Post Match Discussion - Round 8

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

17 minutes ago, Franky_31 said:

Weid's 6 possessions were playing his role? Spare me. We need to get better, carrying Weiderman is ridiculous. Pull the other one.

I'm going in to bat for a broader understanding of a 'role' - so this is not even about Weiderman per se. @Franky_31 in your opinion, why is Weiderman being carried? What Should the stats for a reliveing ruckman come forward be, per game,  in 2018? But also, the unseen , luring a player away to create space... (a new stat should the gang from champion data be purusing)

Edited May 13, 2018 by Danelska

[deelete my account 1,194]

I agree that Weid has been playing a crucial role in freeing up Tmac and Hogan, and of course has had low impact as he's developing, but Weid for Viney is a bit silly structure wise.

 

If Weid was to be omitted then perhaps we should look at a mature developmental replacement like Tim Smith. At least in that instance , we're hedging our bets on two players getting some good goes at snr level.Then at worst, you've got a player who's shown something and provides trade value if he is poached for opportunities. Or if staying, adds to list having super interchangeable depth should Weid be injured.

Pedo at this stage is not hedging a bet as he'll be gone soon. Vfl watchers: Tim Smith?

 

Having said all this I don't think now is time as we have a crucial match v Adelaide in two weeks , and should be settled 22.

Edited May 13, 2018 by John Demonic

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

As good as the dominance yesterday was and at the risk of spoiling everyone's party we haven't beaten anyone yet. Maybe North but Brisbane, Gold Coast, Essendon and St Kilda currently 14th, 15th, 16th and 18th on the ladder. 

We play the 17th team, Carlton, this week.

So while it is pleasing to have the opportunity to get some percentage, some wins and gain confidence playing footy our way, some of the over the top commentary on here is totally and utterly ridiculous.

Get a grip.

This is the kind of post that really makes me want to avoid fan forums. Why do people need to rain on other's enjoyment? Is there really anything wrong with just enjoying a few wins after the past 10 years we have had?

'People need to get a grip', yes.People like you. We are not the FD we are just fans, our enjoyment will not cause the team to lose or become overconfident, it will just cause us to enjoy the experience of being Demons fans. Maybe our enjoyment could be infectious, it might even encourage others to join us and enjoy the ride. How terrible would that be?!

Maybe just try sitting on your negativity a bit and enjoy it when we win. I don't think that would be such a bad thing. I promise it won't have a negative effect on the teams performance next week.

[Damo 3,356]

There is only so much work you can do to assist your teammates while on the ground. 6 possessions in total is hard to convince that he is worth his role. It sounds like Tim Smith or Pedo would do better. We are having a winning streak but watching North today (for example) we need to be more ruthless.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

More necessity then design I think. TMacs injury really screwed our structures in the early rounds

I meant that the small forward line in the early rounds was more necessity than design (it didn't seem clear on reading it back)

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

1 minute ago, Franky_31 said:

There is only so much work you can do to assist your teammates while on the ground. 6 possessions in total is hard to convince that he is worth his role. It sounds like Tim Smith or Pedo would do better. We are having a winning streak but watching North today (for example) we need to be more ruthless.

 

i invite you to look at Weidermans ruthlessness in drawing a player so Charlie Spargo has time to at least set up for a goal (irrespective of outcome).

[jnrmac 20,065]

23 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

This is the kind of post that really makes me want to avoid fan forums. Why do people need to rain on other's enjoyment? Is there really anything wrong with just enjoying a few wins after the past 10 years we have had?

'People need to get a grip', yes.People like you. We are not the FD we are just fans, our enjoyment will not cause the team to lose or become overconfident, it will just cause us to enjoy the experience of being Demons fans. Maybe our enjoyment could be infectious, it might even encourage others to join us and enjoy the ride. How terrible would that be?!

 Maybe just try sitting on your negativity a bit and enjoy it when we win. I don't think that would be such a bad thing. I promise it won't have a negative effect on the teams performance next week.

Feel free to avoid fan forums if you don't like opinions.

Its about keeping the wins in perspective. We've done nothing yet.

 

 

 

[Gator 17,357]

Those that want to replace Weideman with Pedersen are the same morons who don't rate Goodwin.

The investment being made in Weideman will pay off big time.  It gives Gawn a rest and Tom McDonald doesn't need to be wasted in the ruck. 

Weideman was quiet, but will get better and better. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, deanox said:

Sorry, I just saw the short reply and didn't realise there was more to come. 

I am happy to admit that I like Weid as I think he has some good attributes and want him to succeed. I agree that we want to see him lift his statistical output especially in terms of marks around the ground.

But from watching games I see a young bloke working hard.  I see a young bloke who is rarely used as a target.  And I see 3 consecutive wins where our other 3 talls have flourished.

To me the things aren't isolated.  Drop Weid and what happens to our structures? I feel he has been playing a big role in that success, regardless of his statistical performance. 

I haven't seen him do anything wrong. He isn't losing many contests.  Doesnt make mistakes with the few disposals he gets.  He doesn't get in the way of the other key forwards.

I'm genuinely interested in what others are seeing. If it just that you think Pedo offers more, that's fine.  I can accept that, although I'm not sure I agree (as Nasher said Pedo plays best info a no.1 role not as a support). But I dont understand the criticism of the Weids game and haven't seen anyone explain i the criticism other than by highlighting his low disposal count. 

I don't see Pedders as an auto in vs Weids Ox to be honest.  or Bull, or anyone.  Just want to see the player that is most capable of impacting at AFL level more often than not and whoever is in the better form at that particular time.  Pedders, Bull, Weids (Bart Simpson!) i really don't care as long as they are performing most matches and having an impact.

A few examples of how i'm looking at yesterday's match from him....

1st quarter approx 12:00 to go ....involvement where he spoils from behind, cleans up his own crumb, avoids a player on the inside and handballs inboard to Spargo for the goal.  Very nice decision making and execution for the assist.  Can see he has the poise and ability to be special right there and what the FD have been excited about.

2nd Quarter approx 16:45 to go .... handball receive in the clear from Clarry inside 50.  Has Spargo short or Melk out the back.  Just enough time to assess & execute but delivers between both into no man's land.  Rischitelli mops up for the turnover...scoring opportunity missed.

Start of 3rd....first 3 minutes.  No Weids.  Forward line functioning fine for 2 successive goals before he is rotated on.  Could be just coincidence but just saying ....he isn't necessarily a "lock" for forward structure / success as a "must have 3rd tall" option as some on here are constantly suggesting.

Apart from some reasonable ruck relief efforts and a few other cameos where he is clean with a kick, handball or two (the handball for the run in goal after the Melkshem kick to top of square for example was nice and clean) i don't see him impacting much from his own efforts after that first quarter Ox.

This could just be an experience / AFL tank issue.  Sometimes years before players get to a certain level (especially through the legs / body) that will see them impact more weeks than not at elite level over 4 quarters.  If you are happy to see him having a good game then an average one (or two) and you think the team can afford to carry that then by all means keep playing him and getting games into him.  I just think some of that experience can be happening at VFL level if there's a more in form option tearing it up at Casey or a major in like Viney and having him out wont really impact the team in a significant way.

I've included the ProStats link as a reference (just put Fritsch in as i had to include an extra to get the vid up)...

http://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I993806,CD_I1001438&comparisonTab=h2h

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[Gator 17,357]

As for who we've played ?

You do realise everyone gets to play them ?

There's not a superstar team in the competition.  We've learnt a lot from our early defeats and are a different prospect to the team that ran out early on.  Not to mention the inclusion of McDonald.

We'll lose more games of football, but there's not one team I think we can't beat. 

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Feel free to avoid fan forums if you don't like opinions.

Its about keeping the wins in perspective. We've done nothing yet.

 

 

 

Until we can bag a couple of the stronger teams the doubts persist if we are the real deal or not.  Some with their heads in the sand seem to have forgotten our losses to Hawthorn and Richmond already. Big tests coming up.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

3 hours ago, bingers said:

 

There was a song in Sound of Music  "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" Delete the name "Maria" and substitute "Tyson". He is a real worry.

 

A flibberty-jibbet, a will-o’-the-wisp, a clown. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

The independence of my own thoughts remains mine. 

Amen to that 56.  Footy is a funny game and Pedders might yet prove a whole bunch of us wrong as the year progresses with some sort of amazing lazarus!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Nice, subtle dig there big fella. How passive aggressive of you. 

For the record, I was neither offended nor took it personally about your views on Weideman. Your views and opinion, which you're welcome to, were just wrong. I pointed that out, nothing more. 

 

[D4Life 2,475]

10 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Until we can bag a couple of the stronger teams the doubts persist if we are the real deal or not.  Some with their heads in the sand seem to have forgotten our losses to Hawthorn and Richmond already. Big tests coming up.

After the Richmond loss, if you were given six goal wins against the Bombers and Saints, and a 11 goal win vs the Suns would you be happy with those results?

I think the answer is Yes!

Enjoy the wins, we’ve had more than our fair share of losses in the last ten years.

Lets get another strong win against the Blues next week and then see how we go against some better teams.

 

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

Much unnecessary angst here. No way will Weideman be dropped. 69 pt win. [censored] yes. Carry on.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

12 minutes ago, D4Life said:

After the Richmond loss, if you were given six goal wins against the Bombers and Saints, and a 11 goal win vs the Suns would you be happy with those results?

I think the answer is Yes!

Enjoy the wins, we’ve had more than our fair share of losses in the last ten years.

Lets get another strong win against the Blues next week and then see how we go against some better teams.

 

Of course I’m happy but my ambitions and hopes for this club are higher than beating up strugglers.

Edited May 13, 2018 by america de cali

[DemonOX 8,791]

6 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I think the umpires gave gcs quite a few  soft frees the first half. Watched replay....... Props to Lewis.

A few my god they were useless. 

 

[Skuit 10,031]

21 hours ago, shorty said:

Yep a team player still young and learning, as opposed to Trac who thinks he's played 300 games, could have passed the ball when on the boundary the body language of the players knew he would not pass it, I don't like that, wouldn't hurt him to have a week at Casey.( Needs to pull his head in)

This is just out and out nonsense.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Regarding the Weed, I don't see him being dropped.  My take is that he has progressed at Casey to the point where they can trust him to play a role at AFL level, so putting him into the seniors now is an investment in the future.  Sure, Pedersen is better than him right now, but will he be by this time next year? This time building chemistry with Hogan, McDonald and Gawn is going to pay off down the track and the team is at the point where they can carry him as long as he keeps putting in the defensive acts.  It's easy to point to his low disposal count, but if he's not winning the ball, he's making sure that his opponent doesn't take the mark either and he chases and hassles them once it hits the ground.  That means that while he's not really a winner for us yet, he's not a liability. 

I'd also like to apologise to Lewis.  I was calling for his head a couple of weeks ago, but his last two games have been exactly what we need from him and this week he was working all the time, coaching from the bench, directing and leading on the field and generally provided great value.  This is what we hired him for. 

[In Harmes Way 7,783]

Just had mother’s day lunch with the wife’s family. The brother in law (Tigers supporter) was sweating the Kangaroos making a game of it - the fall off was very Melbourne. I wasn’t sympathetic.

[bringbackthebiff 654]

I keep hearing these “stronger teams”. Not sure they exist. Seems like a very even comp, proven by the last 2 premierships.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Some of the negativity and player bashing on here astounds me. We are in the middle of a long climb. You only have to spend 10mins reading some of the threads on BomberBlitz to realize we are a world away from the world of pain we inhabited only a few years ago. They have a sack the coach thread and even a sack Neeld thread......players trying to reassure the fans and telling them the team is hurting too. Sound familiar?? Enjoy the ride i say. Be thankful we had some dedicated people pull this club back together.

I must also say their website is utter garbage compared to the luxurious Demonland website we are so fortunate to have. 

https://discourse.bomberblitz.com/

[DeleteUser 638]

8 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Some of the negativity and player bashing on here astounds me. We are in the middle of a long climb. You only have to spend 10mins reading some of the threads on BomberBlitz to realize we are a world away from the world of pain we inhabited only a few years ago. They have a sack the coach thread and even a sack Neeld thread......players trying to reassure the fans and telling them the team is hurting too. Sound familiar?? Enjoy the ride i say. Be thankful we had some dedicated people pull this club back together.

I must also say their website is utter garbage compared to the luxurious Demonland website we are so fortunate to have. 

https://discourse.bomberblitz.com/

"Throw the 16 cups away because they mean nothing " - deary me, all that success has not made them resilient. We might want to sack the coach after 1 bad game but it's clearly a well planned tactical ploy to get some media, get the FD reading demonland to get some fantastic ideas for changes to team and strategy.

And.... "discourse. " - really ? And we get rubbished for land rovers and snow?

"righto chaps a substantially poor show this week not the jolly good rodgering we like to stick to those blue boys, they were mighty resistant, what? Let us parlay upon this with a bit of discourse and plan next week's rousing recovery, what."

Edited May 13, 2018 by timbo

[Willmoy1947 4,089]

4 hours ago, deanox said:

Sorry, I just saw the short reply and didn't realise there was more to come. 

I am happy to admit that I like Weid as I think he has some good attributes and want him to succeed. I agree that we want to see him lift his statistical output especially in terms of marks around the ground.

But from watching games I see a young bloke working hard.  I see a young bloke who is rarely used as a target.  And I see 3 consecutive wins where our other 3 talls have flourished.

To me the things aren't isolated.  Drop Weid and what happens to our structures? I feel he has been playing a big role in that success, regardless of his statistical performance. 

I haven't seen him do anything wrong. He isn't losing many contests.  Doesnt make mistakes with the few disposals he gets.  He doesn't get in the way of the other key forwards.

I'm genuinely interested in what others are seeing. If it just that you think Pedo offers more, that's fine.  I can accept that, although I'm not sure I agree (as Nasher said Pedo plays best info a no.1 role not as a support). But I dont understand the criticism of the Weids game and haven't seen anyone explain i the criticism other than by highlighting his low disposal count. 

Weideman will only get better, noticed his body contact was more willing yesterday, as was his awareness to teammates which ended up being quite fruit full with his touches. Happy that other readers are getting good vibes as well, Bodes well for the years ahead.