Training - Wednesday 5th June, 2019

[bing181 8,166]

1 minute ago, Gorgoroth said:

And golfers have professional help during practice to ensure correct technique, like many sports, just not MFC and their love of 1.8 qtrs

Firstly, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and secondly, it's worth noting that almost no AFL clubs employ specialist kicking coaches. Certainly none of the leading clubs do (from what I can see).

[Gorgoroth 12,319]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Because there's a difference between acquiring/consolidating skills and being able to execute those skills regardless of the circumstances. And not just in sport either.

It's not an anti-training position, just a recognition that training-track training has its limits.

Of course it has it limits, but  you have a sound routine and that fails on game day then you aren’t up to it. 

Id rather them actually have a goal kicking coach that gives them a sound routine they practice weekly than just throwing the foot at the ball Petracca style and see how it goes on game day.

[Gorgoroth 12,319]

2 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Firstly, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and secondly, it's worth noting that almost no AFL clubs employ specialist kicking coaches. Certainly none of the leading clubs do (from what I can see).

So be the first. We bloody need it, our goal kicking from our actual forwards is putrid.

[Superunknown 3,314]

41 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes the great forwards talk of developing a technique and a routine that stands up under pressure. Professional golfers all have a repeatable putting routine, so it should be for set shots for goal. Practice makes perfect they say! As long as you practice the correct technique of course. 

Golfers in general have a repeatable everything routine . Mine never ever changed except that time I reached for my PW forgetting I had just thrown it into the dam at the 8th at Gisborne 

[Cards13 9,117]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

You can practice goal kicking at training till the cows come home, completely different in a game

Yea the Dunstall’s, Lockett’s and Hudson’s should have go it wrong.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Firstly, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and secondly, it's worth noting that almost no AFL clubs employ specialist kicking coaches. Certainly none of the leading clubs do (from what I can see).

You would think a professional player wanting to be kept on the list,  would be doing everything to improve...  especially his kicking skills.  On both sides of the body.  

I would be hiring,  or asking for help from AFL respected kickers, outside of Training times,  in my own time.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Yea the Dunstall’s, Lockett’s and Hudson’s should have go it wrong.

Dunstall and Lockett were tremendous technicians and champion forwards. Hudson will do me at full forward for the dees. He had a massive bum too, which helped him out bustle his opponents. Maybe Weideman could develop a Hudsonesque backside and study old vision of Hudson kicking for goal.

[DV8 2,271]

25 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

Dunstall and Lockett were tremendous technicians and champion forwards. Hudson will do me at full forward for the dees. He had a massive bum too, which helped him out bustle his opponents. Maybe Weideman could develop a Hudsonesque backside and study old vision of Hudson kicking for goal.

Weigh down the back of the car,  by puttin some junk in the trunk, hey.

[DeeSpencer 23,133]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Firstly, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and secondly, it's worth noting that almost no AFL clubs employ specialist kicking coaches. Certainly none of the leading clubs do (from what I can see).

The only goal kicking coaches I know of are:
Carlton - Sav Rocca
St Kilda - Ben Dixon

The most well known kicking coach was David Rath at Hawthorn - the biomechanist who really set them apart with kicking as well as other smart tactics. He now works for the AFL.

This isn't a bad video for anyone stuck in the 1990's who can't understand how footy has changed.

Should we have a specialist kicking or goal kicking coach? I'm not opposed to the idea.

Should we make sure all goal kicking training is done under game like scenarios, with routine and reviewed - that's a yes to me.

[picket fence 15,163]

6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Hore, Viney, Lever and Hannan didn't train

Salem is fine

Lewis trained strongly 

You can practice goal kicking at training till the cows come home, completely different in a game

Why??

[FireInTheBennelly 4,024]

I'm not sure why we do any training at all, it's all been done a thousand times already. Call it off for the rest of the year.

Wait, hold on. Maybe we could try to do some shepherding. Because that's never, freakin ever, happening for us!!!

Looking forward to the next training report. Players sat on their dates for 3 hours, because it's all been done before and the bleeding cows never came home.

Fair dinkum, I don't understand what some people are thinking before they post, regularly.

[buck_nekkid 5,485]

One of the big issues with goal kicking in the modern game is that instead of a forward resting on the fence with a ciggy until the ball comes down, forwards are running huge distances, doing repeat sprint efforts and being smashed in contests prior to needing to calm themselves, find their routine and do a different type fo skill.  Think of Biatholons, where athletes have outrageous heart rates, then have to consciously calm themselves super quick to shoot accurately.

It is more than just technique, more than just pressure (although the mental stuff certainly comes into play).  It is being fit enough to be able to switch between high intensity and accuracy type skills in the 30 seconds, having a routine with replicable skills that can be deployed consistently, and the smarts to make a good assessment of the kick that is required (ie, Jeffie, not always some dribbler off the outside of the boot, but a drop punt FFS).  Goal kicking is harder now than it has ever been with the nature and speed of the game.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,404]

14 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

One of the big issues with goal kicking in the modern game is that instead of a forward resting on the fence with a ciggy until the ball comes down, forwards are running huge distances, doing repeat sprint efforts and being smashed in contests prior to needing to calm themselves, find their routine and do a different type fo skill.  Think of Biatholons, where athletes have outrageous heart rates, then have to consciously calm themselves super quick to shoot accurately.

It is more than just technique, more than just pressure (although the mental stuff certainly comes into play).  It is being fit enough to be able to switch between high intensity and accuracy type skills in the 30 seconds, having a routine with replicable skills that can be deployed consistently, and the smarts to make a good assessment of the kick that is required (ie, Jeffie, not always some dribbler off the outside of the boot, but a drop punt FFS).  Goal kicking is harder now than it has ever been with the nature and speed of the game.

I like this argument. It also allows us to blame the AFL for the decrease in accuracy due to its incessant mantra that the game needs to be "sped up". It's not that long ago that forwards were given more than 30 seconds to take their set shots. 

[Demon17 4,557]

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

Why??

Good question. No point trac practising when his ball drop/technique is fundamentally flawed.

[binman 38,076]

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

One of the big issues with goal kicking in the modern game is that instead of a forward resting on the fence with a ciggy until the ball comes down, forwards are running huge distances, doing repeat sprint efforts and being smashed in contests prior to needing to calm themselves, find their routine and do a different type fo skill.  Think of Biatholons, where athletes have outrageous heart rates, then have to consciously calm themselves super quick to shoot accurately.

It is more than just technique, more than just pressure (although the mental stuff certainly comes into play).  It is being fit enough to be able to switch between high intensity and accuracy type skills in the 30 seconds, having a routine with replicable skills that can be deployed consistently, and the smarts to make a good assessment of the kick that is required (ie, Jeffie, not always some dribbler off the outside of the boot, but a drop punt FFS).  Goal kicking is harder now than it has ever been with the nature and speed of the game.

Spot on buck.

I'm amazed that this is seemingly never pointed out by the so called experts in the footy media, who are mostly ex footballers.  I posted a coupe of weeks back about Lyon bagging kicking for goals by current player and noted he spent almost all of his time in the forward 50 and probably ran no more than a 2-3 ks a game. 

The fitness issue doesn't just impact on goal kicking it also impacts on field kicking.

it is hard to argue they should practice goal (and field) kicking more but the real issue i reckon is how many players come to footy with woeful technique. This must be a coaching issue in juniors.

I mean how does a player like Trac, one of the best junior footballers in the country, get to the AFL with such a shocking technique?  By that time is is too late to change it, other than tinkering around the edges.

Poor technique is exposed by fatigue (and variables like slippery conditions for that matter). 

 

[Demon trucker 1,769]

3 hours ago, binman said:

Spot on buck.

I'm amazed that this is seemingly never pointed out by the so called experts in the footy media, who are mostly ex footballers.  I posted a coupe of weeks back about Lyon bagging kicking for goals by current player and noted he spent almost all of his time in the forward 50 and probably ran no more than a 2-3 ks a game. 

The fitness issue doesn't just impact on goal kicking it also impacts on field kicking.

it is hard to argue they should practice goal (and field) kicking more but the real issue i reckon is how many players come to footy with woeful technique. This must be a coaching issue in juniors.

I mean how does a player like Trac, one of the best junior footballers in the country, get to the AFL with such a shocking technique?  By that time is is too late to change it, other than tinkering around the edges.

Poor technique is exposed by fatigue (and variables like slippery conditions for that matter). 

 

I don't think trac technique is that bad, how come when ever he kicks from 40 meters + his kicks are dead straight, he needs a sports psychologist more than a king coach

[bing181 8,166]

15 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

I'm not sure why we do any training at all, it's all been done a thousand times already. Call it off for the rest of the year.

....

Welcome to Demonland, a place where all ideas are mutually exclusive, where there is no context, no nuance, and where affirming A automatically denies the possibility of B ... even if you didn't mention B in the first place. 

[binman 38,076]

25 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

I don't think trac technique is that bad, how come when ever he kicks from 40 meters + his kicks are dead straight, he needs a sports psychologist more than a king coach

Speaking of making people angry insert giph of John McEnroe here.

Trac has a terrible kicking technique. He drops the ball from near his waist.

Compare and contrast his style to Salem who practically places the ball on his foot (as should happen). No mystery why he is so much better at kicking the ball. 

Agree that he has a psych issue though. The problem is if you combine poor technique with the yips you get on the full from 30 metres out dead in front

 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Speaking of making people angry insert giph of John McEnroe here.

Trac has a terrible kicking technique. He drops the ball from near his waist.

Compare and contrast his style to Salem who practically places the ball on his foot (as should happen). No mystery why he is so much better at kicking the ball. 

Agree that he has a psych issue though. The problem is if you combine poor technique with the yips you get on the full from 30 metres out dead in front

 

My point is I have watched training since the start of presason, they practice goal kicking every session, most times they slot them, even from different distances and difficult angles, come game day though....

.  and the explanation is?

[Redleg 37,598]

24 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

My point is I have watched training since the start of presason, they practice goal kicking every session, most times they slot them, even from different distances and difficult angles, come game day though....

.  and the explanation is?

Fitness, technique and mental fragility.

[picket fence 15,163]

7 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Good question. No point trac practising when his ball drop/technique is fundamentally flawed.

Precisely!!

[Bitter but optimistic 21,253]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:35 AM, Demon17 said:

Good question. No point trac practising when his ball drop/technique is fundamentally flawed.

Yes. As a golf pro said to me regarding my multi flawed technique - " Practice makes permanent"

[binman 38,076]

22 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

My point is I have watched training since the start of presason, they practice goal kicking every session, most times they slot them, even from different distances and difficult angles, come game day though....

.  and the explanation is?

Well my post that you quoted refers to trac. And I thought I made it pretty clear the explanation for why he is a rubbish kick is he has a poor technique.

And that explanation cover 80% of our team unfortunately.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

10 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Yes. As a golf pro said to me regarding my multi flawed technique - " Practice makes permanent"

Yes Uncle I know what your saying. I stopped playing golf about 10 years ago after a year of intensive faulty practice that ingrained a slice off my tee shot and the next approach shot, basically my game was shot. Thus the use by many golfers of a swing doctor to detect any changes in their swing that may lead to errors under the pressure of competitive play. Is set shot goal kicking similar in that kicking techniques can change slightly without the player realising and suddenly, a la TMac, they can’t kick straight? I think so, thus my query about the lack of review of goal kicking technique by our key forwards. Yes they may kick freely at practice but freeze up, tighten up in a game and hook the ball off line.  

golfers have to deal with this to make a living, how to make the clutch putt on payday. They have to stay loose and go through their routine and not think of the consequences of failure. 

[rjay 23,912]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:18 PM, binman said:

I mean how does a player like Trac, one of the best junior footballers in the country, get to the AFL with such a shocking technique?

 

On 6/6/2019 at 3:58 PM, binman said:

Trac has a terrible kicking technique. He drops the ball from near his waist.

Does he have the same ball drop in his field kicking?

I'm not sure he does, but worth having a look at.

If it's different then it should be easier to transfer his approach across...