CHANGES: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[DeeZone 7,709]

I think that the coach said that he was tracking well.

[CityDee 738]

Who can replace Tmac as a swingman ? 

Van Rooyan ? 

1 option is to play weed as a starting forward who can go back - train with the backs this week 

If Petty needs a rest in game play weed back - 

Bring in Majak to block for Benny Brown and play Max forward more .  

Reckon we need to look  past this week -

Trac needs a few weeks rest 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

12 hours ago, Sydee said:

BB hardly set the world on fire when he was playing at Casey 

Don’t recall him ever kicking bags of goals consistently - he did get reported I guess that’s “form” of some sort 

Doesn't have to kick bags IMO, but atm he's giving us literally nothing. You can't keep that in the time and cross your fingers, it's just a terrible look for culture as well as harms our performance.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

See the thing is, Brown does deserve to be dropped, but I'm just not sure Weid deserves to be recalled.

Goodwin's comments on Weid in the presser suggest he's not particularly enamoured with Weid's form either.

Reality is that we currently have no in-form fit tall forward on our list. Whoever gets a game next week, whether it's B Brown, M Brown or Weid, is getting a game more out of necessity than out of form or "deserving" it.

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

[Demon3 2,541]

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

Goody post match presser was pretty damning on on Weid. First time i have heard him not really back a player in.. wants him to play big man footy.. and he isn't. So i expect Weid to have an extended run in the 2's

[roy11 2,926]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Doesn't have to kick bags IMO, but atm he's giving us literally nothing. You can't keep that in the time and cross your fingers, it's just a terrible look for culture as well as harms our performance.

Last 4 games he's totaled 20 disposals, across his career averages 10 a game, so he's not getting the ball as much or at least holding onto marks. If he goes to the 2s and then comes back would the same issues be there? He's clearly out of form like you said and the forward line (and f50 entry) is a bit dysfunctional atm and Tmac may be cooked for a bit.

If BBB goes to the 2s he may kick a bag of goals, he may not. M Brown and Weid have kicked a bunch for Casey this year and then not really imposed themselves when getting into the seniors. 

That is the concern I have about dropping B.Brown, as it involves a larger team based issue as well. Can we afford to keep him in the team whilst trying to rectify some teamplay and get him into better form?

I'm still on the fence.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Last 4 games he's totaled 20 disposals, across his career averages 10 a game, so he's not getting the ball as much or at least holding onto marks. If he goes to the 2s and then comes back would the same issues be there? He's clearly out of form like you said and the forward line (and f50 entry) is a bit dysfunctional atm and Tmac may be cooked for a bit.

If BBB goes to the 2s he may kick a bag of goals, he may not. M Brown and Weid have kicked a bunch for Casey this year and then not really imposed themselves when getting into the seniors. 

That is the concern I have about dropping B.Brown, as it involves a larger team based issue as well. Can we afford to keep him in the team whilst trying to rectify some teamplay and get him into better form?

I'm still on the fence.

The main reason I'm not so worried about him kicking bags in the VFL is I think his main problem at the moment is his lack of movement. Not sure if he's carrying an injury or sore or whatever, but he just plants himself in a spot and doesn't lead. Earlier in the year he was getting around the ground more, wasn't rare to see him up on the wing taking a grab, but seems to be less of that now. He was really labouring around the ground on the weekend, more than I've noticed in recent weeks. Just reckon at VFL level it's easier to manage the game time and easier to focus on one or two specific things at a time.

[Winners at last 4,727]

Sportsbet ... filth odds, were $4.00, now $3.50. I think it will shorten further as filth supporters put money in.

[roy11 2,926]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The main reason I'm not so worried about him kicking bags in the VFL is I think his main problem at the moment is his lack of movement. Not sure if he's carrying an injury or sore or whatever, but he just plants himself in a spot and doesn't lead. Earlier in the year he was getting around the ground more, wasn't rare to see him up on the wing taking a grab, but seems to be less of that now. He was really labouring around the ground on the weekend, more than I've noticed in recent weeks. Just reckon at VFL level it's easier to manage the game time and easier to focus on one or two specific things at a time.

He still got around the ground a little bit this week but unfortunately a few times got in the way. 

I'm not against him going down to work on a few things but no one really has their hand up for that spot and we have the bye coming up,  may as well keep him in the game for Collingwood (at least) IMO

[Lord Nev 13,511]

4 minutes ago, roy11 said:

He still got around the ground a little bit this week but unfortunately a few times got in the way. 

I'm not against him going down to work on a few things but no one really has their hand up for that spot and we have the bye coming up,  may as well keep him in the game for Collingwood (at least) IMO

Yeah we're a bit stuck hey? Personally I would drop him, has had enough of a chance, but I can totally understand the argument for not dropping him given the other options and Goody's thoughts on Weid.

[Wodjathefirst 2,276]

If BBB is to stay in I would expect / hope that if he does not feel he can get a pack mark he should not go for it, rather bring it to the ground so our smalls can get a good look at it.  (Selfless footy , team first).  This makes his fellow players appreciate that he is value adding to the team effort.
I recall he did this for a while last year prior to him gaining confidence and then grabbing / snagging a few himself.

[BScotti 112]

 

In - May, Hibberd, Weid

Out - Petty (sore), Hunt, M.Brown

Give Petty a few weeks rest, Hunt was outplayed and cant handle it when the heat is on, and M.Brown is not our longer term solution, Weid and BB to play together and sort out their mojo together.  TMac is not going to be around for a while so they just need to sort it out and that will only happen if they play together.

[Fat Tony 4,403]

If they don't bring in Weideman, I would still drop Ben Brown and go with a smaller forward line. He hasn't marked well for a month and needs to go back to the VFL to get form back.

We would then need to target Gawn and Jackson inside 50 more often on slow plays but it would increase our pressure and mean we could go a bit faster. Having one fewer talls would mean we would need to be a bit more deliberate with our ball movement inside 50 as well.

[Jaded No More 57,820]

16 hours ago, rjay said:

I think that's the key 'dazzle', he's just not hitting the packs hard enough and until he does he stays at Casey.

Weideman plays like a small man in big man's body.

At VFL level against ordinary defenders it is easy to get away with. At AFL level, he just can't impact the contest hard enough for long enough, and as a result we lose critical contests. 

Tom McDonald, for all of his ordinary bouts of form, always gives consistent repeat efforts and is able to cover lots of ground and hardly get out marked. This is what he brings to the side, and this is what we need from whoever comes in to replace him.

Mitch Brown has clearly gotten the green light on effort. I thought he tried really hard, but he is a very ordinary footballer and he just isn't big enough to compete with really big bodied defenders either.

Weideman has all the 'tools', he just doesn't know how to open the tool box. 

I would certainly consider giving Tomlinson a go up there. I know he wasn't great as a forward for GWS, but he is capable of running all day, able to compete in the air, and very motivated to stay in the side. Unfortunately for him, all of May, Petty and Lever are and will continue to be ahead of him. So he either makes a go of it up forward where we are clearly lacking, or he continues to cross his fingers that a tall defender is injured come September.

As per usual, Smith is injured at a time when opportunities are available. Frustrating for him and for us! 

[Demon3 2,541]

42 minutes ago, BScotti said:

 

In - May, Hibberd, Weid

Out - Petty (sore), Hunt, M.Brown

Give Petty a few weeks rest, Hunt was outplayed and cant handle it when the heat is on, and M.Brown is not our longer term solution, Weid and BB to play together and sort out their mojo together.  TMac is not going to be around for a while so they just need to sort it out and that will only happen if they play together.

Hunt has been forced to defend last line and bigger opposition in the last 2 weeks, its not what he is designed to do. He is a sit on a small and go with them player. He will get Ginnivan this week. He isn't getting axed.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

I was in favour of dropping Brown and playing a small forward line, but giving it more thought, that basically gives Moore and Howe an advantage. They could make us play. I think we need to keep Moore accountable. 

[Antioch 184]

7 hours ago, SPC said:

I think our small defenders will be tested this week. Hibberd and Rivers are good lock down defenders and both come in this week. Hunt goes out, Salem to play Half forward.

Having Steven May back will help with general organisation. 
 

Forwarline needs another look. Might be worth going smaller. I’d drop Mitch Brown for Bedford. Having he and Salem will help with pressure, ball use and connection. 
 

I would like to see midfielders more accountable on defence. We also need to use the corridor more, with quicker movement. Last week was slow and safe and the forwards never had a chance.

There was a lot of hand passing in close thus allowing the opposition backs to flood the fifty, making it hard for our forwards to do anything.

[stinga 474]

1 hour ago, BScotti said:

 

In - May, Hibberd, Weid

Out - Petty (sore), Hunt, M.Brown

Give Petty a few weeks rest, Hunt was outplayed and cant handle it when the heat is on, and M.Brown is not our longer term solution, Weid and BB to play together and sort out their mojo together.  TMac is not going to be around for a while so they just need to sort it out and that will only happen if they play together.

with a 8 day break I think Petty will play but definately need Hibberd as Petty is liable to go off for long periods.  That's what happened in the 2nd quarter when we were a tall/bulky player short.

[bing181 8,165]

5 hours ago, binman said:

What evidence do you want?

A coach or player coming out and saying they are loading?

Yep. Or someone in the club or FD. Or ANY club or FD, not just Melbourne. It could even be one of those hot-shot football commentators, they love having inside goss "An exclusive from our man on the scene: Tom what do you have for us on the reason for Melbourne's two losses ..."

And at anytime, could be last season or any season.

Go for it.

[bing181 8,165]

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Hunt has been forced to defend last line and bigger opposition in the last 2 weeks, its not what he is designed to do. He is a sit on a small and go with them player. He will get Ginnivan this week. He isn't getting axed.

Have no idea about whether he'll be axed or not, but you're absolutely right on him being isolated one on one. Deliberate tactic, which unfortunately works, and we may see the same this week if he plays.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,925]

Van Rooyen wont play. If he was kicking 4 goals each week then maybe however M.Brown, Weid and Daw are better options

[bing181 8,165]

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

Edited June 6, 2022 by bing181

[bing181 8,165]

I don't think Petty will go out. He got through the match, and we have the bye coming up. We desperately need stability and system down back.

Up forward, no idea, but it's clearly not working and with Tom Mac out, the cupboard is bare. Agree with posters above suggesting Max will play more forward. Robbing Peter to pay Paul as we'd lose his influence (dominance) around the ground, but what can you do?

[DeeSpencer 23,125]

2 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I was in favour of dropping Brown and playing a small forward line, but giving it more thought, that basically gives Moore and Howe an advantage. They could make us play. I think we need to keep Moore accountable. 

We could just embrace the idea that they’ll take 15 intercept marks whether we’ve got Brown or no Brown, and go with the best team to score on the other 30-40 inside 50’s. Intercept marks are deflating but not always a bad thing, especially if we’ve got smaller leading forwards open and quick ball movement. I’d rather 5 goals and 5 intercept marks than 10 bombed entries that result in 1 goal 4 behinds 

[The heart beats true 16,129]

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure out Weid is very much on the outer. Goodwin always publicly defends players, but he’s changed tack about Sam because I suspect he’s tried literally everything else to get him fired up.

I actually think Sam is the most disappointing player drafted to Melbourne in the last 8- 10 years. We’ve spent a lot of money and coaching effort on him, and now when we need him more than ever he’s completely uncompetitive.