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I am absolutely sick of certain posters who continually want to put the boot in when there is no need or possible upside for doing so. FFS they have been delisted - there is nothing more that needs to be said. Especially about 2 players who have absolutely given 100% and have been so admired in the club for their attitude. So they didn’t make it. It wasn’t through the want of trying - and they certainly achieved so much more in their careers as AFL footballers then virtually all of us at Demonland, especially me. What I would have given to have played 40 games for the MFC. Most posters have been appreciative of their efforts and wished them well. As it should be. As for the other F wits, to use some of your own language, you are simply Demonland list cloggers, and we should get rid of you.

He played more AFL games than you big boy.

Couple of things. Firstly I want to know whether or not we were interested in acquiring his services over the trade period. If we were, then why did he nominate Carlton as his club of choice? As far as money goes, I find it extremely difficult to believe the demonland speculation that he was "asking too much". What, more than we could match? How could Carlton afford to pay Papley (who was reportedly asking for more than we could afford) and Martin on top of Patrick Cripps, McGovern, Curnow and their younger list of budding stars that'll be worth more and more as each year passes? Are there posters here suggesting we are much tighter than Carlton salary cap-wise? Even with Lever and May on larger sized contracts, the difference can't be that great given the quality of lists. Or does someone genuinely know? Martin is bonafide untapped talent. He can do things on a football field that others can only dream about. And in a sporting code that is now as turbulent and uncertain as ever year to year, I can't understand why we're not going hard for this guy. The whole idea that clubs need to 'bottom out' now is a myth. Nobody can predict injuries, attitude, the rise and fall of other sides. etc etc. Free agency and equalisation measures have forced change. Premierships are there to be won any given year now for sides who can make the top 8. We've been rebuilding for a [censored] eternity and I will be physically ill if I watch Carlton rise from the dust and overtake us next year due to being more aggressive, bold and ruthless as a club. I'm excited by next year without a doubt, but there's air of conservatism still associated with our club that makes me extremely uncomfortable. Goodwin talks ruthlessness non-stop and it's time to be ruthless in all areas as a club. We should be cutting Carlton's lunch by getting in Martin's ear and picking him up in the pre-season draft. As Goodwin says, "the game owes you nothing". Make it happen MFC.

Is this the same Jack Martin that begged and pleaded to be a Bomber this time last year? Unless there’s a clear threat that he’d sit out the season, or would be a toxic member of the playing group, just be a little ruthless and take him in the PSD. Even if he’ll only sign a 1 year contract. We need to further leverage what was a most unexpectedly disastrous season. We’ll got 2 top 10 picks. We’re getting a bottom 6 draw. Lets take advantage of pick 2 in the PSD!

I believe they both gave it all they had. Sadly they where both just short of being senior level players.

They lost actually. Straight down the other end for a goal. But you are not wrong. I downloaded the NAB League App and they have an excellent highlights section on most players which shows individual game involvements. Young isn't afraid of a contested posession. He positions himself well for the receive handball. That freak kick inside wasn't a one off, he regularly looks to make long passes into space. He consistently makes the right decision.Of course there are times where he stuffs it up, but they are few and far between. He is the captain of the Stingrays. I couldn't be more impressed by the highlights I watched. The other I went looking for was Weigtman and I was really not impressed at all.

The manner in which you frame most of your comments backs up my comment. Hibberd was an AA player whose form appears to have tailed off putting him clearly outside the top 100 players in the league. Your comment would have the uninformed observer believe that he was never an elite player which he clearly was. This is a fan forum and indeed you are entitled to say what you want and how you want within reason. You just seem to be going out of your way to antagonise - if that floats your boat, good for you!

Yesterday I had breakfast with a mate that has been part of an AFL club’s recruitment team for 10 years and due to him passing me info prior to the actual Draft, I would rather keep the Club confidential, however, let me assure you that this is one hell of a successful club. My mate’s role is purely Victorian based and focuses totally on the TAC, no other league. The bottom line is that he told me this Club had a major meeting last Saturday whereby all the TAC watchers met for a full day and compiled a mock Draft of Victorian TAC players. Whilst having to be a little guarded at this time of year, my mate told me that at Saturday’s meeting, Hayden Young was the almost totally unanimous choice as number 3 from the TAC. In fact, my mate scoffed at the thought of overlooking Young at 3 even after the interstate kids were factored in He was very strong in his praise of Kemp but didn’t want to elaborate too much about other players in the 5 to 10 range as this is where his Club would be selecting. He did however say that neither he or any of his other TAC watchers had Weightman in the first 12 and said he’d be highly surprised if any Club took him in the Top 10 after the interstaters were added in. Thought you might be interested.

From what I've heard, both boys were always 110% professional in the way they applied themselves, both on and off the field. From what I've observed, they were both just a few % off being consistent best 22 players at the top level. Both gave their all and you can't ask more than that! They can hold their heads high as they leave the Club and move on to new pastures. Now the MFC needs to nail the picks for players who will replace them on our list.

Realistically, out of our delistings and trades only one player was really best 22 and that is because of circumstance in Frost. So we clear out: Lewis, Maynard, Garlett, Stretch, JKH, Keilty, Smith, Walker &Frost and we Bring in 2 best 22 players in Tomlinson & Langdon, add that 2 top 10 picks and possibly a DFA then our list has improved significantly.

I'll never forget the three final quarter goals that JKH kicked against the Tigers in a NAB Cup game in 2014. First time I'd been excited at a Melbourne game for a few years and you could feel the change in attitude amongst supporters that night. No doubt having Paul Roos in the box helped but it was great to watch. I had high hopes for Stretch as well but, in the end, both of these guys just couldn't translate some of their VFL form into AFL form. Thanks for the contribution to the club fellas.

You are a one trick pony

Would you prefer sign language?

Hibbard is an All Australian defender. He might be past his best but he's better than your average player.

Good on both of them. Never heard a bad word uttered about either of them and they certainly got the most out of the talent that they have.

Shattered for both players. The delisting process is always one of the toughest times of the year. Both definitely deserve another chance somewhere, even under a rookie contract. Loved watching JKH's three goals against the Tigers as posted above! On that topic, here's a couple of iconic Billy moments, including his first kick/first goal against the Swans on debut and his brilliant running goal from our win against Hawthorn in 2016.

Here are those three goals. Still love watching the third goal on the run!

Hope the boys get a chance elsewhere. Thanks for your contribution and good luck in the future.

One thing that is extremely attractive about this guy's game is that he has genuine mongrel and is very combative from what I've seen. You don't always get that blend of qualities with half-back, silky left-footed types. Watching the bit of play in the lead up to his piercing switch kick which won Country the game, there's a hint of mongrel. He tackles a player holding the ball and proceeds to rub his head into the ground in an extremely aggressive manner. Nice half back flankers don't do that.

If we are upgrading a rookie, I'm hoping it is Lockhart. Looks far more likely than the others imo.

what a strange thing to say.

With this ninety-second highlight package effectively quindecupling my exposure to Young's kicking I'm willing to say that he probably possesses the greatest foot-skills of any known living individual on the planet. It's like geometric poetry (and I have a literary degree, so I should know). Seriously, this kid can kick. (Selected draft footage, obvious provisos, but designed to show capabilities); Young appears to present as a genuine triple-threat by foot: assessment, execution, and threat. Assessment: quick summation and selection of options: This takes extra-natural sporting ability and an instinctive awareness of surrounds (a la Clarry) combined with composure. Watts was considered one of our best kicks – but he was often quite slow to move it on. Hogan was similar. Young Young appears to weigh up and select the correct option at speed. Execution: skill and precision in hitting the target. Wow. A phenom. The ability of Young to alter the speed, trajectory and weighting of his kicks is next level. He can kick slow and fast and high and flat – or any combination thereof – and do so off a short-step or on the run. Combined with the above footy smarts, and confidence to back himself in, this is a huge huge weapon. Threat: penetration and play-making. Dude can kick 55-meters-plus, which is a decent start, especially with regard to the speed and weighting over that distance. He can also spot and execute the so-called ‘45 degree’ option. Melksham, our designated half-forward, can do this. May can kick flat and long, but mostly does so from deeper. Oliver is capable. Who else? Summary: All of the above, combined, is truly amazing – and fits exactly with what we want. I’m fairly convinced we let Frost go because we thought this bloke could slot in pretty soon. Oscar is a pretty safe kick but not remotely threatening, Petty doesn’t have the agility, and Frost (I love him) probably disrupted our game-plan. That’s all good – but what is Young like as an actual defender? I have no idea. But here are some of the words spoken about Young from well-known draft-watchers: ‘Has explosive speed’, ‘Young is a damaging half-back with great intercept marking.’ ‘Explosiveness from packs’, ‘Disciplined, checking his opponents tightly and providing them with few opportunities,’ And weaknesses? From Knightmare: ‘Sometimes too accountable.’ Not a bad knock at all.

A bit like picking Oliver at 3

Thanks guys, and good luck with your futures. It was not for lack of effort that you did not quite make it. Your application was flawless. Not everyone makes it in the cutthroat game at AFL level but you have played more games than (almost at least) anyone here. Listening to the clip of JKH v Tigers, Derwaaaynn was almost as orgasmic as Brooooceee used to get when Cyrrrilllll had the ball.

The AFL stats for Billy’s 47 games has his kicking efficiency in the elite class! So that disgusting ball drop must have worked most of the time.

Two of my favourite players ....perhaps because I saw them give their best so often for Casey. I have often been critical of the way they were played at Casey (inside mids mainly) which was obviously intended to build up their strength but it did little to build their skills in the break away area. Would they have made it under different circumstances. Probably not but few players have emerged from what has been a dominant VFL team. Perhaps it's time to have a look at that area. Only one in three AFL players ever get to play 50 games so 39 games (JKH) and 47 games for Billy is not a fail by any measure. Good luck guys

I'm tired of reading these articles which are full of nothing but words.

Posting complete articles can get the site owners in deep doo-doo.... Probably best to delete before they find it guys.

His game sense, decision making and reflexes are all elite. He's able to work his way through contested situations and distribute perfectly either long or short. He's really strong in the air, is quick to mop up and ground level, and always uses the ball well. There's definitely a little bit of Trapper about his decision making and kicking. It's been a long time since we've had someone with elite kicking like Young at the club. Salem has potential, but he always picks a short option and his long kicking lacks penetration compared to others. Young will be an elite half back flanker for a decade. Perfect replacement for Hibberd. He'll help improve the quality of entry into our forward 50 so we start scoring better again. Need to get him at pick 3 IMO!

I heard that he killed the yo-yo test with his versions of "Walk The Dog" and "Rock The Baby".

Always sad to see players go, who did everything right only to not quite make it. They can certainly leave with their heads held high.

Good luck gentlemen, thank you for being dedicated to trying to make the Dees a premiership team, alas it was not to be on either front.

Agree. It’s how many feel. Tired of negative posters. I bit more respect.

In his expanded Phantom Draft, Knightmare predicts Melbourne will take Hayden Young with pick 3 (not splitting the pick or nominating Tom Green) and Brodie Kemp with its next pick. Expanded AFL Phantom Draft: Risers, sliders and new names

Pretty much all of his highlights come against little to no resistance. It’s not his fault, but it makes him look better than he is. Also, a lot of his “exceptional” kicks will get picked off at the higher level. That’s not to say he’s not a good kick, but again, makes him look like he’ll have more impact than he really will. A solid AFL back flanker. I’d like more for pick 3.

JKH was a bit stiff getting that last injury, he was just starting to become damaging. But i thought that would be it, when it happened. Billy was never up to it whenever i saw him play, which was suprising as everybody raved about his training discipline. Tough game AFL, there are a few on our list very lucky to still be there...

Yep, loved that bit of mongrel and he doesn't take his eyes off the ball when backing into traffic with an overhead mark either.

I'm on record as saying Martin is player i would like to see at the club. But whilst we can no doubt afford him i don't think it is entirely true that money is not an issue. If say we agree to pay him 700k a season it will immediately put him in say the top 5 players for salary. And that may create some issues if his teammates believe he is not worth that sort of coin, or they think they are worth more. Which might be an issue for morale but more pertinently might become an issue at the end of next season when a number of key players will be renegotiating contracts. The players will have advanced notice of the plans to get Lever and may and so the logic for their high salaries would have been more evident. Both are likely future AA players (may might have been already?). It is a bit harder to argue the case for martin. All that said i would be thrilled if we get him.

I'd be bidding on Green at 3, making the Giants match and then grabbing Young. wouldn't be unhappy with Serong but we are crying out for someone with Youngs kicking and it's such an important position.

True. I think what stood out to me from it is the fact that we actually have wingers who can not only play the role well, but do so for extended periods of time. It therefore allows us to rest other players and keep them fresh for longer, thus allowing them to have a more positive impact on a game for extended periods.

I'm an old fashioned coach 'Lucifer', I will use stats but mainly use my eyes to watch what happens on the ground. Langdon and Tomlinson are hard runners who push back hard to cover. Plus anything that helps bring back Gus into the middle and allows Trac more time on ball is a bonus. I don't need Jay's flakey stats to tell me that and to be honest he didn't need them to back up his premise. Maybe he's been David Kingised...

Sums what he needs to do. But I get the feeling he is going to turn out like a Tom Boyd. Can get up for a really big important game but does little until we are actually there. Poor appetite for the long season grind.

The Panasonic Cup has our name written all over it.

MFCSS talking here but i just had a vision of our two saviors running directly into the centre for our first bounce and knocking each other out and injuring themselves for the season.

Our midfield (counting the players who at least spend a substantial amount of time there) seems to be structured in three layers as far as TOG goes. Viney and Brayshaw both played a slice less than others - at 73 and 78%. Oliver, Harmes and Jones all round to 83% I do find it interesting that Salem is at 85% (obviously with more time spent not chasing the ball around the park) but the big surprise I noticed during the year was that Petracca was out at 88%, less than 2% off being our player 'most on the ground'. As well as putting a question against people claiming he is un-fit (he is getting >15 minutes less rest than Viney, for example) it also gets me thinking about a rotation where we deliberately end up with a kind of double-midfield. There's no doubt that Petracca and Oliver can be effective for spells up forward, I'd speculate that Viney might spend valuable time there as well as a pressure-providing small forward. In the other direction, we were already trialling having Melksham spent more time on the ball. And I'll just be cheeky here and say whatever your opinion of Nibbler, we can all agree that is he similarly effective across the forward line on in midfield! It is just as easy to see Fritsch, Langdon and Tomlinson rotating wings and half-forward in whatever proportions get the best out of them and confuse our opponents most. It would be a great overall position to be able to quickly and seamlessly switch players between forward and midfield/wing at any time during a game.

It's not about replacing them...although it will be a by product. Over the last couple of seasons we have had to use the likes of Brayshaw, Tyson and Jones on the wings and Trac more forward than perhaps we would have liked. I know we've pretty much all had a shots at Goody for not giving Gus more time in the middle where he plays his best footy. Langdon and Tomlinson will allow us to run our best inside mids where they play their best footy. A core midfield of Oliver, Brayshaw, Trac and Viney rotating forward and off the bench is going to be a pretty decent engine room.

Anyone remember Buddy's 8 week 'hammy' a few years ago?

It's very unlikely that our overall fortunes in 2020 are going to be dictated by who we pick at 3. When was the last time even the Rising Star winner was decisive in a team's season outcome? I'm tipping almost never - maybe Joel Selwood in 2007.

The AFL is likely to give melbourne a major boost by giving them to right to recruit from all the area between Victoria and Tasmania. A massive greatly undeveloped area.