Garry Lyon on FC

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

It may be the amount of time you spend with them!

we learn from each other.

[Redleg 37,891]

Watts has support on DL. I cannot recall a journalist ever sticking up for him.

Agree.

While I personally view him as a soft player, his skills are sublime and he will become more valuable as our personnel improves.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

While I agree Grundy is and will be the goods, why aren't you defending your potential "greatest player of all time"?

I came in here specifically looking for that, how disappointing.

[dl4e 5,608]

where in the media has watts been more maligned than this very site?

Well I would say big footy but thats an interpretation.

[McQueen 17,864]

I admire Natainuis courage when it's his time to go - no one can argue that point when compared to Watts. The void is as wide as the Grand Canyon. The noise amongst WCE supporters here in the west is the issue of him injuring his own team mates with sometimes complete disregard on how to approach some contests. I guess it's something he will get better at.

The general sentiment of the thread is spot on though. Overrated.

If the colour of his skin was white, there would hardly be the plaudits heaped on him so far. And that is in no way meant to be a racist remark.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Rubbish

As others have already pointed out, Watts has copped plenty on here

If you don't think there is a MASSIVE difference between the reality of the performances of Watts/NicNat and the way they are presented by the media you have rocks in your head, simple as that

and yes we get angry and frustrated by things that affect this club because we care about it, sorry about that

Sure he's copped plenty. But are we that blind by our own egos that we need to take pot-shots at a player like Nic Nat just because he's down on form? Who cares about what the media say? Who cares what others say? How about we just concentrate our energy on supporting Watts because he plays for the football team we all barrack for.

I'm not interested in the MASSIVE difference between the reality of the performances of each player versus what is spoken about etc. I have zero care factor.

I rate parts of both Nic Nat and Watts' games. I don't rate other parts. I am more interested in the continued improvement and development in Watts because he plays for us. I'm not going to laugh at Nic Nat being subbed off last week.

Edited April 15, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[Go the Biff 3,176]

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

I agree that Grundy has great potential but I reckon the kid needs help. He's being thrown to the wolves at the moment

The 'Pies went down that road with Josh Fraser. While Fraser accumulated 200 games, I think his output would have been greater had he been better managed in his early years

[jnrmac 19,128]

Here is another one close to our hearts.

How come a $1million pa player who struggles to hold his place gets no mention.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees!

I $uppo$e I could have a $tab at gue$$ing who you are $peaking about but I'll be $tuffed if I am going to $pell it out for everyone.....

[ManDee 7,091]

I $uppo$e I could have a $tab at gue$$ing who you are $peaking about but I'll be $tuffed if I am going to $pell it out for everyone.....

former #1 pick Mulders bytch.

There I said it.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ManDee

[dees189227 10,876]

Gary has been on Nic nats stats for awhile. I remember one stat where they discussed the most number of marks he had taken in a game and it was under 10.

Its true though he doesnt do a lot in a game Cox is way more better. Yes he does the flashy thing or two but he should be doing a lot more with the way commentators go on about him.

I watched him when we played them and noticed how lazy he is off the ball. He gives up chases easily and around the field doesnt man up. I know he had 10 possessions in the 1st quarter but after that he was quiet and I was very surprised when he got best on ground by some journos.

Watts is clever with what he does with the ball and is smart in one on one contests.

There is no way Nic is worth 1mill a year which is reportedly going to be his new contract.

They way I see it he hasnt helped WC do anything. He may have got an all australian but he hasnt helped them win a flag.

[ManDee 7,091]

If I was picking today between Tom Scully, Nic Naitanui, Mathew Kreuzer, Bryce Gibbs and Jack Watts (I know different drafts) i'd pick in order,

1 Jack Watts - Sublime skills his time is coming

2 Tom Scully - running machine

3 Mathew Kruezer - injury prone may never show his best

4 Bryce Gibbs - disinterested

5 Nic Naitanui - one trick pony not a smart footballer

and I don't rate Scully.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ManDee

[P-man 13,224]

Some pretty embarrassing comments about Natanui. He's a lot better than the picture being painted of him in this thread. He is carrying an injury, plain and simple.

You'd clearly take him ahead of Kreuzer ffs. Anyone who wouldn't is kidding themselves.

[Pates 9,537]

I think Gary's point was well made, NikNat is a great athletic talent but has failed to continue his progression since his AA year, and it should be pointed out that that AA selection was IMO a total crock. People point to his ability to impact contests without statistical influence, I take that as presence and occasional ability to win his own ball, but for someone with such high aerobic ability he doesn't do the basics enough.

Part of me still wishes we'd selected him instead of Watts but output suggests that it wasn't such a blunder as many in the media made it out to be. He can be a dominant ruckman, but I don't think he has once been a dominant player for a game, and fair play I don't think Watts has done that either.

He has always been one of the most over-rated players for me, Gary has finally pointed it out and surprise surprise people leap to NikNats defense.

[dazzledavey36 48,953]

As someone who has fijian heritage as myself and a supporter of all islanders in sport Nick Nat is very overated. What makes him look flashy is because of his incredible leap and palm tree style hair. NN is like all islanders and more built for rugby. Hence why he is so inconsistent in games. He doesn't have the endurance and aerobic capacity to run out full games. He is only good in bursts like a true rugby player. His All Australian year was a joke. Maric or Sam jacobs should have got the nod.

I am a massive massive fan of his for him for sure for putting my country of birth on the map but putting my footballing cap on we chose the right choice in Watts. Some people are still need to take of the rose coloured glasses and realize it takes more then flashy play to beckme a very good AFL player.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,518]

NicNat is definitely an overrated player. Let's not kid ourselves though, his ruckwork is outstanding, his athleticism breath-taking and his skill set a joy to watch. To say Jack Watts is better than him is MFC bias shining through. The gap between them isn't as big as the football world (media) would have you believe, but NikNat is better.

In my opinion Watts has been better than both Kreuzer and Scully, yet cops 10x the scrutiny.

[ManDee 7,091]

Some pretty embarrassing comments about Natanui. He's a lot better than the picture being painted of him in this thread. He is carrying an injury, plain and simple.

You'd clearly take him ahead of Kreuzer ffs. Anyone who wouldn't is kidding themselves.

Cannot remember NicNat playing a full game, agreed spectacular highlights, runs through packs but he is not a great footballer. looks like he has no idea of what to do half the time. He will have the longest lowlights reel of any current top pick. Next time we play them, spend some time and just watch him, he spends a lot of time looking lost. I am so glad we took Watts.

Compare some stats.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3107&tid2=19&pid2=3108&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

And to blow your socks off compare Nic Nat to Cameron Pederson who we want to send to Casey.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3552&tid2=19&pid2=3108&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

This season NicNat averages 6.8 effective disposals, 11 hitouts and 2 clangers per game. Overrated!

Edited April 15, 2014 by ManDee

[angrydee 842]

And now the overhypers are jumping on Kelly's bandwagon. Morons.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Some pretty embarrassing comments about Natanui. He's a lot better than the picture being painted of him in this thread. He is carrying an injury, plain and simple.

You'd clearly take him ahead of Kreuzer ffs. Anyone who wouldn't is kidding themselves.

We're not just talking about this year. He's never produced the game to back up the hype. He is eye-catching when he uses his supreme speed and power to burst through the melee and clear the ball, or leaps clean over his opponent to take a screamer, but he only does it once or twice a game. He's averaged 20 hitouts over his career which is nowhere near enough for a top ruck and he doesn't offer enough around the ground to warrant the praise heaped upon him. I freely admit he impacts contests with his 1 percenters, but again this is basically only at stoppages when what he should be doing is getting a clean hitout to one of his mids. He can have an impact on contest, but like so many of the maligned players on our list, he needs to do it consistently through the game, not just a few times before fading out again.

[ManDee 7,091]

We're not just talking about this year. He's never produced the game to back up the hype. He is eye-catching when he uses his supreme speed and power to burst through the melee and clear the ball, or leaps clean over his opponent to take a screamer, but he only does it once or twice a game. He's averaged 20 hitouts over his career which is nowhere near enough for a top ruck and he doesn't offer enough around the ground to warrant the praise heaped upon him. I freely admit he impacts contests with his 1 percenters, but again this is basically only at stoppages when what he should be doing is getting a clean hitout to one of his mids. He can have an impact on contest, but like so many of the maligned players on our list, he needs to do it consistently through the game, not just a few times before fading out again.

I am talking about this year, NicNat has played 4 games, at the moment over 4 games Pedo has outperformed him!

I love his highlights absolutely spectacular but If I were a WCE supporter I would want much much more.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,192]

This topic has all the trademarks of a Range Rover poll.

Over to you Rangey, wherever you may roam.

Where is RR? He is madly in love with Nic Nat and worships him. Must be the dreadlocks! NN is an athlete but lacks real football skills. I have watched him over the years in Perth and didn't star even at WAFL level. Give me Jack Watts every time.

[45HG 1,539]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/eagles-should-axe-awful-naitanui-brad-hardie-20140414-zquof.html

Brad Hardie also sharing his piece of mind.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

Maybe i will, but one reason he is being thrown in the ruck is because he stands 202cm and weighs in at 103kg and is already physically able to compete in the ruck at a young age, which along with a good second effort seem his only real attributes. I was offering no comparison to our ruck stocks. Just commenting that he is hyped in the media and many people seem to think he is the second coming of Simon Madden when in fact his stats say that this year he is the worst performed first ruckman in the competion to date and last year he was reasonably performed but no star. I suppose im wondering, aside from his imposing physical credentials and pompom hairstyle, what is so good about him? He rarely wins more hitouts than his opponent, has kicked 1 goal in 11 games and has committed 36 clangers and taken only 23 marks. Where he seems to be very good is as a tackler post ruckwork. Again, not saying he will not be good, but dont see why he is so acclaimed at the moment and i would be very surprised if Witts doesnt supplant him in the upcoming weeks,

[Return to Glory 7,749]

Not just the media. Also the All-Australian team selectors. How he got chosen last year is beyond my comprehension.

Didn't know that. sheesh.

[Older demon 2,175]

As they reach the twilight of their careers we should reflect on the 3 guys who have spoilt it for everyone since their super draft of 2001. Hodge, Ball & Judd set an expectation that has not been matched since and that is that a top ten draft pick guarantees a champion. It just doesn't happen anymore. Of that draft top 20 only Hale (7) Bartel (8) Dal Santo (13) and Kelly (17) are still running around and have made a name for themselves, didn't Geelong do well out of it. Subsequent drafts maybe produce one of this calibre in the top 10 and it is just that 2001 has created a false expectation. Oh and Dane Swan went at pick 59

[DeeSpencer 23,256]

If I was picking today between Tom Scully, Nic Naitanui, Mathew Kreuzer, Bryce Gibbs and Jack Watts (I know different drafts) i'd pick in order,

1 Jack Watts - Sublime skills his time is coming

2 Tom Scully - running machine

3 Mathew Kruezer - injury prone may never show his best

4 Bryce Gibbs - disinterested

5 Nic Naitanui - one trick pony not a smart footballer

and I don't rate Scully.

Pretty much backwards to my rating.

1. Nic Nat, despite current injury struggles he's definitely a top 5 ruck just waiting to break free. He's only one year older than Max Gawn FFS! Once he gets the body right and Cox goes he'll get to ruck full time and his clean hit outs and great stoppage play with shine. He's won games by brilliant play, who else on this list has done that?

2. Gibbs, yeah he's a bit lazy but he's also a 25 touch midfielder who can kick goals and use the ball well

3. Watts - a younger even softer and lazier version of Gibbs, hopefully he lifts soon, signs are slowly positive

4. Kreuzer - too slow forward, too short ruck, not physical, but at least he's a reasonable player even if he'd be anonymous as a late round pick

5. Scully - no weapons (doesn't use his endurance for benefit), can't kick, can't win the ball inside, pretty much a poor mans Rohan Bail