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For those who can get past the paywall, article is here: VINEY REVEALS WHY HE TURNED DOWN A MOVE TO THE CATS A few choice bits from the article: One of the main reasons he re-signed was his faith in Goodwin. Did have his father's blessing to leave if that was what he chose, but he felt he would be abandoning the club and Goodwin if he left. He did, for a time, seriously consider the offer that was on the table from the Cats. Losing the captaincy stung at first, but that is well and truly in the past. Really believes in the vision of the club moving forward, but he knows we must deliver on the promise. Happy to provide more, or direct quotes, if you want them. Happy to PM the article if you want it as well. Cheers.

Not sure why we need a new thread just for this, but you can read the article for free here: Jack Viney on his decision to turn down Geelong and how he feels about the captaincy call

A fellow long time Demon supporter told me Hassa turned 80 on Wednesday. What a great player he was! Premiership player, club captain, state representative, member of The Galahs and MFC team of the century. Then, later in his career, after success as a playing coach in the West he returned to the club in administration. As an aside, why did our players go to WA? Big Bob Johnson and dashing half back also left us with plenty of games left in them, as did Hassa. Were we so arrogant in those days we'd say "we don't need you, we'll win without you?" Does anyone remember Hassa's goal from the boundary at Glenferrie Oval to put Hawthorn out of the 4? A Hawthorn mate still claims it was a point! Many happy returns Hassa!

I think this is absolute rubbish @Lucifer's Hero. He's been a captain of the club. He's still VC and a leader. Goodwin, Gawn and the club make that point about him all the time. He's 26, much of our list is younger than that. There's nothing at all wrong with what he's said here and I think it's horribly unfair to suggest he has tickets on himself. The last sentence is what the journalist wrote, all Viney said was "something really special". Maybe that's a plea to his teammates to stay, not a crack at them. His actual quote: “We have all got to sacrifice a little bit to work well together because there are only so many positions in the midfield,” “If we can rotate through and work well as a unit, there is so much talent. “It can be something really special and massive advantage for us.” Doesn't sound like he's having a crack. Sounds accurate, for one, and a sign that he understands that the midfielders (him included) need to "sacrifice" and "work well as a unit".

I think you're looking for problems. When he speaks of players being unselfish and working as a unit I read it as he includes himself in that. There is no hint of him taking pot shots at others by my reading. I did like the fact that he sounds impatient for success, and there's no doubt the midfield is taking some management and players, like Oliver did somewhat this year, need to refine how they play. The main take away for me is that stuff we heard this year from some posters about how Goodwin had lost the players is BS so far as this leader is concerned. Viney's comments about being a leader are also significant for me because the way he spoke at the BnF to those who did not get a game, including them and recognising them was a genuine mark of leadership. I did not want to lose him and I am happier now that he stayed given how committed he sounds.

YUP great example for kids, love to watch the local kids now, seeing young players shove there knees into other kids necks.. yeah that's fine isn't it AFL, while players get suspended for bumps in play

I am still hoping for a Power v Lions GF. Could relax and watch the game without giving a damn.

[censored] me.... seriously. Upset he finished 5th so I'll sook it up. I must be getting old, but that is weak as [censored].

From what I've heard there is still potential for TMac to be traded if a club comes to the party with a deal that takes majority or all of his salary. His salary being around the 750k mark is what's stopping deals flowing. Plenty of interest in the player. If no club is willing to take on that salary, then he'll be staying and hoping to get his body leaner and back on track after being mis-managed the past two years.

I don’t know why it’s so outrageous for shareholders to want to know what is happening with the business they’re investing in. The club is asking me to fork $600+ in a very tough economy. The least they could do is tell me they’re not happy with constantly being a mediocre performer and that they’re trying to change things to improve performance. It’s what I would expect any entity reliant so heavily on investor dollars to do. Those who constantly put down members who want to know what’s going on and the plan the club has to improve is bewildering. Why shouldn’t we be entitled to the plans the club has in place? Or are we meant to be happy with a 56 year lack of success?

Earlier in the year after the Suns v Richmond game, Hardwick in his press conference defended his player/team, the comment was along the lines off, the best teams play on the edge and often cross it that is what it takes to be a good side. Was thinking great I have 10 kids in my junior side that follow Richmond and they will go out and belt kids now. The arrogance of Richmond is really getting off the charts. They have every right but being humble in victory earns you a lot of respect. That is what example we want to set.

I will say this now, Oliver's next deal will be his biggest and talk if salary cuts have already begun. I believe there are rumours floating around and it's more than likely coming from his camp. I don't believe there's anything to the rumours. I believe it's step 1 in getting the best deal for his client. This happens every year at every club

Richmond are big $$$$ generators for HQ. Nothing else needs mentioning.

I'm not watching the game but watched Richmond/Lions last week with Daisy Pearce doing special comments. She's got 'em all covered. Insiteful and coherant.

I'm ok with Jack staying, not so much the five years. But does he have tickets on himself: “...and one of my reasons for staying is because he [Goodwin] needs support...I’m one of the people who really believes in his vision, and he needs some strong characters to stand up beside him. I feel like if I was to head somewhere else and end my time at the club, then I would be hanging him out to dry a bit. So he is saying there are those at the club that don't believe in Goodwin's vision and don't stand up beside him? Worrying. Goodwin has coaches, managers, a captain and other leaders yet it reads like Jack is the one that is propping Goodwin up! And, is this a crack at his team mates: "...Viney says the Demons’ midfield unit can be “something really special” if they play with a more selfless attitude."

Trivia time. Zac Dawson was named, alongside Lenny Hayes,as St Kilda's "Player of the Finals' in 2010. He was also a pillar of the St Kilda 2009 finals run, as well as being highly regarded in finals at Fremantle, including "Player of the Finals' in 2014. That's Zac Dawson. The unco, dour, skinny, tall defender who 'never looked like it' and who nobody really rated even AFTER he was given these nods. I'm far from writing off Oscar McDonald and people really need to accept that the modern last-line-of-defence player is probably the hardest to judge from outside the club, especially on television. I've said before that I would accept it comfortably if he was traded, but I hate that people talk such rubbish about him, and I wouldn't be troubled at all if he stayed on our list.

Never understood why we persisted for so long with him as our number one or two key post and whilst I obviously don't rate him, it's hard not to show empathy for how he must feel walking on and off the field sometimes given the amount of abuse he cops. I'm not sure how I'd handle that level scrutiny week-in-week-out. What angers me is that the club to some degree allowed this to happen far too often and for too long. It's a complete mismanagement of a young player, not dissimilar to the way we developed Watts early days. To my mind and the mind of many others, Oscar was not only not playing to the level early days, but his body was completely underdeveloped. Yet we persisted with him weekly in the hope it'd fast track him which just simply didn't happen. I'm not sure any Melbourne supporter can honestly say he improved and developed in the manner young key position players should over the course of his career to date? Can they? It's the clubs fault as much as it is his own and now we're trading him. Sometimes it's almost as if our club is run by nuffies. I can't imagine any other side in the AFL who would play such an underdeveloped key position player as a number one key defender for as long as we did. Especially one who had so many weaknesses to work on from both a footballing and physical point of view.

Don't the players have to take the ownership along with the coaches and club to bring success. I hate seeing statements like"we need success or Oliver will leave" how about Oliver becomes that match winner when it matters like against Fremantle and Sydney. Our good players go missing when it matters, they turn the ball over at critical times of he match and in Oliver's we need to see him play more games like the one I think V North when he was Judd like bursting away from the contest, taking the game on and kicking the football, that is the Oliver we need not the one that get 20 1m flick handballs per game. On trade targets, we need to sound out Geelongs Ratugolea, if we are going to lose Preuss this guy is idea 2nd our 3rd tall Foward/Ruck. He would slot at CHF and work well with Jackson and Weiderman. He would be upset at Geelong and now rumours they are going hard for Cameron just pushes him further down the chain.

l don't buy that Jack was played too early and it hampered his development line. Luke Jackson competes fine in his 1st year and played earlier than watts. Jack just didn't have the work ethic, grit and competitiveness but he did have amazing talent. Jack will continue to drift through life in my opinion, hopefully staying happy and safe

Suns, Saints and Blues were into Watts through 2015 and Hawks in the 2016 post season. He stayed loyal. Says more than fuc@&&))ts like Scully who walked out as soon as he could.

Stephen Oliver might not be the only Oliver messing around with Carlton. He's not happy. But I'll bet my first born he starts pre season at Gosch's

I'm wondering if old mate @Lampers mis-read Tmac for Trac?

Just get him ... please.

No problem, i will do it for both of us.

How Darcy Moore is an All Australian is beyond me. He’s been horrific. Had 4 clear turnovers. Only ever plays well when given free range and no pressure. May is 4 times the player he is.

No idea what you said and it’s been said before but it’s not free speech on here when the owners of the site can be taken to court for what is posted here. It’s not the Wild West of that putrid thing facebook or twitter. Demonland is an incredible place for us to talk rubbish and pontificate but it can no longer go into some areas. Grow up or go start your own site.

WB - If it's not too much trouble I'd love you to PM me the article. I just rushed up to the shop to buy the HS only to get home and discover it's in tomorrow's edition.

Good post Dee-Nee. What a great player. Could play centre, half forward or as a rover-great captain. Yes I remember that goal-did he actually mark that ball? I seem to remember it was a line ball decision and the umpire might not have had a good view? It was great kick though.

I don't think anyone is saying that Oliver will leave this year ET. He's contracted for another year. But, he's clearly disgruntled and not happy within the club. What that reason be, who knows? I'm not in the belief that its over a stupid BnF placing ( though its an utter joke Viney finished higher then him). I just think he's not happy due to the lack of success of the club and he's getting impatient. What's even more concerning is that @Chook in Perth has confirmed that this is clearly the case right now that we have one of the best players this club has seen come through our doors, is not happy. If we have another year of missing finals then I would not be surprised if he requests a trade.

True but it's better than paying Brad Hill $900k/year

There's no definitve eveidence or patterns on the benefits, or not, to being a top coach to playing in earlier premierships. For every Barassi, there's a Hafey for example (or maybe a Fagan). Being a former elite player can help though. e.g. Phil Jackson in the NBA. Yze is an AA player. Some at Adelaide rate Goodwin as the Crows best to date skipper also. He definitely has pedigree - just not yet in coaching and off-field leadership. You last point is a good one. The Age reports Yze, apart from strategy, has also been gaolkicking coach,, line coach, and a development coach under the greatest modern coach in our times. A real coup to get him into what I consider our glaring FD weaknesses (albeit defence is now sorted ).

No, if we'd handled our recruitment and list development better, it'd be a win. But we didn't. I was banging on about how we'd be going nowhere with Oscar as our number 1 key defender well before we brought in Lever let alone May. I was howled down constantly by the same supporters who think every Melbourne player will magically make the grade one day. And those including @binmanwho refuse to see glaringly obvious weaknesses in a players game. Why it's taken this long for the club to realise Oscar in not the answer is one of the great mysteries of life itself. I suggested numerous times over that period that there were cheap options who could fill the key defender role for us and provide us with far more stability than what Frost and Oscar were providing. Collins for example, who has since made his way to Gold Coast for chips was one player I suggested we target before loading up on May. Goodwin has no [censored] idea. He has no idea how to develop a system that enables individuals to play to their strengths. Lever is the perfect example. How on earth was he expected to play the way did at Adelaide when he had Frost and Oscar as support? We waited far too long to recruit a big bodied defender. Yeh, we have an amazing one now, but look at every else that needs addressing? We waited until last year to get a quality small pressure forward in Pickett. Why? Butler was there a year earlier. We play Brayshaw on a wing for three years. Dom Tyson. Nathan Jones. Alex Neal Bullen kicks around on a forward flank year after year doing diddly squat. It's enough. The difference between me and many supporters on here is that I now have little patience with the club and it's handlings of these types of things. I understand that may differ from you as you are one of the happy-go-luckies who isn't too fussed either way, as long as we're 'trying'. There's something wrong with the club. Look at Brisbane for [censored] sake. They're now miles ahead of us due to smart and considered decisions across all lines of their club, year upon year since Fagen took over. We are supposed to be ahead of these sides. People need to wake up. Goodwin has made a mess and has one off-season to fix it.

I went to school and played under age football with a guy who was at least 1 or 2 levels better than anyone else in the team. He was about 10x better than me. He went to a successful VFL club and played 2 or 3 seasons in the U19s and Reserves before moving to a successful football career at a strong club in a rated regional league. I know how good he was and he couldn't make it at the top level. I never call AFL players spuds for that reason.

FWIW, based on that article that's been syndicated across a number of other mast heads the Cripps rumour might have legs (though whether it happens this year or next, if at all is yet to be seen) - although with Carlton making a play for De Goey, it seems they seem to have a large amount of room in their TPP to accomodate Williams, Saad and an even bigger fish. I also accept according to some reputable posters that Oliver might not be happy ATM, but I agree with you 100% the two aren't linked. There's no way anyone at the club would even entertain a conversation about trading Clarrie.-

Thanks Pickett!! You’ve put us all at ease putting that to bed.

He’s our best player period and would be the last player on our list to trade. So if he’s not happy the club needs to make him happy

I don't understand the concept:' Its finals time. There’ll be no suspension nor should there be.' So, because it's a final, anything goes. That is codswallop bean curd crapola.

Cotchin is a true Sniper. The new Velvet Sledgehammer Lynch is just a bully who will cop it....

lynch has always been a bit of a [censored] cotchin is the cleanest dirty player seen in decades since hawks were at their unsociable best

I would argue Langdon had a bigger impact than Oliver this year and was not surprised by his higher B&F finish (Viney I am less confident though). Oliver seems to be at that age where he is impatient and frustrated but has not recognised he is coming into the years where he should not be following the pack but leading the way and dragging others along with him. We are coming into the year where this should be Oliver, Trac and Lever’s team, they should be setting not following the culture. They are not the kids anymore they should be showing what is the expected levels of training, focus, game day performance, not just theirs but those around them. The penny dropped for Trac (who seemed just as frustrated a year ago) and I suspect the penny will drop for Oliver in 2021. I would under no circumstances trade him this year whether he openly states he wants out or not.

The Cripps rumour is pure BF rubbish. Fremantle fans fantasying (and joking) about a Cripps and Fyfe duo and winning next years GF. Oliver isn’t going anywhere either. People clearly enjoy spreading rubbish rumours, carry on.

You need to have a look at their lists though and ask who would be paying big money to based on their output pre this year? StKilda do not have any superstars in my view and have paid overs to balance their side. At some point they will need to pay King, Clark and Gresham what they are worth as they become the players you would expect. Brisbane paid for Cameron and Neale and likely have Andrews and McCluggage on increasing deals based on worth but where else on their list would be splashing big cash? Carlton up to this year you would pay Cripps plenty but the rest have been good players in decline or unfulfilled talent with low to middling salaries. They have now spent ridiculous overs on flashy bit players in McGovern and Martin and appear to be paying overs for Williams and Saad. They have locked away Weitering now but based on improvement and they will need big deals for Walsh, McKay but not much else for the rest (heaven forbid Curnow gets fit and reaches potential). We are rightfully paying top money for Trac, Gawn, Oliver, May and Langdon but likely have too much money tied up in Lever (unless we front loaded), Tom and possibly Brayshaw and Harmes (granted maybe deal length balanced amount) based on output. We clearly wanted to prioritise Viney over the open market. My assumption on player payments is we have not got the balance right between paying the top 8-10 what they deserve (a lot) and balancing the payments on role players and up and coming talent. I think Brisbane have got it the most right but would much prefer out strategy than StKilda and particularly Carlton which I think will burn them when they need to put the finishing touches on their list.

Bombers imploding, and now North imploding: Will Rhys Shaw be coaching again? Don't think so. Wish him good health though Longbow called crisis meeting of board earlier in the year A prodigal son is reluctant to be Kangas senior coach in 2021. Will need help like we had. Could all be just a Roos though. North are not Scott free of outstanding coaching payments. Hard to pay out two senior coaches and have $ for another Players given up, assistants given up. The clean out continues. Armafio trying to call the shots, but hasn't earnt the right yet. Pissing many off. North are sliding so far south, AFL thinks they might need a better map of Tassie in the next couple of years. It will take an almighty effort for them to turn around. They are truly in the [censored] hole

Settle down.. It hasn't been confirmed that is the case. I've known Oliver since his days when we spent time together at the bushies and he is a competitive animal where all he cares about is winning games and having succes. The individual stuff is something that I believe was not part of his love for the game. He's probably getting restless and frustrated with his time at the Dees. In his 5 years at the club he's played finals once. He has every right to feel frustrated at the club.

Still married?

What lesson? We’ll end up giving up the same pick to get Pickett as the pick we used on Pickett. A similar situation occurred when we traded up a year for Weid. Trading Hogan for May worked beautifully. If it was pick 10 not pick 6 it would’ve been seen as a huge win. The only time we’ve truly given up first rounders was for Lever and they weren’t the true high picks. We covered that off with getting plenty of 2nd rounders. We should aim to have a nice 2nd rounder and other useful picks this year. If you aren’t excited for Sparrow, JJ, Spargo, Fritsch and Petty then we just haven’t recruited well enough. I’m thinking there’s a bit of talent there we might see shine next year

Jack Watts - what a lad? Still a young bloke who enjoys life. He never had the steel to take his game to the top level. Always thought footy was secondary. Jack loves golf and hanging out with family and friends. And mostly his mates from school and footy. He was a good player. That’s not to be questioned. His goalkicking was elite. He had such talent. Perhaps unfulfilled certainly. He is welcome back at Demonville any day. Perhaps a future MC for club events.

No mail. I try not to speculate. Like i say every year though - mail that doesn't come to fruition is still mail. Things change by the hour.

We're interested in Brown, but several things need to happen for a trade to happen. Salary cap is our main enemy at the moment. We were hoping to get TMac off the books, as apparently we're tight and need to free up some cash in the coming years to hold onto our elite core of Oliver, Trac etc. If we can fit Brown in, we're keen and have enquired already.