POSTGAME: Opening Round vs Sydney

[Pipefitter 2,014]

54 minutes ago, DutchDemons said:

Charlie Spargo has fallen off a cliff. Incredibly disappointing match. 

Complete arrogance playing him off no match sim.

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

You mean it's been a long 2 going into 3 years after the flag... We seem to still be under premiership hangover 

Exhibit A

[Fromgotowoewodin 726]

9 minutes ago, Demonland said:

A couple of things jump out at me from this:

- 4.2 from set shots, which highlights how important it is to mark it i50 (I’m going insane over this). 4.8 and 2 no score from shots in play. Need space and movement and to find targets. 

- 5.7 and 1 no score from their set shots, should’ve been a bigger margin. 
 

(I think there’s an error in there somewhere. Table has 11.15 vs 8.10 when the actual score was 12.14 vs 9.10)

[In Harmes Way 7,492]

We should go back to last year and read the post game thread for the Brisbane away game which was also very hot and humid, and we got a towelling up until the lights went out and we then kicked 5 goals to make the loss look less awful. We still made the top 4 last year despite that showing.

I'm taking the same view this year - we were very rusty and the conditions certainly didn't help. Probably most disappointing from last night was the last quarter showing after kicking 5 in the third.  

[loges 6,026]

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Is Fullerton actually AFL standard? Max desperately needs support. Schache should be put in to exile along with Chandler and Laurie. Losing Bedford over Chandler still hurts.  

Fullerton would have to be better than Schache surely.

[loges 6,026]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

IT WAS BONE DRY, PERFECT FOOTBALL CONDITIONS, WITH A NICE BREEZE BLOWING ACROSS THE GROUND & MUCH COOLER THAN MELBOURNE'S LAST MONTH. I WAS IN THE BRADMAN STAND & PUT ON A JUMPER AT HALF TIME

Right and about 10 people on here that were there have stated the opposite myself included, what were you sitting in, the fridge.

[Ouch! 2,034]

1 hour ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Agree, can't see how we could possibly pick Schache next week which probably means JVR has to pinch hit in the ruck, assuming TF not ready? 

If he's not ready, you don't take him as one of the three emergencies for the game last night. 

He hasn't probably had match practise to the level we had hoped, but he should be ready to play.

[Ouch! 2,034]

19 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Complete arrogance playing him off no match sim.

People saying he was limping at the airport, tbh it felt like he was proppy most of the night. It was an interesting selection call moreso because I feel like he, Billings, Laurie & Spargo feel like they should be fighting it out for 2-3 places in our team, not taking up 4 by themselves. Kozzie, McAdam (and hopefully Melk when fit) offer significant points of difference here. This isn't a slight on the players above, just they play I don't see how they all fit. 
 

[loges 6,026]

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[drdrake 3,037]

Will May be out for a couple of weeks, it looked like he tweaked a groin and couldn't change direction or accelerate in the last quarter?

Excluse ANB as he really plays that 5th mid role rather than permanent hff, non of our small forwards offer any pressure inside our f50, Pickett coming in helps but Chandler, Laurie, Spargo they never seem to be where the need to be front and square crumbing, frontal pressure f50 tackles.

[Little Goffy 12,568]

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

IT WAS BONE DRY, PERFECT FOOTBALL CONDITIONS, WITH A NICE BREEZE BLOWING ACROSS THE GROUND & MUCH COOLER THAN MELBOURNE'S LAST MONTH. I WAS IN THE BRADMAN STAND & PUT ON A JUMPER AT HALF TIME

I think we have found one 'positive' from the night.

Please remember to self-isolate as much as possible, keep your fluids up and manage the symptoms.

Do not return to your residential care home until you have been at least three days without symptoms.

[kev martin 9,067]

2 hours ago, BDA said:

have to put my hand as one that overestimated the Carlton praccy performance.

Not the only one to take too much out of the praccy against the Boos.

We regularly fail to cope with a slippery ball.

Hoping for some repent and redemption. Coaches to help them see the problems and fix it. They must be hurting! Balloon has been popped, time to build the season. 

We need team work and an unselfish approach to assist your mate to be a better player.

More 1 percenters, talking and to hit the targets.

Good result to build the NSW AFL vs NRL.

[titan_uranus 22,357]

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

We have not played well in humid, slippery conditions since Roos/Goodwin took over. (We have struggled in Darwin, Cairns, Brisbane and Gold Coast.) My theory is that the slippery ball takes away the aerial strength of Max and our intercept defenders. Plus our midfield is not skilful and overuses the ball to exit stoppages.

The team selection was poor last night, with too many midgets. We need to place a greater value on small forwards who can compete in the air. The game has gone past players like Spargo and Laurie, who are hopeless in the marking contests, and not quick. We need Woewodin and Tholstrop to come on.

Agree with these two points in particular.

Spargo and Laurie are not going to get it done for us this year. They are too slow for their height, they don't cover the ground well enough, they don't tackle well enough and they don't reliably kick goals. Chandler, for all his problems, is much quicker and has goal nous when he's inside 50. 

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

But our senior players when the pressure was really on at the start of the last quarter all decided to take turns trying to be the freaking heroes rather than trusting their team mates taking simple options. And it starts with the captain, quickly followed by the vice captain and the supposed next captain in Lever isn't far off either. 

I don't agree with everything in your post but this bit was something I wasn't happy with last night, particularly because it's supposed to have been a focus of ours this year (per Petracca in the Dyl & Friends podcast).

There is so much disrespect of Gawn in this thread, it's embarrassing, but the one criticism I will put against him is that he too often goes into "I'll do it" mode, and it doesn't help us.

[DemonSam 166]

From what I can see yesterday, the message to the team is often kept simple, Goodwin would say "its hot and sweaty boys so get it in long and deep."

The boys come out, we're a good team a well drilled team and win the middle contest get distance to the opponent and remember the message "get it long and deep!"

The problem being that the get it long and deep is only when the play is tight and the pressure is on, when you get space you have to be clean no matter the weather. So we dominate the contest early but flub it because we bomb.

I bet the message at half time was, "alright boys we've smashed em at the contest, now just use it a bit better get it to someone who can kick and hit up someone" 

2nd half of the game we started loosing the contest and sydney ramp the pressure and but we are a well drilled team so we follow the message "use it better, hit someone up" so as it gets more soapy, wet  and under the higher pressure we fiddle and fumble in the contest and try and hit up targets like Spargo against taller defenders.

I think Goodwin does react to things that happen on gameday for sure, but I think its the timing and a general reactivity instead of a proactive message thats the problem.

[Sydee 3,613]

1 hour ago, loges said:

Right and about 10 people on here that were there have stated the opposite myself included, what were you sitting in, the fridge.

Well, I was there too and didn't think it was particularly warm albeit I do live in Sydney so perhaps I'm used to a warmer climate.

What I will say is that after the game I walked across the park outside the ground and the grass felt dry to me so not sure how it gets so slippery inside the stadium and for the most part the swans players seemed very capable to handle the ball like it was dry.

We can make all the excuses in the world, but the harsh reality is that last night we were out played by a team that looked much fitter, was prepared to run harder and make space and were far superior when it came to executing basic AFL skills (particularly field kicking)

For the record I was convinced at half time we would get our act together and come home with a wet sail. When Bowey got injured, my confidence dropped, when May looked proppy at 3/4 time I thought the writing was on the wall - and it sure was.

I'm not writing off this year based on one loss to a team who in my opinion will make the finals but there is plenty of work to do to get to where we hope to be. Some of that is missing critical personnel particularly in our F50 (Petty, Pickett, McAdam and possibly even Fullarton who couldn't offer less than Schache who is simply not an AFL footballer and never will be.

Chandler, Laurie and Spargo were all bitterly disappointing but of those 3 at least Chandler offers some leg speed the other two were embarrassingly slow last night - and I have been a big supporter of Spargo before but on last night's effort he should not have been selected mainly due to lack of match fitness.

Those criticizing JVR need to remember that our system and delivery into the F50 is shambolic - I would hate to be a forward in our side as the ball is constantly hacked in mostly to the defender's advantage. His output will improve if we can get either Petty or Fullerton there as another legitimate tall target and improve our system of entry/delivery even by a small margin. 

 

[Roost it far 6,055]

1 hour ago, loges said:

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[Brenno 230]

1 hour ago, loges said:

Fullerton would have to be better than Schache surely.

No doubt!

A but a plastic bag floating around the SCG would have had more impact last night, and would have certainly offered more physicality. 

Its mind-blowing that bloke was pick 2.  He had 1 Hit out and 1 effective disposal last night.... In fact, in his last 20 games at AFL level he has kicked 11 goals and had 22 hit-outs TOTAL! 

This illustrates that he is not up to it as a key fwd or a ruck. its crazy he is even on our list yet alone getting a game at AFL level. 

I remember when we had a mantra of "drafting competitors". That's clearly gone out the window now with players like Laurie, Schache, Billings skirting around the ground doing sweet FA and refusing to cop an contact whatsoever.  

[Ugottobekidding 915]

To be honest, Schace wouldn't get a game on West Coasts list. 

[Dee*ceiving 876]

2 hours ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

It's crazy how far he's fallen.

Even crazier that he was picked given a) we didn't/don't need that many small forwards and b) he hadn't played any game time previous to this and could have done with a run in the 2s. Given his performance, he definitely needs a good many runs in the 2s. 

The VFL doesn't start for another 2 weeks but there is a practice match today and another next weekend

[Dee*ceiving 876]

The debate regarding conditions last night is interesting, particularly when those in the stands are suggesting it was dry but I am sure I heard the commentators and Jude B clearly state more than once it was humid, sticky and dewy. 

...& the players looked completely drenched, particularly the dees darker colours. 

Brings a question to my mind. Did we do any night time training in Jan or Feb? Suspect not (do they even have suitable lighting at Casey or Gosch's to make it possible?). 

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,416]

2 hours ago, loges said:

Fullerton would have to be better than Schache surely.

I'm not sure whether that'a a compliment or a sledge loges

[Deemania since 56 6,135]

6 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

It really is time - across the board for our team - for Goodwin to show some adaptive adjustments including improved skills applications for many of our players, stuck in a framework of uncertainty and clearly evident interactive restriction.

 

It is going to be very interesting to watch Yze steer Richmond this year - to what improvement, I wonder. I am sure that he will lift the Tigers and their onfield performances, the number of wins they achieve, the cohesion between players and their respective roles and importantly, the slate of alternative game plans and tactics that adopt to game conditions and circumstances - just what (in total), Goodwin failed to achieve. Might have been very opportune to promote Yze  to the Demon senior coaching position, offering SG to the Tiges for a few peanuts. 

[wonnabeeri 220]

24 minutes ago, Brenno said:

No doubt!

A but a plastic bag floating around the SCG would have had more impact last night, and would have certainly offered more physicality. 

Its mind-blowing that bloke was pick 2.  He had 1 Hit out and 1 effective disposal last night.... In fact, in his last 20 games at AFL level he has kicked 11 goals and had 22 hit-outs TOTAL! 

This illustrates that he is not up to it as a key fwd or a ruck. its crazy he is even on our list yet alone getting a game at AFL level. 

I remember when we had a mantra of "drafting competitors". That's clearly gone out the window now with players like Laurie, Schache, Billings skirting around the ground doing sweet FA and refusing to cop an contact whatsoever.  

To be fair one of those games (elim final) he got zero stats as an unused sub. Another goodwin coaching genius decision.

[The Swimming Dee 1,853]

A few thoughts on last night and some mitigating factors:

- Oliver looked extremely tired at the end of the game and pretty rusty throughout. He will be better for the hit out. I wonder if he would have been played if Gus was available…I doubt it but they probably thought they needed him for his big body and experience.

- Whilst Spargo has copped a lot of criticism last night he has runs on the board in my opinion and should be picked next week. He didn’t get enough of the ball but was burnt on several occasions when he was in space. One was by our captain when he had a paddock in front of him. Max decided to not give the handball which he should have…sometimes Max holds up the play after a mark too much in my opinion.

- I don’t see it with Laurie. He is not quick, not an extractor, not an accumulator and doesn’t seem overly skilled. Has a lot to prove to stay in or get back in the team. Billing’s should have been played ahead of him and I hope he is next week. Maybe Laurie out and Tholstrup in is a good move?

- Petracca didn’t have a great game but I felt like he was struggling with balance between the forward line and the midfield. I wonder if throwing Clarry forward in the last quarter and Trac into the middle might have been worth a try.

- Max didn’t have his best night but wasn’t smashed as some have suggested.

I think we will be better for next week, especially with Pickett back in the team. 

[Dee*ceiving 876]

We knew already, but Grundy's performance last night is a severe dagger in the heart for us. 

SG and football department should be hurting over their failure to make something out of the Max and Brody partnership. It seems they only had one plan for that partnership.

It was one or both of Max and Brody spend ~50% of their game time I50 and they kick goals. As soon as they became convinced that wasn't working they threw it away completely and discarded a quality player to a competing contender.

Surely there were other options and a combination of which could be applied? 

• Don't play them both every week. Surely there would be benefit in giving them a rest from time to time. 3 - 4 games off each throughout the season would have some merit (horses for f'n courses)
• If the forward option isn't working have one of them drop behind the ball for 20% of their game time. This could even allow a defender to swing forward as a shock option! 
• Reduce each of their own overall game time. Max had 82% TOG last night, Brodie 78%. Why not target each of them around 70%? 
• Sub one of them off from time to time for a running player