CHANGES: Rd 12 vs Collingwood

[titan_uranus 22,465]

3 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

In: Gawn, Viney, Lockhart

Out: Tomlinson, Spargo, AVB

 

TMac to the wing.

Harmes forward.

Melksham to half back.

I'm really against these positional changes just for the sake of it.

We're desperate for continuity and gelling as a team. Melksham, for his flaws, has been a constant part of our forward line, and clearly the FD and club rate his leadership. He's been scoring goals each week as well.

Throwing him to half-back, when he hasn't been training or playing there for ages, is not something I see helping us.

Ditto TMac to the wing: his mobility is shot.

2 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I will not be able to appreciate him until I watch him from my wing spot at the G. The TV coverage gives you little clue at the ground coverage.

I agree that I'm sure there's more off-the-ball work he does that we can't see on TV, but we can already get a strong sense of it just by noticing how frequently he's in the back pocket/flank as an outlet, but also on the forward flank delivering inside. Gut running, always.

[Hatchman 485]

Harmes looks exhausted. Has turned it over a lot in the last couple of games and could be rested. 

Lots of calls for Jones to be dropped... I must have watched a different game thought he played pretty well.

Can't work out who else to part ways for Max, although someone will have to.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

1 hour ago, Hatchman said:

Harmes looks exhausted. Has turned it over a lot in the last couple of games and could be rested. 

Lots of calls for Jones to be dropped... I must have watched a different game thought he played pretty well.

Can't work out who else to part ways for Max, although someone will have to.

I think It's reasonable to put Maxy back in at the expense of T Mac. I believe Jackson will be rested (as good as he was last night). We can all see what the future holds if Jackson keeps going on his current trajectory. He's a young guy with a ton of 'toe'. He obviously loves to play and might comfortably cope with the load but I hope he get's that break this week.

Harmes was a little unsighted but he will be given some sort of tagging role against the Pies so should be safe. 

[Pates 9,537]

2 hours ago, M_9 said:

No chance of Spargo being dropped. AVB similarly unlikely.

I wouldn’t go so far to say no chance, although the contributed mainly in a positive way vs Adelaide he would still be considered outside the 22, perhaps even outside the best 25. 

Spargo for Bennell is something I could easily see happening. 

[DemonLad5 1,640]

In: Lockhart, Viney, Gawn

out: Harmes, Jones, McDonald 

[58er 5,610]

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm really against these positional changes just for the sake of it.

We're desperate for continuity and gelling as a team. Melksham, for his flaws, has been a constant part of our forward line, and clearly the FD and club rate his leadership. He's been scoring goals each week as well.

Throwing him to half-back, when he hasn't been training or playing there for ages, is not something I see helping us.

Ditto TMac to the wing: his mobility is shot.

I agree that I'm sure there's more off-the-ball work he does that we can't see on TV, but we can already get a strong sense of it just by noticing how frequently he's in the back pocket/flank as an outlet, but also on the forward flank delivering inside. Gut running, always.

No no no 

Spargs to stay in Tom also Harmsey to have a rest!!

[58er 5,610]

10 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Not as the 3rd tall W.  He's only 4cm shorter than Tomlinson (as per the original posters' discussions) and 3cm vs May but has a VG leap.  He plays tall and creates run off his opponent as well.  Damaging player when he's on and a difficult match up for the opp.

He was our 2nd best intercept and rebound player in 2019 (on averages) just behind Lever and Salem respectively and well ahead of May, Hibb, Nev, Fritta, Frosty and Oscar.  He did have some ordinary games on occasions but nothing unusual for a rookie.

No hope for Marty as Rivers  has gone past him 

[Demon Dynasty 15,578]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

No hope for Marty as Rivers  has gone past him 

Uh not quite imo 58 but he's had a very nice debut that's for sure.  Very early days for both of these rookies with only 4 and 14 matches respectively. There's always hope!

Don't discount Marty just yet.  He's elite in the areas that count for a defender including rebound 50s, intercepts and 1%ers.

That's not to say Rivers won't get there and surpass either but i think a little more time is needed at this very early stage (for both) before jumping to the "he's gone past him" conclusion.  They may well end up both being fab players who end up surpassing and taking both flanks at some point.

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I1009378,CD_I996692&comparisonTab=h2h

[old dee 22,929]

I guess this is the result of starting the season playing poorly but according to my tv guide we are again a Foxtel game. Strange that Collingwood is not on FTA. I think we will have to make the GF to get a FTA game.

[Demon Dynasty 15,578]

16 minutes ago, old dee said:

I guess this is the result of starting the season playing poorly but according to my tv guide we are again a Foxtel game. Strange that Collingwood is not on FTA. I think we will have to make the GF to get a FTA game.

I'm happy with that OD.  The less i hear Bruce swooning over things like " it's going really close to THE BOUNNNNDARY LINNNNE!!" et al the better.

[deelusions from afar 1,613]

12 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

Because Tomlinson is not a CHB, and never will be. TMac is a better player than anyone else we've tried there this year, including his brother. Good key position players are rare, but I can think of various players who have moved from attack to defence and vice versa to suit their team's needs, e.g. Hardeman, Neitz, Knights, Glendinning. If TMac and May take the opposition talls, Lever becomes free to play his intercept role. I agree that it's unlikely to happen, but I reckon it's worth a try.

Agree re Tomlinson.  I'm sceptical that TMac back will work - but I think i Gawn comes in then a tall has to go out (or at least in the case of TMac or Tomlinson be moved to a wing) as the Weid/Jackson/Tmac forward line was tried and failed v Port.

It would be a great asset moving forward to have TMac in the team as a defender knowing that he could be switched forward if Weid / Jacko go down or are beaten by their opponent - but I think he's too slow, lost his agility and foot skills / decision making error are far more costly in defence than up forward.

Will be interesting to see what happens v the pies - TMac did enough to stay in the team... but I'm not sure if they have enough tall forwards to warrant him, Lever and May all in defence.

 

I think if not for injury, the answer would probably be Petty or Hore to support May and Lever.

 

 

[deelusions from afar 1,613]

16 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's a better field kick than you give him credit for and he's a better kick now than he was as a CHB.

I don't think he is - but would love to be proven wrong.  Players rarely improve their kicking over their careers - particularly after significant injury.  

My sense is that people think because he is a (mostly) reliable set shot for goal he has got better with his kicking.  But kicking to people who are moving between an opposition zone is a different skill.  I would actually feel safer if the ball was in his brother's hands in defence.

[Deemania since 56 6,171]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:03 PM, Roger Mellie said:

Agree with everything you said apart from this - 'dash'  and Tomlinson in the same sentence. He runs hard but, not by any stretch of the imagination is dash involved. He's lumbering. I'm not saying he should necessarily be dropped either.

Tomlinson, soon, with improved confidence and a better knowledge of our potencies will be a very handy asset in the two-way role of the best wingmen. He is already starting to position well to attract and receive in space - and metres-gained room. He can also take a grab against the opposition and tap the ball to the smalls. I see him as a driver of the ball in these regards, not a stop-start outside flanker.

[Deemania since 56 6,171]

27 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

Agree re Tomlinson.  I'm sceptical that TMac back will work - but I think i Gawn comes in then a tall has to go out (or at least in the case of TMac or Tomlinson be moved to a wing) as the Weid/Jackson/Tmac forward line was tried and failed v Port.

It would be a great asset moving forward to have TMac in the team as a defender knowing that he could be switched forward if Weid / Jacko go down or are beaten by their opponent - but I think he's too slow, lost his agility and foot skills / decision making error are far more costly in defence than up forward.

Will be interesting to see what happens v the pies - TMac did enough to stay in the team... but I'm not sure if they have enough tall forwards to warrant him, Lever and May all in defence.

 

I think if not for injury, the answer would probably be Petty or Hore to support May and Lever.

 

 

TMac is our best move at CHB - but it is difficult to await the return of Petty (and for that matter, Hore on the HBF instead of Harmes or Salem. What a waste! Goodwin, start thinking! TMac can run all day suited to the CHB who has the job of spoiling first to advantage, and then providing the intercept when possible - the second task does not really require blistering pace (although Hardeman did have it). It does require re-set, in the main. The roles of May and Lever are becoming more evident and the critical intercept-to-attack defensive moves are theirs, already coming to the fore. Both play nice team-tag with one another in that process. Rivers and Swallow add attitude and skills to the mix, and Hibberd cleans up delightfully but has few people (at present) to nail the footy down their throats - and it is potentially a bloody potent backline!

Edited August 11, 2020 by Deemania since 56

[spirit of norm smith 12,987]

7 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

In: Lockhart, Viney, Gawn

out: Harmes, Jones, McDonald 

Yes this is likely.  Though Vandenburg (teachers pet) and Melksham would be very lucky. Hard to drop Melksham after making him the “stand in skipper”. Spargo and Swallow were okay so they deserve another run. 

outs  : 

Tommy mcd -  not in the zone right now. Looks slower than ever. He only stays in if gawn fails the fitness test 

Jones - played a good game but could be squeezed out. Maybe we list him as “managed”.

Harmesy - one of my favourite blokes. Lives for the MFC. But he’s definitely out of form.  I’d love to see him tag Sidebottom this week as he has the fitness and grunt to take up the job. 

[TRIGON 4,719]

12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Ditto TMac to the wing: his mobility is shot.

Agreed, really seems to be struggling.

Fortunately for us both Jackson and Weideman have good agility below the knees (for big men) which adds to their forward potency. 

 

[Vipercrunch 2,816]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:27 PM, Hell Bent said:

I agree. Team high 7 tackles, coaches love that.  I'm not so sure he gets dropped next week.

He did look a little sore at times though but otherwise I think he was more than serviceable . 

I noticed that also.  Looked lower back related maybe?  Just didn't move smootly.  Played ok though.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

In  - Viney, Gawn, Lockhart

Out -  T Mac, AVB, Jones

I was tossing up between Harmes and Jones but Harmes should be given the task to shut down Sidebottom

[Vipercrunch 2,816]

I could be on my own here, but surely using the Port game as evidence that LJ, Weeds and TMac can't work is not super clever.  The whole team played terribly that night and the magnitude and manner of the lose simply cannot be attributed to playing 3 talls in any possible way. 

[kallangurdemon 470]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:55 PM, cantstandyasam said:

I'd like us to bring in Bennell for some outside class I think maybe AVB needs a rest.

AVB got through the whole  game without breaking a single bone so he will be primed for Saturday night .Both he and Bennell are slow but unlike Bennell AVB plays without any thought of self preservation and his grunt is  much needed .

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, kallangurdemon said:

AVB got through the whole  game without breaking a single bone so he will be primed for Saturday night .Both he and Bennell are slow but unlike Bennell AVB plays without any thought of self preservation and his grunt is  much needed .

AVB plays without any thought.

[binman 38,499]

34 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

AVB plays without any thought.

He is a zen master

[buck_nekkid 5,504]

TMac laid 7 tackles, but it looked like the message was that if you were his opponent, to immediately run and carry.  It showed up his decided lack of pace.

TMac at CHF, max dropping back behind the ball and Weid/Jacko forward could work, depending upon conditions.  Who do we drop to try it?  You would think that Jack Viney and Max are automatic ins if available.  Then it comes down to who goes out/gets rested.  Hard to pick at this stage.

[640MD 2,817]

When a team wins by 50+ points,  there are not going to be many changes !!

[binman 38,499]

1 minute ago, buck_nekkid said:

TMac laid 7 tackles, but it looked like the message was that if you were his opponent, to immediately run and carry.  It showed up his decided lack of pace.

TMac at CHF, max dropping back behind the ball and Weid/Jacko forward could work, depending upon conditions.  Who do we drop to try it?  You would think that Jack Viney and Max are automatic ins if available.  Then it comes down to who goes out/gets rested.  Hard to pick at this stage.

I was totally agin selecting Tmac for the roos game but in hindsight see the logic of giving him some time in a real game of AFL football, in a game we should have been very confident to win.

Given there is no VFL games and it is really not possible to organise any meaningful scratch matches (goody said they had dome some work with a SANFL side?) how else could they get miles and match fitness into TMac? And he clearly needs it.

But the bolded bit in the quote is spot on. When he played up forward his defender was running off him at every opportunity. The pies would do exactly the same.And it would hurt us more.

And i'm amazed at any suggestion of him playing down back. Down back, his lack of mobility would be completely exploited and as Tomlinson has shown, with defensive zones and systems it is no easy thing to simply slot into the back six when you have not been training or playing there.

i have been pretty harsh on tmac, perhaps unfairly so. He remains a key player for us and if we make finals and if he can get close to full fitness and his his normal mobility he may prove a difference maker. 

But he is a way off that i reckon. So can't see him play this week if max is fit (and maybe even if he isn't) or the following week. But maybe they might play him against the bombers if they are confident of a win going into that game.