Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

9 minutes ago, P-man said:

It's obviously less than ideal but it's little more than ammunition for opposition fans and media to peddle the "Melbourne is soft" campaign and older generations to make fun of millennials. It would be a story regardless, but it's a bigger story because it fits a convenient narrative. If the Sydney playing group had done the same thing it would be almost a non-issue.

I don't know why the coaches haven't cut our players some slack considering the gruelling finals campaign they have just---                  oh right. Never mind.

The Sydney playing group have runs on the board and just possibly have a better idea of what it takes to succeed.

9 minutes ago, P-man said:

Like everything else - win games and it is soon forgotten about.

Yes. The players have just managed to put that extra bit of pressure on themselves to do so.

[grey wolf 226]

Hey Goody!

I’ve got me big boots and a bag of Mullumbimby Gold... let’s go campin’......

[BAMF 4,351]

35 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Plenty of players get injured during training sessions as well. Let’s cancel them then. 

Yeah, its exactly the same! I dont know what people are talking about. Bricks fall on peoples heads all the time at Goschs paddock. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

4 minutes ago, BAMF said:

Yeah, its exactly the same! I dont know what people are talking about. Bricks fall on peoples heads all the time at Goschs paddock. 

The brick injury is an isolated incident.

Salem obviously didn't follow instruction on how to pack the bag properly with a brick hence his concussion. 

Eveyone else had no issue with their bricks. 

[BAMF 4,351]

4 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

The brick injury is an isolated incident.

Salem obviously didn't follow instruction on how to pack the bag properly with a brick hence his concussion. 

Eveyone else had no issue with their bricks. 

Didn't follow instructions? While sleep deprived? who would have thought? 

To be fair we don't know if there were instructions or not or if the sleep deprivation part occurred at that part of the camp.

The sleep deprivation thing is such a heap of horse [censored]. More and more research has been done over the years and missing sleep is a stupid thing to do. A number of posters last year pointed out how stupid these camps were. A close mate did one about 8 years ago and had staff yelling at him to push through the pain to finish a 25km loaded march. Once he finished he took his boots off and his feat were wrecked. Blisters so bad he could only wear thongs for the next 2 weeks while they healed. He said he got off lightly compared to a few of the others in his team.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Can everyone get over the idea that it was about a boot camp. That's not the germane point.

It might as well have been a scrabble tournament that they pulled out of. For fear of concentrating too hard.

The point is, having finished the season in the lamest possible way, they have been asked to challenge themselves.

And, just like in round 23, and in countless instances before that, they flubbed it.

 

The players were asked to challenge themselves and they flubbed it.

[rufus 1,162]

Those who are defending this move by the players are part of the root cause of the problems with this club. Happy for this club to continue to be considered the softest club in the competition. Plenty of oppo supporters i know are finding this hilarious...and i would probably just laugh too if i didn't know that this incident is indicative of what this club is about...and during next season when push comes to shove these blokes will once again be shoved (and they will be excused for rolling over no doubt).

[Wiseblood 24,637]

5 minutes ago, rufus said:

Those who are defending this move by the players are part of the root cause of the problems with this club. Happy for this club to continue to be considered the softest club in the competition. Plenty of oppo supporters i know are finding this hilarious...and i would probably just laugh too if i didn't know that this incident is indicative of what this club is about...and during next season when push comes to shove these blokes will once again be shoved (and they will be excused for rolling over no doubt).

I'll never understand why people put any credence in this - who gives a stuff what opposition supporters think?  I couldn't care any less if I tried.

11 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Can everyone get over the idea that it was about a boot camp. That's not the germane point.

It might as well have been a scrabble tournament that they pulled out of. For fear of concentrating too hard.

The point is, having finished the season in the lamest possible way, they have been asked to challenge themselves.

And, just like in round 23, and in countless instances before that, they flubbed it.

 

The players were asked to challenge themselves and they flubbed it.

Plenty of ways to challenge yourself.  A needless boot camp isn't one of them.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

You're absolutely right, we don't know exactly  how the camp played out last year. You make some great points above in regards to the sleep deprivation.  

I didn't mean to play down Salems head injury, I assumed if a player is carrying a heavy object during a gruelling exercise safety instructions were provided. 

I find this scenario a bit unsettling to be honest, I'm interested to know if there were players keen on the camp and if perception has changed within the playing group because of this.

Edit: Not sure what happened, I was quoting BAMF.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Demon77

[Satyriconhome 10,874]

I had a chat with Trac about this at training and some context was added to the decision/players reaction etc

I am ex military and a great believer in this sort of exercise to toughen up people mentally

But I am now comfortable with the decision

And for those who think it will impact the footy side, short answer, no it won't 

Also some are bemoaning after never having participated themselves

As for other teams supporters meh tell them to [censored] off like I do, once we beat them on the field it will be forgotten

Edited December 16, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[Demon trucker 1,800]

No other club does this camp, not doing it does not make players soft, if every other club did boot camp and we did not then that would be soft, they could parts of the camp and take out the stupid parts like sleep deprivation. This is totally different to canceling training, they are still training until their break.

[rjay 24,921]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Plenty of players get injured during training sessions as well. Let’s cancel them then. 

'Ethan' the problem was lack of proper medical support for the injured players...

During training sessions we have doctors (on hand or close by), physio's and qualified trainers on hand, not to mention a full compliment of coaches.

Yes you can get injured but you also have a high level of support and care.

...and as 'Sat' always likes to tell us, when a player feels even the smallest niggle they are off and into rehab until it's sorted.

It's just not consistent then to put players in the hands of a bunch of nut job commando's who want you to push your limits, push through the pain...it's just plain dumb.

The camp was poorly organised...the sooner everyone understands this the better.

[Redleg 40,912]

12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

As for other teams supporters meh tell them to [censored] off like I do, once we beat them on the field it will be forgotten

And there you have it. Success on the field covers over everything else. Win your games and make finals and everything will be rosy.

Win a flag and post a big loss in the books and would any Demon supporter care less?

PS. In the meantime the players can just train hard.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Redleg

[BAMF 4,351]

25 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Can everyone get over the idea that it was about a boot camp. That's not the germane point.

It might as well have been a scrabble tournament that they pulled out of. For fear of concentrating too hard.

The point is, having finished the season in the lamest possible way, they have been asked to challenge themselves.

And, just like in round 23, and in countless instances before that, they flubbed it.

 

The players were asked to challenge themselves and they flubbed it.

The boot camp has everything to do with it. If someone asked you to challenge yourself by jumping off a 20 story building, would you do it? Of course not. But now you have 'flubbed' it. Good one. We needed you to challenge yourself by doing something stupid and you 'flubbed' it. This is an extreme example, but the players thought that the camp could expose them to injury. The boot camp has everything to do with it.

 

26 minutes ago, rufus said:

Those who are defending this move by the players are part of the root cause of the problems with this club. Happy for this club to continue to be considered the softest club in the competition. Plenty of oppo supporters i know are finding this hilarious...and i would probably just laugh too if i didn't know that this incident is indicative of what this club is about...and during next season when push comes to shove these blokes will once again be shoved (and they will be excused for rolling over no doubt).

Funny. I have been thinking the same thing about the people over reacting to this. Some of the comments relating to this are hysterical. Some people have written off the season already. Some are saying that the coach is no good. I think a lot of supporters are simply soft losers who are waiting to get beaten so they can complain about it and continue their sorry lives of playing the victim. Some people are upset because supporters from other clubs are giving them a bit of grief. Really? Get a grip. Tell them to get stuffed. I have copped my fair share of [censored] over the years and copped in on the chin. Now that we are on the way back up, I don't take any [censored].

 

21 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I had a chat with Trac about this at training and some context was added to the decision/players reaction etc

I am ex military and a great believer in this sort of exercise to toughen up people mentally

But I am now comfortable with the decision

And for those who think it will impact the footy side, short answer, no it won't 

Also some are bemoaning after never having participated themselves

As for other teams supporters meh tell them to [censored] off like I do, once we beat them on the field it will be forgotten

I assume I am included in this? Why would I put myself through this when a close friend has told me how bad it was? Others on this site have told me the same thing. Pretty sure it was you and STMJ who were the only ones who said they got anything out of it.

I'm still entitled to have my opinion. Its like me telling you that your opinion isn't valid on here because you haven't played footy at AFL level.

Love your last sentence.

[Diamond_Jim 12,583]

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

'

 

The camp was poorly organised...the sooner everyone understands this the better.

if that was the case it is yet another fail on the part of the football department.

MFC once again demonstrate that it has such a long way to go before it breaks out of the lesser rung of clubs. Putting GCS and GWS aside we probably rank in relevance above Brisbane and North. On a par with the Saints perhaps.

Like many supporters I am getting a little tired of the underperformance of the MFC on so many fronts.

In a week where the Bombers trumpet that they are going after 70,000 members we have this news story.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

Sleep deprived during a two day course? FM how precious are they? 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

I think a lot of people are missing the main point here. 

I am actually quite happy the camp isn’t happening, i said my bit last year. Sleep deprivation is a crock of sh... and can be very dangerous

BUT

the main point here is Goodwin and The FD wanted the camp to go ahead, the Head Coach, after our pathetic performance in Round 23 (which it was) obviously is trying to mentally challenge the list. 

And his authority here has been over ruled

This is not good in December...

small rumbles can get larger. 

I fully expect a very tough January and Feb now, otherwise Goody could well become redundant mighty fast.....

[chook fowler 19,458]

I have a reasonable knowledge of sleep science and can state with surety there is nothing to be gained physiologically or psychologically from sleep deprivation. It can disturb the normal rhythm of sleep which can take a long time to correct. Having said that I would be surprised if this was the main focus of the exercise but I am glad the players expressed their concerns and were listened to.

[P-man 13,366]

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Can everyone get over the idea that it was about a boot camp. That's not the germane point.

It might as well have been a scrabble tournament that they pulled out of. For fear of concentrating too hard.

The point is, having finished the season in the lamest possible way, they have been asked to challenge themselves.

And, just like in round 23, and in countless instances before that, they flubbed it.

 

The players were asked to challenge themselves and they flubbed it.

You're going off your head without knowing all the circumstances.  Save the hysterics for if we miss finals. 

I get it. The manner we bowed out last season was another disappointment in a long line of disappointments. But there is a danger of letting the club's history cloud judgement of the present. The Petracca/Oliver generation don't own the last decade of failure. 

[Little Goffy 14,542]

What I'm disappointed about is that the players also rejected the grueling 72 hour cello playing camp, knocked back a week of manual rice planting, and even refused to be pushed out of their comfort zone by not wearing sunscreen. SOFT!

Seriously, why are police even delivering programs with sleep deprivation as a component? There is never, ever a reason to inflict sleep deprivation on someone unless you actually need to test how they respond to sleep deprivation.

Sleep cycles are not something that just switch on and off and that kind of silly machismo stuff can leave players disrupted for weeks. We all know already that many AFL players have all kinds of trouble setting stable sleep during the season.

Training under sleep deprivation is as useful as getting them to train with the flu.

I'm with the players on this, the camp is a bad call, I just hope that no relationships have been damaged in the process of replacing it with actual football-related training.

[daisycutter 29,613]

6 hours ago, sue said:

So some of us are appalled that the players won't run through whichever brick wall the coach erects and some think this particular brick wall is stupid or counter-productive.  But who can defend the players only being told  few days in advance?   (which I assume is true since no one has denied it).  To me that raises more questions about the FD than about the players.

it's rather irrelevant now who's fault it is

there is a rift/disconnect which if not healed, bodes ill

let's just hope it is successfully and genuinely patched up........and before the season starts

[Hot as Hell 466]

It seems to me the players would be under no illusion as to what the coach expects of them. 

The players know that ruling out this boot camp is not a way of getting "off the hook" in hardness training. They will be simply challenged and tested in other ways. 

Posters would be well advised to remember the players know the their pre-season torture can present itself in many forms. 

The boot camp proceeding or not, is a non issue. 

 

[Satyriconhome 10,874]

2 hours ago, BAMF said:

The boot camp has everything to do with it. If someone asked you to challenge yourself by jumping off a 20 story building, would you do it? Of course not. But now you have 'flubbed' it. Good one. We needed you to challenge yourself by doing something stupid and you 'flubbed' it. This is an extreme example, but the players thought that the camp could expose them to injury. The boot camp has everything to do with it.

 

Funny. I have been thinking the same thing about the people over reacting to this. Some of the comments relating to this are hysterical. Some people have written off the season already. Some are saying that the coach is no good. I think a lot of supporters are simply soft losers who are waiting to get beaten so they can complain about it and continue their sorry lives of playing the victim. Some people are upset because supporters from other clubs are giving them a bit of grief. Really? Get a grip. Tell them to get stuffed. I have copped my fair share of [censored] over the years and copped in on the chin. Now that we are on the way back up, I don't take any [censored].

 

I assume I am included in this? Why would I put myself through this when a close friend has told me how bad it was? Others on this site have told me the same thing. Pretty sure it was you and STMJ who were the only ones who said they got anything out of it.

I'm still entitled to have my opinion. Its like me telling you that your opinion isn't valid on here because you haven't played footy at AFL level.

Love your last sentence.

My point was,and it wasn't  aimed at you in particular, was that if you haven't experienced 'boot camps' some of the comments are nonesense an example 'nut job commandos' which is derogatory towards a highly skilled group

I have experienced 'boot camps' in both military and civilian environments and found them of great benefit to me personally, so I wondered what the players concerns were

When I had the chance to ask Trac, I did, and now feel comfortable with the decision

This decision will have no impact on Goody's relationship or authority with the players and no impact on the field

On last year, if you hire a professional outfit to run the camp you woukd assume all resources would be available, maybe this assumption was wrong and it was too late to pull out or organize when discovered 

As for other teams supporters, ask them if they do requests, if they do, tell them you have a request that involves sex and travel?

[KingDingAling 3,757]

1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

What I'm disappointed about is that the players also rejected the grueling 72 hour cello playing camp, knocked back a week of manual rice planting, and even refused to be pushed out of their comfort zone by not wearing sunscreen. SOFT!

Seriously, why are police even delivering programs with sleep deprivation as a component? There is never, ever a reason to inflict sleep deprivation on someone unless you actually need to test how they respond to sleep deprivation.

Sleep cycles are not something that just switch on and off and that kind of silly machismo stuff can leave players disrupted for weeks. We all know already that many AFL players have all kinds of trouble setting stable sleep during the season.

Training under sleep deprivation is as useful as getting them to train with the flu.

I'm with the players on this, the camp is a bad call, I just hope that no relationships have been damaged in the process of replacing it with actual football-related training.

I am coming around to agree with that. Well summed up.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

16 hours ago, praha said:

true. but I didn't know that at the time. 

it's even more worrying now that we have players running to the union.

Michael Jordan managed to get Steve Kerr, head of the player's union, to do the team thing and go above and beyond. They clashed, punched on (literally). But the two of them sealed a championship (Literally. Google "Steve Kerr finals winner"). 

This is another major concern I have now. You have some players actively undermining the coaching department. This is the first news story ever of players running to the union about training. It's embarrassing. The club can't actively address this. What can it say? outside of what it's already said? 

You can't ignore this. With any work place if the union needs to get involved you've got a problem. What do players who wanted to do the training say? They'r scabs if they say anything. That creates division. This isn't a construction site. It's a football club. Team cohesion is so important. And now the coaching department's efforts to work on this area have been compromised. The reports were that players were struggling...but they pushed each other. They pushed and pushed. Then 8 months later round 23 happens. A few months later we heard that someone or a few are worried they're being trained too hard.

Why does this club always set the worst records, the worst stories, the worst standards?

We are the new Richmond.

 

This is another example of projecting neo-liberal free market ideologies onto a footy environment. There's nothing wrong with players seeking advice from the AFLPA.