Changes for Round 2

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Spencer is improving in that area, my point was Gawn is not in very good form, why Frost is there in the first place

Not fast enough to make the cut at AFL level I'm afraid.

Spencer is behind Gawn in terms of versatility, regardless of your opinion of their form to date. These days, unless you're Shane Mumford, ruckmen need to be able to contribute around the ground which includes: taking contested marks, providing strong contests, an understanding of running patterns, to be able to go forward and hit the scoreboard and to intercept mark and help out in defence. I can't say I've ever seen Spencer achieve that consistently in a game at AFL level.

Unfortunately for Spencer, I think he's days are numbered. We'll be looking at a ruckman via FA next year or in a trade. It'll have to be a priority you'd think with Jamar nearly at the end. Luey will be on the radar as a FA.

As for team ins, if it were up to me it'd be making the following:

Ins: Dawes and Vince

Outs : Toumpas and JKH

JKH would be very very unlucky but I'd be doing it purely for match-ups. I believe Vince's value is greater than that of JKH's in this game.

We need that extra experienced AFL hardened player to go through the middle. And I'd be playing Vince on Griffen for part of the game.

Edited April 8, 2015 by stevethemanjordan

[Akum 2,660]

...

As for team ins, if it were up to me it'd be making the following:

Ins: Dawes and Vince

Outs : Toumpas and JKH

JKH would be very very unlucky but I'd be doing it purely for match-ups. I believe Vince's value is greater than that of JKH's in this game.

Whoever misses out for Dawes will be very unlucky. There's no easy solution.

Having said that, I agree with these "outs", they make the most sense.

[Nasher 33,616]

Now that we're up to page 23, I'm pretty much resigned to Toumpas and JKH out for Dawes and Vince in. Despite my conversation starter to open this thread, I reckon everyone who pointed out that Frost is too versatile and important are correct. It's been far more persuasive than the argument some have put forward that Dawes should spend the match in the VFL as a "lesson". I would have thought the suspension would provide any lesson needed.

Both outs desperately unlucky, especially JKH. Our team looks stronger on paper with these adjustments though for mine.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

Some interesting discussion here. And some that just confuses me.

I would have thought the first question to be asked is not whether Dawes comes in or not but whether Jamar can ruck all day on his own against Mumford. I'd say he can't. And I wouldn't like to go into any game with just one ruckman. So does Frost stay, or is he replaced? If so, by whom? Cutting to the chase, I'd say Frost has to stay as he provides more pace than Gawn, Spencer or any of the other makeshift options.

So, if Frost stays, can he play in the backline and share ruck duties? No. When he's not rucking he's either going to be forward or off the ground. Which means, without any changes, the forward kline holds Hogan, Watts, Frost/Jamar, vandenBerg and the smaller players (Kent, JKH and Garlett).

Now we can discuss Dawes. The most physically similar players left in the forward line who Dawes could theoretically replace are Hogan, Watts and vandenBerg. Do I think Dawes is a better prospect for the game this week than vandenBerg? Yes, I do.

If vandenBerg loses his spot in the forward line, can he fit in elsewhere? Maybe. He'll be fighting for a spot with Brayshaw, Toumpas, JKH, Kent and Vince as a mid/forward. If he has the tank to spend more time in the midfield, vandenBerg may still get selected. If, however, his tank won't allow him to run through the midfield all day, then I think he may be omitted.

As for Vince, for mine it's a question of whether Brayshaw or Toumpas loses their spot. Brayshaw looks the more likely longterm prospect but doesn't yet have the tank. I'd be happy for him to return to Casey until he's needed and for Toumpas to get another game (but not as the sub).

So, assuming no injuries,

IN: Dawes, Vince

OUT: vandenBerg, Brayshaw

[hemingway 7,627]

Spencer will only come in if Jamar goes down, as he's purely a no.1 ruckman. During the preseason and NAB Cup, Gawn was given every opportunity to cement the 2nd ruck position and failed.

Frost displays the intangibles (2nd efforts) that don't show up on the stats sheet, which is why he's in the side. Even if he doesn't get the hit out, he competes at ground level. He also has pace to lose his opponent running forward. Unfortunately he's an average kick because he missed 2 gettable goals on Saturday. If he kicks them, everyone would be lauding him.

good comment on frost. give me spring and mobility around the ground any day. this is my problem with Jamar although I thought he did better last w/e.

[Damo 3,356]

Jamar was great last weekend, but my fear is Frost isnt big and mean enough to go against Mummy.

Mumford always plays well against us. Spencer gets around to every contest and battles hard. There is no other attribute other than that.

But Dawes and Gawn for all their other claims cant do it. I wouldnt pick Spencil just on that alone, but Jamar Vs Mumford is an interesting contest.

I wish I could stop reading this thread!

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I don't really want either of them out, but I think Kent had a more defensive role on Malceski and performed it really well, and still provided a bit of danger in attack. I would guess that the coaches would have rated Kent's game better than JKH.

Kent on Shaw then with kents pace messing with composure from the gws defence?

[mo64 5,874]

Jamar was great last weekend, but my fear is Frost isnt big and mean enough to go against Mummy.

Mumford always plays well against us. Spencer gets around to every contest and battles hard. There is no other attribute other than that.

But Dawes and Gawn for all their other claims cant do it. I wouldnt pick Spencil just on that alone, but Jamar Vs Mumford is an interesting contest.

I wish I could stop reading this thread!

We need players going 3rd man up against Mumford at stoppages around the ground. Howe, Dunn and Watts are all capable. Hawthorn regularly use Hodge and Lewis in that role.

[hemingway 7,627]

Some interesting discussion here. And some that just confuses me.

I would have thought the first question to be asked is not whether Dawes comes in or not but whether Jamar can ruck all day on his own against Mumford. I'd say he can't. And I wouldn't like to go into any game with just one ruckman. So does Frost stay, or is he replaced? If so, by whom? Cutting to the chase, I'd say Frost has to stay as he provides more pace than Gawn, Spencer or any of the other makeshift options.

So, if Frost stays, can he play in the backline and share ruck duties? No. When he's not rucking he's either going to be forward or off the ground. Which means, without any changes, the forward kline holds Hogan, Watts, Frost/Jamar, vandenBerg and the smaller players (Kent, JKH and Garlett).

Now we can discuss Dawes. The most physically similar players left in the forward line who Dawes could theoretically replace are Hogan, Watts and vandenBerg. Do I think Dawes is a better prospect for the game this week than vandenBerg? Yes, I do.

If vandenBerg loses his spot in the forward line, can he fit in elsewhere? Maybe. He'll be fighting for a spot with Brayshaw, Toumpas, JKH, Kent and Vince as a mid/forward. If he has the tank to spend more time in the midfield, vandenBerg may still get selected. If, however, his tank won't allow him to run through the midfield all day, then I think he may be omitted.

As for Vince, for mine it's a question of whether Brayshaw or Toumpas loses their spot. Brayshaw looks the more likely longterm prospect but doesn't yet have the tank. I'd be happy for him to return to Casey until he's needed and for Toumpas to get another game (but not as the sub).

So, assuming no injuries,

IN: Dawes, Vince

OUT: vandenBerg, Brayshaw

Really well reasoned La Dee, but gee it's tough on V&B. However, as Roos points out its about having the conversation in a way that will not discourage these boys. With Roos and Co we now have coaching nouse that allows for this to happen in a positive manner.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

Really well reasoned La Dee, but gee it's tough on V&B. However, as Roos points out its about having the conversation in a way that will not discourage these boys. With Roos and Co we now have coaching nouse that allows for this to happen in a positive manner.

I agree it would be tough. But it's going to be tough on two players this weekend. Those two could, of course, include Dawes and/or Vince who may have to wait their turn. Or it could be any of a handful of which vanDemonland is just one.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

Now that we're up to page 23, I'm pretty much resigned to Toumpas and JKH out for Dawes and Vince in. Despite my conversation starter to open this thread, I reckon everyone who pointed out that Frost is too versatile and important are correct. It's been far more persuasive than the argument some have put forward that Dawes should spend the match in the VFL as a "lesson". I would have thought the suspension would provide any lesson needed.

Both outs desperately unlucky, especially JKH. Our team looks stronger on paper with these adjustments though for mine.

Why JHK out and not Kent?

I think JHK had a better game!

[ManDee 7,148]

more importantly, who are we going to bring in to tag the danger man Scully? Mckenzie?

Trengove could do it on one leg.

[Coup Cooper 610]

Some interesting discussion here. And some that just confuses me.

I would have thought the first question to be asked is not whether Dawes comes in or not but whether Jamar can ruck all day on his own against Mumford. I'd say he can't. And I wouldn't like to go into any game with just one ruckman. So does Frost stay, or is he replaced? If so, by whom? Cutting to the chase, I'd say Frost has to stay as he provides more pace than Gawn, Spencer or any of the other makeshift options.

So, if Frost stays, can he play in the backline and share ruck duties? No. When he's not rucking he's either going to be forward or off the ground. Which means, without any changes, the forward kline holds Hogan, Watts, Frost/Jamar, vandenBerg and the smaller players (Kent, JKH and Garlett).

Now we can discuss Dawes. The most physically similar players left in the forward line who Dawes could theoretically replace are Hogan, Watts and vandenBerg. Do I think Dawes is a better prospect for the game this week than vandenBerg? Yes, I do.

If vandenBerg loses his spot in the forward line, can he fit in elsewhere? Maybe. He'll be fighting for a spot with Brayshaw, Toumpas, JKH, Kent and Vince as a mid/forward. If he has the tank to spend more time in the midfield, vandenBerg may still get selected. If, however, his tank won't allow him to run through the midfield all day, then I think he may be omitted.

As for Vince, for mine it's a question of whether Brayshaw or Toumpas loses their spot. Brayshaw looks the more likely longterm prospect but doesn't yet have the tank. I'd be happy for him to return to Casey until he's needed and for Toumpas to get another game (but not as the sub).

So, assuming no injuries,

IN: Dawes, Vince

OUT: vandenBerg, Brayshaw

Some interesting discussion here. And some that just confuses me.

I would have thought the first question to be asked is not whether Dawes comes in or not but whether Jamar can ruck all day on his own against Mumford. I'd say he can't. And I wouldn't like to go into any game with just one ruckman. So does Frost stay, or is he replaced? If so, by whom? Cutting to the chase, I'd say Frost has to stay as he provides more pace than Gawn, Spencer or any of the other makeshift options.

So, if Frost stays, can he play in the backline and share ruck duties? No. When he's not rucking he's either going to be forward or off the ground. Which means, without any changes, the forward kline holds Hogan, Watts, Frost/Jamar, vandenBerg and the smaller players (Kent, JKH and Garlett).

Now we can discuss Dawes. The most physically similar players left in the forward line who Dawes could theoretically replace are Hogan, Watts and vandenBerg. Do I think Dawes is a better prospect for the game this week than vandenBerg? Yes, I do.

If vandenBerg loses his spot in the forward line, can he fit in elsewhere? Maybe. He'll be fighting for a spot with Brayshaw, Toumpas, JKH, Kent and Vince as a mid/forward. If he has the tank to spend more time in the midfield, vandenBerg may still get selected. If, however, his tank won't allow him to run through the midfield all day, then I think he may be omitted.

As for Vince, for mine it's a question of whether Brayshaw or Toumpas loses their spot. Brayshaw looks the more likely longterm prospect but doesn't yet have the tank. I'd be happy for him to return to Casey until he's needed and for Toumpas to get another game (but not as the sub).

So, assuming no injuries,

IN: Dawes, Vince

OUT: vandenBerg, Brayshaw

Theres no way Vandenberg misses.. He is a lock for 5 rounds!

Toumpus is dead weight! And the easiest to be dropped.. Not one touch he had was to our advantage..

[parch_37 38]

If Tomlinson were to go back up ruck for GWS, couldn't we just have Frost follow him around all day? Including in the ruck?

It's a role Jackson Trengove plays for PA. Plays on the resting ruck and then just follows them into the ruck when they go in.

Could have Dunn on McCarthy, McDonald/Garland on Cameron?

[lucifer 119]

As hard as it is, I reckon Toump is the given to be omitted. After him, i'd say it's out of Brayshaw and JKH. The reason I'd go JKH ahead of Kent is because I reckon Kent provides a bit of mongrel, he's just a little bit harder at it at the moment than JKH. I really want them to keep Brayshaw in, but given what Roos has said, wouldn't be shocked if it was him.

Dawes & Vince are clearly best 22 - so with that in mind

IN - Dawes & Vince

OUT - Toumpas & JKH

[rolly 149]

Out: toumpas, jkh

Ins: vince, dawes

Brayshaw as sub.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Toumpas had 16% disposal efficiency. And that's supposed to be his strong point. And in one of the more open games he'll ever get to play in. Not good enough, it was more than just a bad day. I feel for him but he needs an extended run in the VFL and needs to smash the door back down to get back in.

There's no chance at all Frost goes out. None.

[PaulRB 6,363]

Frost to front up against former side

Vince ready to push for senior claims Edited April 8, 2015 by PaulRB

[beelzebub 23,376]

That's why he's not at Collingwood anymore. He can't do it...

wasnt brought here to do that either...hes a lock in for mine.

makes manning up our fwd line rather interesting

[rpfc 28,430]

Toumpas had 16% disposal efficiency. And that's supposed to be his strong point. And in one of the more open games he'll ever get to play in. Not good enough, it was more than just a bad day. I feel for him but he needs an extended run in the VFL and needs to smash the door back down to get back in.

There's no chance at all Frost goes out. None.

As some others have suggested - I don't know how they come up with that. Half his touches were efficient from what I can see, but the Champion Data people judged them inefficient for some reason. Not a huge fan of that stat.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Whether youre a fan or not..the Toump aint there yet. The learning place is the magoos the serious playing for real arena is the 1sts.

You have to be of merit for a call up, or a selection. You have to ADD not detract.

I still think the Toump was the wrong choice, but hes ours. That he should play ? Its only really a question of relevance. He 'stank ' it up somewhat on the weekend. lets hope he irons out his erroneous ways and steps up. then hes of value.

people need to stop playing fav's. This is a 'for real ' comp. we're there to win. magoos is the learning ground.

[old dee 23,791]

Whether youre a fan or not..the Toump aint there yet. The learning place is the magoos the serious playing for real arena is the 1sts.

You have to be of merit for a call up, or a selection. You have to ADD not detract.

I still think the Toump was the wrong choice, but hes ours. That he should play ? Its only really a question of relevance. He 'stank ' it up somewhat on the weekend. lets hope he irons out his erroneous ways and steps up. then hes of value.

people need to stop playing fav's. This is a 'for real ' comp. we're there to win. magoos is the learning ground.

Spot on bb

The simple fact as you say is he is not afl standard right now.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,395]

more importantly, who are we going to bring in to tag the danger man Scully? Mckenzie?

??

[Deestroy All 14,266]

As some others have suggested - I don't know how they come up with that. Half his touches were efficient from what I can see, but the Champion Data people judged them inefficient for some reason. Not a huge fan of that stat.

I remember 1 handball hit a target, and 1 kick went to a 50/50. 3 handballs resulted in turnovers. Dunno what happened with the one I don't remember, the stat would be spot on this time. He stunk it up.

[DubDee 25,866]

??

It was a mere jest