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20 great games in the last 30 years in no particular order Essendon vs Melbourne Windy Hill Round 16 1990 Melbourne vs Adelaide MCG QF 1998 Melbourne vs Carlton VFL Park 1988 PF Footscray vs Melbourne Western Oval Round 22 1987 Melbourne vs North Melb MCG EF 1987 Melbourne vs West Coast VFL Park EF 1988 Melbourne vs Carlton MCG QF 2000 Melbourne vs North Melb MCG PF 2000 (Farmer 8 goals) Geelong vs Melbourne Kardinia Park Round 20 2005 (Robertson 7 goals) Geelong vs Melbourne Kardinia Park Round 12 2015 Adelaide vs Melbourne Adelaide Oval Round 8 2017 Melbourne vs Hawthorn MCG Round 22 1990 Melbourne vs Hawthorn MCG EF 1990 Collingwood vs Melbourne Vic Park Round 20 1992 (Jakovich 7 goals) St Kilda vs Melbourne Moorabbin Round 18 1991 (Jakovich 8 goals) West Coast vs Melbourne Subiaco Round 8 1989 Melbourne vs Foostcray MCG SF 1994 (Lyon 10 goals) Melbourne vs Essendon AFL Park EF 1991 (Jakovich 8 goals) Sydney vs Melbourne SCG Round 24 1994 (Schwarz 9 goals) Melbourne vs Collingwood MCG Round 14 2000 (Farmer 9 goals)

2 - Robbie

Woewodin’s brownlow year was handy.

Highly supportive of Pedo in the best 22; he has the utility assets to change an opponent's game plan and this is generated from an outstanding attitude towards his contribution and that of players around him. He can change games on his very special gifts and skills, and with big fitness improvements, 'his tank' had enabled this attitude to shine through the past season. I am worried about the young fella who is the spitting image of the great Melbourne player and captain, Hassa Mann, on the field. That is, Dean Kent. Few athletes can overcome the damaging effects of a dislocated shoulder, a long-term weakness in the stability of the joint arises. To me, this is a real shame, as Kenty has shown plenty and if he can get up well for 2018, I'd reckon he has those attributes (in buckets) that we need on the half-forward flank both as a goalsneak and as a key linkman for other forwards. His kicking and running can both be excellent if he has game time to settle in this role. He is a killer short-pass exponent. He is also quite tough and hard at the ball. His head is always up, and with his fast on-field mind, zeros in on a team-mate to deliver the end result through a scoring opportunity.

I'm still coming to terms with Richmond winning the flag, and on a lesser scale the Bulldogs. Both teams far from the most skilled in their respective years but manic pressure in their attack on the ball/ball carrier and get the ball forward at any cost got them across the line. Our players still struggle with the concept of coming to play every week.

For mine, Weideman is the wild card in this deck. If he develops into the KPF many hope, then we are in front of the game.

Players who are best 22 and have reached their potential (7) Jones Lewis Hibberd Jetta Pedersen Garlett Melksham Players who are best 22 and have not reached their potential (15) Low Scope for Improvement (5) Gawn Viney Tyson Frost T Mac Medium Scope for Improvement (6) Oliver Lever Hogan Harmes Hunt Neal-Bullen Large Scope for Improvement (4) Brayshaw Petracca Salem O Mac Players who are not best 22 and have not reached their potential (12) Low Scope for Improvement (2) Bugg vandenBerg Medium Scope for Improvement (6) Hannan Kent Stretch JKH King Johnston Large Scope for Improvement (4) Weideman Balic Maynard J Smith Players who are not best 22 and have reached their potential (2) Vince Wagner

Even though we didn't have success he made up a great centre line in the 70's Alves Wells Flower

Darren Bennett - 1990 87 goals for the year including 5 great goals to best Essendon from 5 goals down at Windy Hill.

So knightmare over at Big Footy has us selecting 29 Melbourne - Toby Wooller Height, Weight: 193cm, 90kgSummary Profile: Strong-bodied key forward who provides a marking presence. Just as capable as a big bodied, ball-winning midfielder.

Both GWS and Adelaide played the flanks and gave Richmond the corridor. The traditional forward delivery to the pocket seems to be the easiest to zone against as it allows the ball to be taken out of bounds as well as rebounded. Of course the empty forward line also slows delivery which does not help the traditional forward. Will be interesting to see if the traditional teams change their game plan to counter the scrum or as I call it helter skelter. Would love to see a permanent forward about 70 metres out from goal trialled.

Great OP WJ. I wonder whose house will be the first to be trained down?

Nice work P-man. I would argue three of four assessments but this is a great model of categorisation and you've fairly well nailed the majority of slots.

Nathan Jones, 2013 - In a 2 win season, his support in the midfield comprised of a barely interested Colin Sylvia and Jones of the Matt variety. Still, he busted his guts every week giving Demons fans everywhere a reason to keep believing in brighter days ahead. B and F. No All Australian selection. A tonne of respect.

Pre-season Training starts on Monday and from the AFL site ~ Complete guide to your club's off-season. Training return: The first-to-fourth year players resume on Monday, November 6, with the rest – except draftees – returning on Monday, November 20. The Demons will again hold their pre-season training camp in Maroochydore in January. Injury list: Co-captain Jack Viney (foot), Dean Kent (shoulder), Tim Smith (navicular bone) and Aaron vandenBerg (heel) will be in the rehab group up to Christmas. Swingman Tom McDonald (ankles) is on a running program and will be integrated into the main group in late December, while Pat McKenna (hamstring) will start on a modified program and Lochie Filipovic will rehab interstate before returning in December. Jesse Hogan (hamstring) will be in the main group from November 20. Draft picks: 29, 31, 36, 47 84, 102 Arrived: Harley Balic (traded from Fremantle), Jake Lever (traded from Adelaide) Departed: Colin Garland (retired) Liam Hulett (delisted), Ben Kennedy (delisted), Heritier Lumumba (retired), Jake Spencer (delisted), Jack Trengove (delisted free agent to Port Adelaide), Jack Watts (traded to Port Adelaide), Mitch White (delisted) Major off-field moves: Jade Rawlings is the Casey Demons' new senior coach, taking over from Justin Plapp, who becomes an assistant with Melbourne's AFL side. Recently retired defender Colin Garland is also moving into various coaching roles at the club, including with the AFL team, Next Generation Academy and AFL Women's, as well as being the VFLW Casey Demons' inaugural senior coach. Melbourne also appointed Peter Maynard as Casey's general manager of football, a role where he will oversee the VFL, VFLW and NGA programs. Round one: Geelong, MCG, Sunday, March 25, 3.20pm AEDT Premiership odds: $16 (CrownBet) We say: The time is now for the Demons, who last played finals in 2006 and missed the 2017 post-season by just 0.5 per cent after a disappointing round 23 loss to Collingwood. Jake Lever's addition will strengthen an already solid defence, and their talented young crop – including Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca, Angus Brayshaw, Sam Weideman, Jesse Hogan and Jayden Hunt – should be ready to go to another level. The lack of Thursday and Friday night exposure (only one match) is a disappointment, but six of Melbourne's first seven matches are in Victoria and it doesn't have back-to-back six-day breaks or interstate travel. – Marc McGowan

Hard exercise, I'm sure many will disagree with some selections and on those I did not include. (and no I didnt overlook Woewodins brownlow medal year, Im well aware I omitted it). 1. David Schwarz, 1994 - Led competition in marks, kicked 60 goals at CHF, dominated the first two weeks of finals. Widely regarded as the equal to Wayne Carey. And he did it in style. 2. Jim Stynes, 1991 - Brownlow medal winner with 25 votes. AA ruckman Redefined the ruck position by averaging 26 disposals, 9 marks and chipping in 15 goals. B and F. 3. Garry Lyon, 1994 - 79 goals, including 10 in a final. Went into the midfield in numerous final quarters when the team needed a lift, and he always delivered. All Australian. B and F. 4. David Neitz, 2002 - 82 goals, AA full forward and a rare Coleman Medal for the Melbourne Football Club. Became a great leader and one of the comps best enforcers and most intimidating big men. B and F. 5. Clayton Oliver, 2017 - One of the greatest seasons a teenager has ever played, culminating in a landslide victory in the Best and Fairest. Became the only Melbourne player in club history to average 30 disposals in a season. 6. Jeff Farmer, 2000 - Electrified the comp, kicking 76 goals including 9 on Queens Birthday and 8 in the Prelim FInal, helping the Dees into the granny. All Australian. 7. Garry Lyon, 1995 - ,Makes it 70+ goals in back to back seasons, and earns his third straight All Australian selection. 8. Max Gawn, 2016 - A dominant season, winding the clock back to the days of the great Jimmy Stynes. AA ruckman and polled 16 Brownlow votes. 9. Allen Jakovich, 1991 - 71 goals in 14 games, it was a record breaking season. Eight goals in the first final, vs Essendon, eliminating them. Fastest player to 50 career goals. 19 scoring shots in a single game. Possibly would have been number 1 on this list if he had played even just a few more matches. 10. David Neitz, 1995 - In just his third season, future skipper David Neitz holds down centre half back with distinction, and is named in the All Australian team.

13. Allen Jakovich, Adem Yze, Clayton Oliver

29 Hassa Mann

15. Stanley Alves

Norm Smith, John Lord

4 Tony Sullivan, Peter Giles and............ Watts his name

WST Barman scratched, elevated temperature. Marmelo is now favourite at 8.50 on the TAB.

Melbourne vs Adelaide 2002 Semi FInal A loss unfortunately, but an incredible game. And this, eliminating Essendrug from the finals, Stynes dominating and Jakovich kicking 8

I'm on the Marmelo bandwagon too. Hoping for a double figure price.

Interesting....Hartnell, Almandin and Humidor all drawn next to each other in the middle of the field. The odds of that happening alone are huge!! They are my three main runners. Ill be supporting local trainer DK Weir with the lightweight Amelies Star. Who Shot the Barman will get the trip and has hit form. (9yo tho) Single Gaze, Marmello, Rekindling, Boom Time, Max Dynamite, Johannes Vermeer and i have to throw in Tiberian....for the multiples. Ill come up with a few more no doubt. Im also a fan of having the field for a leg in Trifects and FF.. As mentioned on air this morning....and worth noting, that no international horse has won first up in The Melbourne Cup since Vintage Crop.

Previously I've backed a few horse to win the cup and sometimes up to 5 horses with a view to tripling my total outlay. But lately I've done a trifecta and/or a first 4 with the field going for me for 3rd (trifecta) or 4th (first 4) I see Lloyd Williams has 6 runners and both Darren Weir and Irish trainer Willie Mullins have 3 runners each. The field with their barrier number's ... MELBOURNE CUP FIELD 1. Hartnell - D Lane 12 2. Almandin - F Dettori 14 3. Humidor - B ShinN 13 4. Tiberian - O Peslier 23 5. Marmelo - H Bowman 16 6. Red Cardinal - K McEvoy 24 7. Johannes Vermeer - B Melham 3 8. Bondi Beach - M Walker 1 9. Max Dynamite - Z Purton 2 10. Ventura Storm - G Boss 6 11. Who Shot Thebarman - T Berry 20 12. Wicklow Brave - S Baster 8 13. Big Duke - B Avdulla 5 14. US Army Ranger - J Spencer 22 15. Boom Time - C Parish 9 16. Gallante - M Dee 18 17. Libran - D Dunn 7 18. Nakeeta - G Schofield 19 19. Single Gaze- K O’Hara 11 20. Wall Of Fire - C Williams 15 21. Thomas Hobson - J Moreira 21 22. Rekindling - C Brown 4 23. Amelie’s Star - D Yendall 10 24. Cismontane - B Mertens 17

Rawlings probably wants his own team to control and put himself up for senior gigs.

Based on Lever’s Instagram account he is still in France. Don’t forget he played for an extra 5 weeks after our boys capitulated in around 23. I would expect he gets some additional grace period.

Agreed. There is plenty of development left in Viney, Oliver, Gawn and Lever.

I can't think of many others that could deliver a 50m dart across his body and hit someone lace out. Trac is the only one currently that can do it. Trapper possessed incredible vision.

This conversation was enjoyable until the checklist of numbers turned into letters. Grades are fixed catergories across a spectrum of performance - arguing over their subjective margins into shoe-horned definitives is a waste of everyone's breath.

I remember 1991 well as I was in Melbourne studying. Cuthbertson was on fire for a brief period kicked 7 against North in rd 4 (which I was there to see) and followed it up with 7 against the Pies the following week. Leigh Matthews mentioned he was the difference between the two sides. Rd 6 he kicked 5 against the Bears, but unfortunately for Darren and the club his star dimmed. Only ended up playing 32 games in 3 seasons. He'd had a pretty hard road to get to the club and unfortunately I think some off field issues got the better of him.

Getta bigger Eskie !

Never would have believed that Port would become my second team, but if those two are on the list on game day, i'll be cheering.

Vanished in the last month??! What games were watching? Dominated Port Brisbane and the Saints? I really wonder about demonland sometimes..

Sloane is most definitely an A-grader and a better footballer than Nathan Jones.

Terrific bloke. Cruelled by injury and possibly the worst coach in history. I hope he comes good for Port and has a top season. ( I wouldn't even mind a cracker game against us) Go Jack!!

Really happy Trenners got another chance, if any footy story deserves a happy ending than this is it. Best of luck Jack

How many come back from 3 and get better? That list is very, very short. The Ox, before and then after the knee recos, got every possible ounce of talent out of his body. The fact he played as many games as he did and won a club best and fairest goes to show how committed he was to the club and to giving absolutely everything he had to the cause. If all the players on our list followed that lead then we wouldn't be going far wrong.

Jack T was on radio saying that he contacted Jack W (in Canada) who shed a tear or two on hearing they would be together at Port. Shows how much they think of each other. I shed a few tears too. Never thought I would say this but I hope Port has great success next year (except vs us) with our Jacks! Good luck JT. Whatever happens, you'll always be a Demon champ!

All ex-Melbourne DFAs, have gone to their new 'home' with my very best wishes, but Jack undoubtedly heads that list. I can't think af any other sub -100 game player who is so universally liked. Thanks Jack, for carrying yourself so professionally and proudly as a Demon, through the toughest of times.

I would think Lever, Viney and Oliver have a long way to go to reach their potential. No way are they fully formed players yet...

BTW Bugg is underated on here. Is a leading 3km time triallist with TMac, he has got talent that is arguably mis-directed at the moment. Gets to the ball and had he kicked 15 g 6b instead of 6g 15b from his 10 games we would be talking about him differently.

Potential schmentzel All that matters is that we have 38 players who are driven to get the best out of themselves. Jonesey, TMac, Viney are driven to win. While all players aren't the same, everyone needs to be on the same page when t comes to commitment to win. That's why you-know-who isn't here anymore.

Great list and talking point, I will say that while I agree a lot of our improvement will come from those yet to reach there potential, part of the optimism has to lie with so of those who have "reached their potential" actually doing so again. I'd argue that in 2017 Jones, Viney and Gawn had interrupted seasons which meant they only rarely reached their potential, so we'll also gain plenty from them. I'd also move TMac to the 'haven't yet reached potential' area, if including him as a forward (or even swing-man), we know what he brings as a defender but I think they've only just started to explore his forward capabilities and with Hogan being fit his forward role would develop even further.

I think that's a relatively fair assessment. Although, I believe that Viney, Oliver, Lever, and Gawn can take their games to a new level again. They are at a point, however, which is probably more dependent on how the team around them performs as to how much further they develop. Likewise, the development of the others will be catalysed if the team as a whole, including the game plan or execution of it, improves.

Some great footballers but for excitement alone Jeff Farmer and Liam Jurrah, They played the game differently, on their terms, unpredictable, mercurial, at times freakish. They could see patterns of play, see the ball bounce before anyone else like in the dream time. The indigenous way of playing footy. Something special.

"If we draft Bayley Fritsch, all our pets will become communists and our children will transform in horses."