When does the coach start taking the blame?

[rufus 1,160]

My opinion is that I've never really sensed that his heart is in it...and I guess that has to impact in some way. My gut feeling on the Goodwin appointment is that it was done out of panick that we had few good prospects interested and Roos was worried he might get stuck here.

Anyhow, I also don't believe we are much better defensively than we were before. Yes our players ran back a bit harder last year and we basically minimized scoring by holding posession for longer and crowding the opposition forward line. However, my view is that being good defensively isn't so much about structures and tactics, but more about the individuals being smart and competitive in their one on one duals, and ALWAYS making it hard for their opponents to control the ball. Our players are not and for almost all of living mememory have not been prepared to compete in a way that makes them decent defensively.

It is the good one on one defensive efforts that result in turnovers that ultimately create rebound scoring opportunities. When these happen you tend to have players with some space on their opponents up field as their opponents had seperated looking to get involved offensively. It is not the instances where you get the ball back by having 15 of your players in the defensive 50.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,073]

I think is he is all about culture and system but I think the actual game strategy and skill lacks or at least may not get the right focus. I am hoping with Goodwin and McCartney that rounds it out. I seriously struggled to understand what we were trying to do when we had the ball against Essendon.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,799]

10 years of finals + a premiership at the Swans.

A near flawless off-season record over many years, in terms of players signings. That looks to continue this year with Lumumba, Garlett, Frost and Newton.

I reckon he knows what he's doing even if a few restless Demonlanders don't. It's probably not that easy to turn the Neeld-era team into one that wins games every week. Have some faith.

[mo64 5,842]

And you are basing that on a few pre-season games?

Turn it up.

Nope. based on the 2nd half of last year, and the match sims that I've seen at training. This team struggles when the opposition gain any momentum, and I believe it's due to the players not having the confidence to take the game on, because we have a risk aversion game plan. Even when we have momentum, it rarely impacts on the scoreboard, because once again, it's all about retaining possession.

You may not like him, but Brereton made a good point during the Freo game, about us not taking risks with our forward entries.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Melbourne are too slow to pull the trigger going forward, first instinct is sideways and backwards. I hope this isn't a result of the coaching.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Nope. based on the 2nd half of last year, and the match sims that I've seen at training. This team struggles when the opposition gain any momentum, and I believe it's due to the players not having the confidence to take the game on, because we have a risk aversion game plan. Even when we have momentum, it rarely impacts on the scoreboard, because once again, it's all about retaining possession.

You may not like him, but Brereton made a good point during the Freo game, about us not taking risks with our forward entries.

The second half of last year was a struggle, true, but basing it off match sims is a big stretch.

We don't take risks because, right now, we don't have the capacity to do it. The good teams can, but we can't... yet. In my opinion Roos sees the need to retain possession because, as a unit, we aren't good enough to stop the opposition just yet.

Blaming Roos and the gameplan is a knee jerk reaction of epic proportions. We are coming from so far back that's ridiculous. Roos is here to consolidate the list, teach them how to play football and lay the foundation. Goodwin will be the man to reap those rewards.

[dazzledavey36 54,043]

This pre season is probably the first time where i have questioned the selection panel. Why we continue to play Mckenzie Bail and Matt Jones in all 3 games is baffling to be honest. And i know Mckenzie was subbed the whole game but these three are not our future.

I question why Viv Michie was subbed for only one qtr against the doggies then dropped this week after he was our number 1 tackler against Freo. Should have persisted more with him instead of the likes of Bail and Mckenzie.

Why did Dean Kent have to play at Casey this week when realistically he should have come straight in for Bail. Kent showed promises against Freo and Bail did absolutely nothing in all 3 games.

It also wouldn't have seriously hurt to give Brayshaw a taste against Essendon then spend the next 5 weeks at Casey. Atleast it would give him that extra drive to really break into the senior side. I think Roos and alot of supporters are Gun shy in just giving a kid a run. Just shows Roos is still leaning on the past where we undeveloped our kids and not willing to back his developing team.

This current game plan does not suit our playing list at the moment. Still willing to give it time but.

[mo64 5,842]

The second half of last year was a struggle, true, but basing it off match sims is a big stretch.

We don't take risks because, right now, we don't have the capacity to do it. The good teams can, but we can't... yet. In my opinion Roos sees the need to retain possession because, as a unit, we aren't good enough to stop the opposition just yet.

Blaming Roos and the gameplan is a knee jerk reaction of epic proportions. We are coming from so far back that's ridiculous. Roos is here to consolidate the list, teach them how to play football and lay the foundation. Goodwin will be the man to reap those rewards.

Match sims tell you how the team structures up, and what options the players are instructed to take.

[rpfc 28,211]

Last year was a success relative to the nonsense before it - just look at the numbers in my sig.

This year hasn't started yet - I was never very bullish about this season because our best talents are far too young to be taking us up the ladder.

With that said - the mindset of the team is worrying when we win the contested and uncontested footy but have fewer forward entries - that makes me think blokes don't trust themselves and each other and that is what coaches get paid to instil.

Let's see how we go...

[Ethan Tremblay 30,782]

He inherited a team full of sub standard players.

Let him coach for more than one season.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Ethan Tremblay

[Coq au vin 755]

This pre season is probably the first time where i have questioned the selection panel. Why we continue to play Mckenzie Bail and Matt Jones in all 3 games is baffling to be honest. And i know Mckenzie was subbed the whole game but these three are not our future.

I question why Viv Michie was subbed for only one qtr against the doggies then dropped this week after he was our number 1 tackler against Freo. Should have persisted more with him instead of the likes of Bail and Mckenzie.

Why did Dean Kent have to play at Casey this week when realistically he should have come straight in for Bail. Kent showed promises against Freo and Bail did absolutely nothing in all 3 games.

It also wouldn't have seriously hurt to give Brayshaw a taste against Essendon then spend the next 5 weeks at Casey. Atleast it would give him that extra drive to really break into the senior side. I think Roos and alot of supporters are Gun shy in just giving a kid a run. Just shows Roos is still leaning on the past where we undeveloped our kids and not willing to back his developing team. Maybe he's giving Bail, McKenzie and Jones their last chance in the games that don't count. Hopefully theyve shown that they need to be in the VFL and delisted ASAP.

This current game plan does not suit our playing list at the moment. Still willing to give it time but.

[Coq au vin 755]

Maybe he was giving Jones, Bail, McKenzie and some others (Gawn and Grimes for example) their last chance in games that don't count. Hopefully they've shown they need to be in the VFL and delisted at year's end.

[hardtack 10,500]

Maybe he was giving Jones, Bail, McKenzie and some others (Gawn and Grimes for example) their last chance in games that don't count. Hopefully they've shown they need to be in the VFL and delisted at year's end.

This is an attitude I have never quite understood. Why would anyone ever "hope" that our players will be delisted?

[sue 9,096]

Maybe he was giving Jones, Bail, McKenzie and some others (Gawn and Grimes for example) their last chance in games that don't count......

I think this is quite likely (though I don't agree with your list and 'last' may be an exaggeration). As for DD36 comment about Viv Michie, perhaps Roos is happy with him and didn't feel he needed much match practice. Frankly I have no idea, but I'd back Roos' record over everyone here. (That is not to say I don't think posters should express their opinions.)

[praha 11,226]

I posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant here.

Earlier in the preseason I was shouted down when I questioned Roos and his coaching tactics but I've seen very little in the practice games that leads me to believe Roos knows how to coach a team to kick goals. It's well documented that he reduced the scores against us last year and it's now better known that we kicked the lowest average score for years. From memory we never kicked 100 points last year and scored 6 goals or less 6 times. That's pathetic however you slice it. Like everyone I hoped that with the inclusion of Hogan and Garlett, the introduction of some new mids and a year under their belt we'd see a significant improvement in our scoring capacity.

My impression is that most teams are now concentrating on fast ball movement to break zoning and the press and that this started in the middle of last year. Teams such as Richmond and Carlton who had shocking first half years in 2014 improved dramatically when they started to move the ball quicker. Brisbane punched above their weight last year to the surprise of many and they relied on fast ball movement.

The most disappointing feature of our play this preseason has been the lack of any dare. We stop, look, hesitate, kick backwards and allow the opposition to zone back and make scoring difficult. So far I'd have to say that Roos has failed to teach us to kick goals even with Hogan and Garlett added to our attack.

And just for the record this is not new to Roos. He won a premiership based on stoppage work and defense despite having a forward line containing Goodes, Hall, O'Laughlin, Davis and O'Keeffe. I just wonder if he is capable of changing his mind set. I can't help but believe we are much better than we are showing.

One of the questions is "can Roos teach a team how to kick goals". I wondered from the day he was employed. I wondered if his time out of the game had left him behind. We'll find out this year.

It's actually very simple: it's a lot easier to kick goals than it is to defend from them.

The team's problem has never been actually kicking goals: it's transition, countering transition, and being able to transition out of defense.

During the Bailey years, we had no problem scoring, but we had major problems defending and transition *out of defense*. Games against Hawthorn and Carlton in 2011 stand out for me and I remember them well: they knew exactly how to beat Melbourne, and that was simply zone OFFENSIVELY rather than DEFENSIVELY. Keep the ball in your forward line because Melbourne simply cannot transition. Transition is all about your efficiency to both defend the goals as well as effectively get the ball moving forward coming out of defense.

This team now continues to struggle in this regard. You can teach an attacking structure all you like as Bailey did, but if you can't defend (which includes transition), it's pointless focusing on attack.

Neeld, for as bad as he was, acknowledged this straight away: the team simply did not run both ways. It could defend hard, but it couldn't run hard offensively and therefore the transition broke down. That problem was particularly evident last season: we were great defensively but simply were clueless going forward. Transition goes hand in hand with a good defense, and it requires ALL players to buy in. Roos made this comment on Friday.

If you win the ball out of the middle and go forward, that's easy to score. But we haven't had a great midfield, and if we lose it out of either the middle, or when we go forward, it's very clear that the opposition SMASHES us in transition. Essendon did this time and time again on Friday, and it happened often last year.

Roos is ultimately trying to build a good defensive team. If your defense is disciplined and structured, it has a chain reaction on the rest of the pitch. It's the same in every team sport particularly in basketball, if you can defend well and transition effectively out of defense, you'll be hard to beat.

This team is unfortunately filled with too many plebs. If you can't see how much the team has improved on the transitioning and defensive side, you haven't been paying attention. But when you have guys that can't kick or have a low football IQ, what else can the coach do?

Ultimately, this team does a mixture of really good, exciting things, with really, really dumb things. Viney is an example: he doesn't play to his strengths and it hurts the team. Do you honestly think Roos is going to say to him, "Hey Jack, stop trying!" These are grown men and sometimes they need to realise and change the way they play.

Forgot about attack. If you perfect your defensive structure and transition, the goals will come easily. Defense comes before attack. Always.

[P-man 13,366]

Let's be clear that whatever perceptions people have of Roos' coaching style, he is no mug. He sees what the fans see. He will know that last season saw us become the lowest scoring team since Adam was a lad.

He has been more than clear about the defensive focus last year, and that this year should see improvement in terms of two way running and impacting the scoreboard. Whilst there still appears to be an over emphasis on possession, at various stages during the pre-season, we've seen a greater readiness to be more direct and attack through the corridor. The forward line has also been partially addressed, personnel wise.

The biggest problem as I see it remains between the ears of the players. This was Neeld's greatest challenge and it remains Roos' greatest challenge. When you are always second guessing yourself, you can't succeed in any sport. Why do Lumumba and Garlett look like superstars in this team? They back themselves. Therefore, they stand out. God help us if it remains a significant issue by the time Goodwin is coach. Unfortunately it seems to be baby steps in that regard.

I'm nervous but quietly confident that the team will improve this year. All it will take is a run of two or three wins, and hopefully, finally, some genuine belief will filter through.

[dazzledavey36 54,043]

I think this is quite likely (though I don't agree with your list and 'last' may be an exaggeration). As for DD36 comment about Viv Michie, perhaps Roos is happy with him and didn't feel he needed much match practice. Frankly I have no idea, but I'd back Roos' record over everyone here. (That is not to say I don't think posters should express their opinions.)

If he didn't need match practice then why did he play at Casey?

He needs all the match practice and AFL exposure he can get.

[1858 285]

My impression is that most teams are now concentrating on fast ball movement to break zoning and the press and that this started in the middle of last year. Teams such as Richmond and Carlton who had shocking first half years in 2014 improved dramatically when they started to move the ball quicker. Brisbane punched above their weight last year to the surprise of many and they relied on fast ball movement.

The most disappointing feature of our play this preseason has been the lack of any dare. We stop, look, hesitate, kick backwards and allow the opposition to zone back and make scoring difficult. So far I'd have to say that Roos has failed to teach us to kick goals even with Hogan and Garlett added to our attack.

One of the questions is "can Roos teach a team how to kick goals". I wondered from the day he was employed. I wondered if his time out of the game had left him behind. We'll find out this year.

Roos has stated that we need to learn to attack more and conceded we probably over did the defensive side of things last year (ie went for too long in the season) but I agree with many of your points. My main concern with our style of play on top of your observations is the amount of energy we use up in switching and maintaining possesion in the back half. Last year there were games where we ran ourselves ragged by half time.

We need to improve our scoreboard return for the amount of effort we put in. All opposition teams have to do is zone and wait for a disposal error and if we don't turn it over we spend more energy in cleaning up the mess.

We have a whole season ahead of us so I'm not going to predict how it will pan out at this stage but we need a fundamental shift IMO in the way we play or we're just going to defeat ourselves in most games. I want simpler and more direct football and I think the players need that as well - time will tell.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

I think Roos main focus should be structures, skills and defensive foundations.

Those are solid investments for our future. I think Roos is doing 2 out of 3. But our skills need work.

He is doing a great job Roosy, it isn't easy to coach a side of players who aren't up to the required level.

It is Roos job to get these guys to that level, but it is going to take some time. Be patient.

Edited March 22, 2015 by KingDingAling

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,286]

- Last year we won four games but led in the last qtr in another 6-7 including twice against Port.

- Roos inherited a rabble, to suggest his heart is not in it is crap, if that were the case why did he sign for the third year? Having Goodwin on board gives us stability, something we haven't had in years. There will be a smooth transition between coaches rather then another one being sacked and the players not knowing who's going to coach them next. Can Goodwin coach? Who bloody knows, Hinkley was overlooked by several clubs before getting the gig at Port. I have more confidence now that McCartney is on board as I see him and Goodwin as more of a team then head coach/assistant.

- Without Roos there's a fair chance we wouldn't have recruited everyone that we have over the last two years.

- No doubt a large part Roos job description was to build the culture of the club from the ground up something that was always going to take a couple of years, I don't think we will see the full benefit of Roos work for a couple of years.

- With regards to the game plan you can only work with what you've got, many people on here continue to overrate the list. It was only a couple of weeks ago that many posters on here were ranting about our new found depth. What depth? Let's look at our forward line -

Hogan - effectively his first year.

Dawes - take away the leadership aspect and his bone crunching tackles and he's not bringing much to the table, then you can argue about the delivery into the forward line but to be fair he does drop some simple marks.

Watts - this is meant to be his brake out year. Here's bloody hoping.

Howe - for mine must play up forward. We now other options in defence plus if the other three are playing he could prove to be a difficult matchup for the opposition.

Garlett - we only just got him.

JKH - second year player who looks the goods.

Kent - third year player who looks the goods.

We can't count any of last years draftees as depth.

Add Howe, Vince, JKH ,(may of missed one) to the team and remove the dead wood and that's all we've got. We can't afford any injuries because our depth is non existent.

[Demon Disciple 11,978]

When he is coaching a team that he totally recruited, and has had the chance to develop them. When he isn't coaching people like Colin Garland and the like, and trying to deal with their years of incompetent coaching, poor development and shot confidence.

Paul Roos is still dealing with up to 8 years of total mismanagement of recruiting and player development. Look at Geelong. where they have guys like Enright, Bartel, Johnson and the like who lead there team on and off the field. We have nobody like that, because our recruiting and development has been so inept. That's why we have to recruit people like Lumumba, to get on and off field leadership and experience into our group.

Will we turn over our list big time again at the end of this season? Yes we will.

I totally agree with your take Bendigo Demon.

Roos has had 1 season as coach and 2 in the off-season. In that time he turned over half of the list. He still has 2 years as coach including 1 during the off-season. I don't expect the changes to the list be as numerous, but he still knows that much work still needs to be done.

I have 6 definite-delists come the end of the year (McKenzie, Spencer, Bail, Jones, Terlich and Fitzpatrick) - this is just my opinion. I have at least half a dozen more, that if they put in another poor year, could be on very thin ice.

That's 12 players out of 40, or 30% of the main list.

By the end of Paul Roos' tenure, he will have had enough time to move on the players that aren't up to it. As much as our list looks different now to when he first took over, Roos will ensure that it will look much different when he leaves, to where it is now.

Roos signed on for that extra 3rd year because he knew that it would take that long to start getting our club to head in the right direction. Anything less than that and we would yet again be in for another false dawn.

[dee-eee 231]

The goal loss to the Bullies at Etihad last year was the worst example of the ultra defensive Roos . Defending a miniscule lead mid last quarter , he stacked every player into our back half . The Dogs had unaccompanied players to clean up any rare forays and get their short game off and running . Ricciuto made the observation late in the Bombers game that "Melbourne has too many players behind the ball to score".

[grazman 7,391]

One of the questions is "can Roos teach a team how to kick goals". I wondered from the day he was employed. I wondered if his time out of the game had left him behind. We'll find out this year.

Next year the transition begins where you'll see Simon Goodwin assuming more responsibility. There's been a couple of occasions during the coverage with our NAB match against the Bombers that Roos was clearly bemused by some of the decision making taking place. I doubt its his intention to move the ball as slowly as we did after the first quarter, but its also symptomatic of our fragile psyche that he's mentioned more than once. I look at Colin Garland and now just think he's damaged goods, perhaps like Rivers and Co he might be better off in a new environment.

We have only 15 players left on our list from 2011. Excluding rookies, but including others that have been on the senior list and are no longer at the club a total of 32 players in the last 3 years have been turned over. Not hard to see why there's precious little continuity and why it takes so long to learn to play the way the coach wants them to. (familiarity more than anything else breeds confidence and many of our players simply don't have confidence in each other). I used to be an optimist, but I've stopped believing in miracles. I think perhaps our best performances will again be in the middle third of the year.

Edited March 22, 2015 by grazman

[T&W 38]

When he is coaching a team that he totally recruited, and has had the chance to develop them. When he isn't coaching people like Colin Garland and the like, and trying to deal with their years of incompetent coaching, poor development and shot confidence.

Paul Roos is still dealing with up to 8 years of total mismanagement of recruiting and player development. Look at Geelong. where they have guys like Enright, Bartel, Johnson and the like who lead there team on and off the field. We have nobody like that, because our recruiting and development has been so inept. That's why we have to recruit people like Lumumba, to get on and off field leadership and experience into our group.

Are we going to be better than we were last year? Yes.

Will we make the finals?- Not even close.

Will we turn over our list big time again at the end of this season? Yes we will.

It's impossible on sites like this, but we need to keep our expectations realistic. A top 10 finish would be a massive improvement for us.

Roos will never ever "totally recruit" a team at the MFC - he is only here 3 years. His role as a consummate media performer is to build & sell the foundations of a new culture. Sadly we are one team in the AFL that a pre-requite for a coach is the ability to perform in the media.

With all due respects Roos is dealing with a club that is massively under funded in comparative terms in the current AFL competition - hence this has led to poor recruiting and development decisions. You have to deal with the cause not the symptoms. Can I say that again - if you genuinely want change you have to deal with the cause not the symptoms.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,799]

Must say some of you are jumping ship pretty quick. 2014 was slightly below par on where we should have got IMO but was by no means a disastrous season. The first half of the year in particular was a huge improvement. 2015 hasn't even begun.

You'll all be calling Roos a genius again if we beat the Gold Coast.