Simon.

 

 

[Vagg 2,422]

6 hours ago, youami said:

Glenn Bartlett made the same link as me - Smith to Barassi to Blight to Goodwin at today's press conference.

I like Bartlett, does not seek the limelight and runs a very tight ship with the support of others.

Good luck Simon.

 

 

Maybe Glenn read your post and plagiarised it!

[dee-eee 231]

On ‎13‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 2:48 PM, ENYAW said:

Norm Smith could have been much more successful than what he was because the club knocked back the gret Poly Farmer(Geelong) and Darryl Baldock (St.Kilda). Hopefully Simon and co. get it right and continue with success.

Swooper Northey could have been much more successful if his teams by necessity were not topped up with so many cast-off journeymen . His players really put-in for him ,  his 90-76 Win/Loss record  remarkable under the circumstances .

[Moonshadow 16,411]

'Tenuous' being the op's most pionent word.

[praha 10,368]

The game has changed a lot and players and coaches get caught up in hip new theories and standards and whatnot.

But one thing lasts the ages and will never become obsolete: it doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't strive to be the best you'll only ever be last.

So many good players only ever go through the motions. Michae Jordan said that the guys he'd ride most in practice were the superstars because they were so complacent, that he would push them harder because it was so hard to get them to go that extra mile. He hated playing against the reserves because they were always fighting and scrapping. Read up on his brawl with Steve Kerr. Kerr was this white little stick who kept taking it to him in practice. It took taking it up to the best and not lying down to be respected by the best. 6 months later Jordan passed up a winning shot and gave it to Kerr for the gamer winner and championship. NBA fans will know this story well.

[Deevolution 103]

Great post,  I have a feeling in my waters that Goody is the man to complete the circle.

[Biffen 12,433]

He's achieved nothing since becoming coach.

I wonder if complacency has set in.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

On 16/09/2016 at 6:09 PM, Biffen said:

He's achieved nothing since becoming coach.

I wonder if complacency has set in.

Not true.

He had a press conference and did some interviews.

Clearly a media [censored].

[youami 53]

On 8/3/2016 at 2:49 PM, youami said:

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

Unashamed bump for this one. 

[Chook 14,616]

Games are won by 22/23 players.

Premierships are won by over a hundred individuals across an entire club.

Sure, leaders play their role, but so do all. We play a role as supporters too, and everyone up to Max Gawn and Simon Goodwin has a part in getting us to this point.

And it all matters. Maybe even bumping this thread will be the thing that breaks the drought.

Probably not though.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:06 AM, Chook said:

Games are won by 22/23 players.

Premierships are won by over a hundred individuals across an entire club.

Sure, leaders play their role, but so do all. We play a role as supporters too, and everyone up to Max Gawn and Simon Goodwin has a part in getting us to this point.

And it all matters. Maybe even bumping this thread will be the thing that breaks the drought.

Probably not though.

I know I've been doing my bit for the last 57 years. About time the players and the coach contributed!

[Cranky Franky 1,545]

On 8/3/2016 at 10:49 PM, youami said:

I have been sitting on a theory for years about the tenuous link between Norm Smith and Simon Goodwin.

Having read the Red Fox, but certainly not being an expert, part of Norm Smith's strategy during his coaching career was to attack and demand the highest of standards from his best player.

During Norm Smith's coaching era, this player was Ron Barassi.  Result 6 premierships.

When Ron became a coach, he employed the same strategy, and his target was Malcolm Blight at North Melbourne. Result 2 premierships.

Malcolm had some of the craziest strategies, but I'm not sure he ever attacked Goodwin  the way Barassi did to Blight, and Smith to Barassi before that, you could reasonably argue Goodwin was the best player at the Crows during Blight's time as coach.  Result 2 premierships.

This legacy has netted 10 premierships.

And now, it has come full circle with Goodwin coming to Melbourne, which has never been the same since Smith was sacked.

Wouldn't it be great if Goodwin is the man to end the curse.

I think your theory is a bit simplistic.  Smith was certainly tougher on his top players including Barassi but also on the others like Spencer, Ridley, Williams, Mithen etc. He won 6 flags because he had great teams & coached well.

Ditto with North - they won because they had a great team.  In fact Blight wasn't in the best players in either of their flag sides.