Fans Behaving Badly?

[Willmoy1947 3,968]

10 hours ago, DeeZee said:

I shouted out ,”Ya hairy [censored]!”,yesterday a few times and didn’t get kicked out.

Well, you couldn't have been talking about Maggots because they don't have "hair".

[pineapple dee 2,892]

12 hours ago, binman said:

Worthy of a permanent ban from this site. Xenophobia a clear breach of the code of conduct and someone with such a pathetic world view isn't going to change.

 

I would like to have banned from demonland anyone who has any sort of phobia, not just the popular ones either. I would especially love to see excluded those who suffer from hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia. I hate those people.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

20 hours ago, daisycutter said:

still thought it a trip. one angle seemed much more clear. remember anything below the waist is illegal (tripping)

I think he dropped the ball before he was tripped. One of the quirks of the rules of our great game is that for some offences, the first rule breach applies; for others, a subsequent breach applies, and I don't think there's any science to it. It's just what the umpire decides on the day. For example, in this case if I'm correct and Hore had dropped the ball before he was tripped, the first rule breach was penalised. On the other hand, how many times on Saturday did we see a player caught holding the ball but receive a free for a subsequent push in the back when he collapsed from the tackle? 

[daisycutter 29,336]

6 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think he dropped the ball before he was tripped. One of the quirks of the rules of our great game is that for some offences, the first rule breach applies; for others, a subsequent breach applies, and I don't think there's any science to it. It's just what the umpire decides on the day. For example, in this case if I'm correct and Hore had dropped the ball before he was tripped, the first rule breach was penalised. On the other hand, how many times on Saturday did we see a player caught holding the ball but receive a free for a subsequent push in the back when he collapsed from the tackle? 

yes, that's probably/possibly true. haven't gone back and replayed it intensely to check

talking of a free being reversed for an opposite free, i've always thought that the second free should just cancel the original free, resulting in a ball-up. otherwise it is effectively a double penalty. i even have a recollection back in my dim history that this was how it was adjudicated (i.e. a ball-up) but i probably just dreamt that

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

yes, that's probably/possibly true. haven't gone back and replayed it intensely to check

talking of a free being reversed for an opposite free, i've always thought that the second free should just cancel the original free, resulting in a ball-up. otherwise it is effectively a double penalty. i even have a recollection back in my dim history that this was how it was adjudicated (i.e. a ball-up) but i probably just dreamt that

I seem to recall many more ball-ups in the past when there was a possibility of a free being awarded both ways. I suspect the powers that be would rather that a free kick be paid to avoid the ugliness that ball-ups tend to bring to the game so have instructed the umpires to pay a free whenever possible.

And here's some free advice for the AFL. To get rid of some of the ugliness in the game, get rid of the ruckman being nominated. Too often the game is delayed, particularly for boundary throw-ins, while the field umpires wait for the lumbering nominated ruckmen to arrive. Another problem occurred in Saturday's game, too. Viney had to run away from a short boundary throw in rather than do the intuitively smarter play which would have been to just grab the ball and play on. If he'd done that, he would have been penalised for not being the nominated ruckman.    

[Willmoy1947 3,968]

Melbourne get "play on's" from frees just when they are about to be caught....Fact.

[Smokey 4,345]

On 6/18/2019 at 9:32 PM, Dame Gaga said:

I heard some of Gil's press conference at 2pm today. He sure doesn't like being asked questions by journalists. He got very defensive and bristled at suggestions the fans were upset by the presence of the security guards patrolling the aisles. He said this practice had always been going on, for 20 years! and he made no apologies for making the football safe and family friendly. Well yes Gil, the security have been doing their little patrols from time to time (usually in the first quarter then you don't see them again), but not like we have seen lately. They look like prison guards keeping an eye on the trouble makers who may be a bit loud. 

He kept harping on about how it was the AFL's responsibility to make sure going to the football was a safe and family friendly experience. Then in nearly the same breath he placed the blame on the stadium management for being heavy handed. Which is it?

Yes, we agree it should be a safe and enjoyable environment, but you don't squash a flea with a wrecking ball. 

Here's a thought Gil. I have said it before and I will say it again. Increase the amount of alcohol free areas for fans, and do not have the alcohol areas immediately above the non alcohol areas, or we have fans being abused from above from others who have been fed too much alcohol. Perhaps alcohol should not be sold in the last quarter, because towards the end of the game the trouble seems to start.

Ideally alcohol should be banned altogether, just as smoking was. But that would mean a loss of money wouldn't it? Making football safe and family friendly? Sounds like lip service to me. Politician speak. The bottom line is always money.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin. 

And before anyone asks - yes, beer is absolutely an essential liberty. End of story. 

[ManDee 7,124]

15 minutes ago, Smokey said:

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin. 

And before anyone asks - yes, beer is absolutely an essential liberty. End of story. 

But alcoholic beer is not.The name says it all 

[Smokey 4,345]

24 minutes ago, ManDee said:

But alcoholic beer is not.The name says it all 

These would have been hilarious if Carlton ended up with 0 wins for the season

[daisycutter 29,336]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I seem to recall many more ball-ups in the past when there was a possibility of a free being awarded both ways. I suspect the powers that be would rather that a free kick be paid to avoid the ugliness that ball-ups tend to bring to the game so have instructed the umpires to pay a free whenever possible.

And here's some free advice for the AFL. To get rid of some of the ugliness in the game, get rid of the ruckman being nominated. Too often the game is delayed, particularly for boundary throw-ins, while the field umpires wait for the lumbering nominated ruckmen to arrive. Another problem occurred in Saturday's game, too. Viney had to run away from a short boundary throw in rather than do the intuitively smarter play which would have been to just grab the ball and play on. If he'd done that, he would have been penalised for not being the nominated ruckman.    

if he did touch it and it was a bad thrown in then common sense says ump should just order a new throw in. yeah i know common sense is a strange concept to the afl

[Demonland 70,281]

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

if he did touch it and it was a bad thrown in then common sense says ump should just order a new throw in. yeah i know common sense is a strange concept to the afl

But that would be logical. Earlier this year I remember a game where a short throw-in was grabbed by someone other than a nominated ruckman and in so doing gave away a free kick. I can't remember the game or even whether Melbourne was involved.

[Dee Zephyr 19,158]

Where does this rank for disgusting behaviour?

https://apple.news/Azdfc0w2rSJO-NMnFJZH02Q

[Demonstone 21,784]

That's taking slagging off the opposition fans a tad too far.

[Lucifers Hero 38,984]

Posters who thought some security guards at Marvel were on student visas are on the money: security-guards-banned-over-alleged-accreditation-fraud:

"Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds of security guards who have had their licences suspended as part of an alleged fraud...about 400 guards working across the security industry over allegations that “false, forged and/or fraudulently obtained documentation” was used to obtain their security licences."

"Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry...Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications".

Kennett's racial stereotyping comments were totally inappropriate but reading "It's become a joke really. You've got registered training organisations churning out graduates who can't even use a radio, let alone defuse a dangerous situation...“And a lot of the foreign blokes don't have any English [language skills], which makes it hard for them to deal with crowds," the source said" ...makes you wonder if he knew something was up.  

Regardless of ethnicity, it looks like training of security guards leaves a lot to be desired.  Could be dangerous for all concerned if scuffles break out and get out of control.

So much for the due diligence by the AFL and Marvel management into who they contract with. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[hemingway 7,615]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Posters who thought some security guards at Marvel were on student visas are on the money: security-guards-banned-over-alleged-accreditation-fraud:

"Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds of security guards who have had their licences suspended as part of an alleged fraud...about 400 guards working across the security industry over allegations that “false, forged and/or fraudulently obtained documentation” was used to obtain their security licences."

"Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry...Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications".

Kennett's racial stereotyping comments were totally inappropriate but reading "It's become a joke really. You've got registered training organisations churning out graduates who can't even use a radio, let alone defuse a dangerous situation...“And a lot of the foreign blokes don't have any English [language skills], which makes it hard for them to deal with crowds," the source said" ...makes you wonder if he knew something was up.  

Regardless of ethnicity, it looks like training of security guards leaves a lot to be desired.  Could be dangerous for all concerned if scuffles break out and get out of control.

So much for the due diligence by the AFL and Marvel management into who they contract with. 

This is no surprise.

Generally there has been a lowering of standards across the board in many occupations. 

It not only applies to training and education standards but also regulatory authorities.

There is a great deal of pressure to pass students or grant registrations in many occupations due to the business driven (profit) ethic that now applies and due to bureaucratic corruption or manipulation. 

For many overseas students and workers there is an expectation that if you pay for a course or certificate you will pass or be accredited. If this does not happen , there are claims that the particular person or group is being discriminated due to race. 

Security has been notorious for many years. Many security guards are only guards in name. They have little or no training and many would run the other way to avoid confrontation.  Cultural differences are also relevant in how individuals behave in any given situation.

But the problem applies in most sectors with a general lowering of standards to accommodate individuals and groups. 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Posters who thought some security guards at Marvel were on student visas are on the money: security-guards-banned-over-alleged-accreditation-fraud:

"Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds of security guards who have had their licences suspended as part of an alleged fraud...about 400 guards working across the security industry over allegations that “false, forged and/or fraudulently obtained documentation” was used to obtain their security licences."

"Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry...Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications".

Kennett's racial stereotyping comments were totally inappropriate but reading "It's become a joke really. You've got registered training organisations churning out graduates who can't even use a radio, let alone defuse a dangerous situation...“And a lot of the foreign blokes don't have any English [language skills], which makes it hard for them to deal with crowds," the source said" ...makes you wonder if he knew something was up.  

Regardless of ethnicity, it looks like training of security guards leaves a lot to be desired.  Could be dangerous for all concerned if scuffles break out and get out of control.

So much for the due diligence by the AFL and Marvel management into who they contract with. 

I'm not sure if Acquire Learning still functions, but wouldn't it be amusing (or not) if there was a link between this story and Acquire, given the role Andrew Demetriou had at Acquire. 

[Biffen 12,839]

I’m always right.

Monnshadow- I expect your sincere and humble apology to follow shortly.

Never let moral superiority and virtue signaling stand in front of the bleeding and painfully obvious truth.

[Sorry kids 635]

Hello to those on here who ridiculed me when I said there was likely something illegal going on with the security guards employment at the footy.

Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry.

Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications.

[Moonshadow 17,551]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

I’m always right.

Monnshadow- I expect your sincere and humble apology to follow shortly.

Never let moral superiority and virtue signaling stand in front of the bleeding and painfully obvious truth.

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

No one denied there wasn't any kind of problem, and I'm amazed (actually, I wish I was amazed) that people still refuse to believe media articles that don't suit their agenda, but then immediately jump into misquoting ones that they think fit with what they want to say.

The article says: "Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds..."

Nowhere in the article does it say any of the following:

'All Marvel Stadium security personnel are new Australians'

'All Marvel Stadium security personnel are Indian students'

And do you know why the articles doens't say that? Because it's not true, and because it is flat out racist to make assumptions like that based on an anecdotal glance across a TV screen.

I understand that social media and forums etc have become places where people ditch understanding and nuance and just try to be as outrageous as they can within their limited character space, but let's grow up a bit hey.

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Lord Nev

[ManDee 7,124]

On 6/18/2019 at 12:35 PM, Sorry kids said:

The same suspicion I had with Seven Eleven workers, Service Station workers and other industries where young Indians dominate a profession. All found to be being employed illegally and the majority on Student Visas or work permits.

 

10 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Hello to those on here who ridiculed me when I said there was likely something illegal going on with the security guards employment at the footy.

Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry.

Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications.

You were ridiculed for being wrong. 

[binman 41,966]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

No one denied there wasn't any kind of problem, and I'm amazed (actually, I wish I was amazed) that people still refuse to believe media articles that don't suit their agenda, but then immediately jump into misquoting ones that they think fit with what they want to say.

The article says: "Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds..."

Nowhere in the article does it say any of the following:

'All Marvel Stadium security personnel are new Australians'

'All Marvel Stadium security personnel are Indian students'

And do you know why the articles doens't say that? Because it's not true, and because it is flat out racist to make assumptions like that based on an anecdotal glance across a TV screen.

I understand that social media and forums etc have become places where people ditch understanding and nuance and just try to be as outrageous as they can within their limited character space, but let's grow up a bit hey.

 

Indeed.

What the article does show is, as i previously noted, this issue has nothing to do with ethnicity or the fact some (i stress some) of the security guards might be international students and everything to do with a lack of training and a poorly regulated industry full of cowboys and rogue operators.

Who cares where a security guard is from or whether they are a student (international or otherwise) or not? The only relevant issue is whether they have the required capabilities, training and support to do the job. And i would suggest most don't.

Making this about race just suits the dog whistling agenda of people who can't see past their own xenophobia and rank nationalism. The same people, who without a hint of irony, feel they are the voice of the silent majority pushing back against some mythological leftist , liberal, PC conspiracy. 

(On that last point if there is indeed a conspiracy that cabal are doing an appalling job of it given the worlds democracies are lurching to the right, nationalism is on the rise, persecution and demonizing of the press is rampant and the most powerful media company in the world - and in Australia - by a country mile openly pushes a hard right agenda.Perhaps they are playing a very, very, very long game. )

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by binman

[Fork 'em 6,940]

Surprise, surprise, another lecture from one of our resident Loonie Lefties.
What a load of one-eyed carp.
And you wonder why there's push back.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Fork 'em

[low flying Robbo 979]

On 6/27/2019 at 9:42 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Posters who thought some security guards at Marvel were on student visas are on the money: security-guards-banned-over-alleged-accreditation-fraud:

"Some of Marvel Stadium’s controversial crowd controllers are among hundreds of security guards who have had their licences suspended as part of an alleged fraud...about 400 guards working across the security industry over allegations that “false, forged and/or fraudulently obtained documentation” was used to obtain their security licences."

"Industry sources say many of the guards were on international student visas and required further references to obtain accreditation to work in the industry...Instead of doing that, they are said to have paid hundreds of dollars to a man police are now trying to locate who allegedly helped them falsify applications".

Kennett's racial stereotyping comments were totally inappropriate but reading "It's become a joke really. You've got registered training organisations churning out graduates who can't even use a radio, let alone defuse a dangerous situation...“And a lot of the foreign blokes don't have any English [language skills], which makes it hard for them to deal with crowds," the source said" ...makes you wonder if he knew something was up.  

Regardless of ethnicity, it looks like training of security guards leaves a lot to be desired.  Could be dangerous for all concerned if scuffles break out and get out of control.

So much for the due diligence by the AFL and Marvel management into who they contract with. 

I work in the technical security business and I had to go complete part of a course with guys who were doing Cert 3 in Technical Security. While there I witnessed some training in the Security Guards course and lets just say I was a little worried about the training being delivered....