Farewell Jack Watts

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

37 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Goodwin painted himself into the corner here with his, seemingly endless, public comments on Watts that now has Jack answering his exit interview in public.

1st year coach alright.

The good ol' Jacks not at fault argument back in full force once again.

Let's be serious here, I agree I don't like the public [censored] for tat in the media between Jack and the club, who really is responsible?

We know this became public when Jack was in Radelaide and made comments to the media. Which lead to Goodwin comments Grand final day etc. 

So really the media started this saga, not Goodwin. It started when Jack went public. He didn't have to comment to the media. 

If you want to argue Goodwin pushed him out, sure... but he also acknowledged publiciy Watts is welcome to return to the club

So there are now Watt's comments today from his presser that he's being pushed out after 9 years hard work. 

Jack choose to go to Adelaide to meet Port, Jack choose to make public comments in Adelaide. If Jack really wanted to stay at the MFC I am also sure he could do everything in his power to negotiate to stay. But he's out there looking.

We also know both the leadership group and Goodwin weren't happy with Watts, not just Goodwin. It seems to me no matter what is said the pro Watts group will always see it as someone else's fault and not Jacks.

And there lies the heart of the problem, it's not Jack's fault the FD or leadership group aren't happy with him. It's not Jacks fault he's out looking for a new club, it's not Jack's he hasn't met club expectations, it's never Jacks fault.

The kid come across as a bloke who has been given everything his whole life, wouldn't know what actual hard work is. That's just my opinion, the rest of it is pretty close to facts.

Poor ol Jack, wo is him

[MurDoc516 1,505]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This is the thing, he was good not "great" in 2016 and 2017. It was good that he was able to consistently contribute for the majority of games during this period but that should be the baseline. Saying he was "great" overplays his contribution and also speaks to how low the bar has been set.

His role in the team wasn't to be a superstar. I don't see many 2nd or 3rd forwards scoring more than Jack did that year and the ones that do are top players. The bar has been lowered, but that's because we got told to expected the next big thing in football, not a good player.

[DaveyDee 421]

24 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Quite right. 

Under Roos' reign, Mahoney was our spokesperson post season.  Roos let people do their jobs.  Goodwin may be falling for the trap of trying to control everything.

As a supporter it was terrific to hear one person give a consistent mfc message regardless of what was happening behind the scenes.

Goodwin has been RSN, SEN, Ch 7 for a variety of reasons but always included mixed messages about Jack staying/going and a negative narrative.  Yes, he was asked the question about Watts but failed to use a 'straight bat' approach. 

Now we have a [censored] for tat building between player and coach.  Whatever the outcome is, it is not good for our image.

Season is over, time for the coach to step back, get off air and let Mahoney do his job - one he does so well. 

Wait a second.

Here at Demonland - He is damned by some if he does talk damned by some if he doesn't talk. This is more a reflection on Demonland than on Simon.

Head Coaches are very, very important around trade period - they set the agenda. 

[buck_nekkid 5,847]

So I imagine Jacky-boy knows what needs to be done if he wants to play AFL for MFC next year.  Is this a signal that he is prepared to do it (stuck in a rut) or simply a cry to not be kicked out because he ‘loves it’?  I want to hear him say something like:

”I have been here 9 years and I love the place.  I also know that what Melbourne need from me is so much more as they move forward.  I relish the chance to push myself to new levels and be a part of something special.”  

Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

 

[DaveyDee 421]

14 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

The good ol' Jacks not at fault argument back in full force once again.

Let's be serious here, I agree I don't like the public [censored] for tat in the media between Jack and the club, who really is responsible?

We know this became public when Jack was in Radelaide and made comments to the media. Which lead to Goodwin comments Grand final day etc. 

So really the media started this saga, not Goodwin. It started when Jack went public. He didn't have to comment to the media. 

If you want to argue Goodwin pushed him out, sure... but he also acknowledged publiciy Watts is welcome to return to the club

So there are now Watt's comments today from his presser that he's being pushed out after 9 years hard work. 

Jack choose to go to Adelaide to meet Port, Jack choose to make public comments in Adelaide. If Jack really wanted to stay at the MFC I am also sure he could do everything in his power to negotiate to stay. But he's out there looking.

We also know both the leadership group and Goodwin weren't happy with Watts, not just Goodwin. It seems to me no matter what is said the pro Watts group will always see it as someone else's fault and not Jacks.

And there lies the heart of the problem, it's not Jack's fault the FD or leadership group aren't happy with him. It's not Jacks fault he's out looking for a new club, it's not Jack's he hasn't met club expectations, it's never Jacks fault.

The kid come across as a bloke who has been given everything his whole life, wouldn't know what actual hard work is. That's just my opinion, the rest of it is pretty close to facts.

Poor ol Jack, wo is him

Please dont take this the wrong way, but that is a terrible post. Dont think you and many others understand what is happening here. 

 

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 minute ago, DaveyDee said:

Please dont take this the wrong way, but that is a terrible post. Dont think you and many others understand what is happening here. 

 

Serious question: some have said that there is more to this. Do you think that's the case? What is the "more"?

Edited October 3, 2017 by frankie_d
clarity

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Just now, DaveyDee said:

Please dont take this the wrong way, but that is a terrible post. Dont think you and many others understand what is happening here. 

 

 

Am not offended, i have never pretended i am in the know

Jacks upset he got told to find a new club

how far off am i?

[rjay 24,889]

3 hours ago, rjay said:

I would think not.

He has not always made the best decisions, hopefully that is behind him now and he has good council to assist.

 

3 hours ago, McQueen said:

I'm basing it off his career thus far.

You appear to be basing it off one year as senior Coach of the MFC with some perceived poor decisions?

No, I'm basing it off his career to date.

Yes, he's made some mistakes this year but that is expected of a first year coach. We hope he gets better with time...

His CV however is not impeccable, there have been issues in the past that do indicate very poor decision making.

His thinking out loud in this instance is another poor choice as it was in preseason.

He really needs to STFU and in this instance I hope PJ is giving him that advice.

[Demons1858 1,755]

44 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

I keep hearing he got dropped twice this season.... but I can't recall the second time?  can someone please clarify when that was? I only recall him being dropped after his injury.  

Very happy to be corrected though.

He was told that he wouldn't be made available for selection in the JLT pre-season comp until his training standards changed and subsequently missed 1 or 2 of them before returning for round 1 of the AFL season proper. Was probably too busy designing his swim wear

[rolling fog 1,207]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Not sure he's the only one.

I don't really get it either.

 

I used to get it.

Until they changed what 'it' was.

[Demons1858 1,755]

30 minutes ago, MurDoc516 said:

His role in the team wasn't to be a superstar. I don't see many 2nd or 3rd forwards scoring more than Jack did that year and the ones that do are top players. The bar has been lowered, but that's because we got told to expected the next big thing in football, not a good player.

One word 'intensity'

[Ouch! 2,258]

32 minutes ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Who says that the recruitment of Lever squeezes out the Macs and Frost?!  There's a thing called injuries (unless you're Richmond 2017 and never get one!) , and competition for spots.  It's critical to have depth, and TMac has shown he can play either end.  Even in your last scenario, we had Hogan, Watts, Gawn, TMac, OMac and the Weid in our team in Round 1 vs the Aints, and it was one of our better matches.  We had Joel Smith playing the Lever role, and he was doing it well until he got injured.  Adding Lever doesn't  squeeze a tallish player out.

Lever coming to our club does squeeze out a tall player. How can it be any other way?? He is a tall defender.

I know we need depth, but when those players are more valuable on the market than at Casey as depth, then Watts is probably being identified by the club as having the most value to another club on the trade table that either isn't untouchable (Hogan, Gawn, TMac) or 'depth'.

[Ouch! 2,258]

5 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

He was told that he wouldn't be made available for selection in the JLT pre-season comp until his training standards changed and subsequently missed 1 or 2 of them before returning for round 1 of the AFL season proper. Was probably too busy designing his swim wear

I might be nitpicking, but someone not being selected in the first place doesn't amount to being dropped in my books. But at least I know what people are referring to in terms of being dropped twice.

[dees189227 12,373]

I  don't really want jack to go, but if he was to go i reckon Sydney would be perfect for him. It would get him out of the bubble from Melbourne and the scg would suit him.

Would rather see him go there than essendon or collingwood 

[rpfc 28,267]

31 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

The good ol' Jacks not at fault argument back in full force once again.

Let's be serious here, I agree I don't like the public [censored] for tat in the media between Jack and the club, who really is responsible?

We know this became public when Jack was in Radelaide and made comments to the media. Which lead to Goodwin comments Grand final day etc. 

So really the media started this saga, not Goodwin. It started when Jack went public. He didn't have to comment to the media. 

If you want to argue Goodwin pushed him out, sure... but he also acknowledged publiciy Watts is welcome to return to the club

So there are now Watt's comments today from his presser that he's being pushed out after 9 years hard work. 

Jack choose to go to Adelaide to meet Port, Jack choose to make public comments in Adelaide. If Jack really wanted to stay at the MFC I am also sure he could do everything in his power to negotiate to stay. But he's out there looking.

We also know both the leadership group and Goodwin weren't happy with Watts, not just Goodwin. It seems to me no matter what is said the pro Watts group will always see it as someone else's fault and not Jacks.

And there lies the heart of the problem, it's not Jack's fault the FD or leadership group aren't happy with him. It's not Jacks fault he's out looking for a new club, it's not Jack's he hasn't met club expectations, it's never Jacks fault.

The kid come across as a bloke who has been given everything his whole life, wouldn't know what actual hard work is. That's just my opinion, the rest of it is pretty close to facts.

Poor ol Jack, wo is him

What an unfair diatribe. 

Goodwin can say nothing on this and then the questions to Watts have no weight - he doesn't have to answer 'what the coach thinks' because Goodwin doesn't make it public. 

Goodwin can do what he likes as coach, I would implore him to, but my criticism of him isn't absolution for Jack Watts and you trying to equate the two is foolhardy.

Does anyone here really think Goodwin has handled this well? We have a contracted player (forget his onfield pros and cons) who has been brought into a [censored] for tat with the coach on his flaws when he hasn't found a club yet, and/or we haven't found a suitable trade partner. 

With so much water to travel under this bridge, Goodwin needs to stop blatantly planting explosives on the bridge!

And when it comes to what comes out of the mouth of Goodwin - yeah, Jack Watts is not to blame...

[Dr. Gonzo 24,197]

38 minutes ago, MurDoc516 said:

His role in the team wasn't to be a superstar. I don't see many 2nd or 3rd forwards scoring more than Jack did that year and the ones that do are top players. The bar has been lowered, but that's because we got told to expected the next big thing in football, not a good player.

I disagree, it's nothing to do with individual expectations - it's the expectations of every player in the side.

You are the one who said he was great in 2016, not me - if you agree he was not great and his role in the team isn't to be a superstar I don't disagree - but don't then try to argue that he was great in 2016 when he wasn't.

[McQueen 17,864]

57 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

According to Watts; "It’s hard to leave nine years of friendship and a place you have spent nine years of your life."

IMO, Watts is content with his current place of employment. He has a secure 2 years worth of income along with a new Women's range of bathers being rolled out next year. Why would he want to leave? He would be leaving his comfort zone.

Lets be honest.. With everything that Goody has said. The writing is on the wall – But I don't think Watts is prepared to give up his lifestyle. If he stays.. Time will tell whether he pulls out his finger or not and it's all speculation until then. But just like the way he plays, the way he talks, does not instill any confidence.

Agree with this sentiment.

Goodwin's "stuck in a rut" terminology can be viewed many different ways but I reckon yours is pretty similar to his. Goody thinks that Jack has so much more football potential to fulfill but under the current circumstances of his business and private lives, he will not and cannot reach those levels because he's too comfortable. The coaching staff have tried shaking this out of him for a long time now and the penny just has not dropped! The clear concern is that this type of personality is not conducive to team first preparation and ruthless execution of it on order to be successful.

Listening to Watts today, as stunned as he sounded, there was no real connection to why the status quo exists.

The risk Watts and the club faces if he stays is that he'll play out his contract in the VFL but still find comfort in his business and social life in Melbourne town. 

I'd rather open up a spot on the list for somebody else with an unwavering dedication to the commitment needed to reach the ultimate success.

[MurDoc516 1,505]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree, it's nothing to do with individual expectations - it's the expectations of every player in the side.

You are the one who said he was great in 2016, not me - if you agree he was not great and his role in the team isn't to be a superstar I don't disagree - but don't then try to argue that he was great in 2016 when he wasn't.

Jack was scoring as many goals as Hogan and Garlett while being 3rd fiddle. Not many players put up those numbers doing his job, the ones that do are great players. So 2016 Jack Watts had a great season. You can disagree and that's fine, but i don't understand what your expectations on Jack are if 40 goals as a 3rd forward isn't a  great season.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

What an unfair diatribe. 

Goodwin can say nothing on this and then the questions to Watts have no weight - he doesn't have to answer 'what the coach thinks' because Goodwin doesn't make it public. 

Goodwin can do what he likes as coach, I would implore him to, but my criticism of him isn't absolution for Jack Watts and you trying to equate the two is foolhardy.

Does anyone here really think Goodwin has handled this well? We have a contracted player (forget his onfield pros and cons) who has been brought into a [censored] for tat with the coach on his flaws when he hasn't found a club yet, and/or we haven't found a suitable trade partner. 

With so much water to travel under this bridge, Goodwin needs to stop blatantly planting explosives on the bridge!

And when it comes to what comes out of the mouth of Goodwin - yeah, Jack Watts is not to blame...

I understand what you have said but you fail to acknowledge how thec ommantry started.

I agree with you on this specific point you've made but the larger issue on how the public debate started was not goodwin.

Im not defending goodwins commantary

im saying how it's conveniently turned in to someone else fault jacks in this position

[Redleg 40,856]

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Does anyone here really think Goodwin has handled this well? 

Well apparently Jack's manager Paul Connors does. Said he can't fault Melbourne at all. Said club is doing the right thing. Jack now saying he is prepared to now do the hard work required to stay. 

[DeeZee 7,363]

I'm just annoyed at the coach.

He has been saying since the season ended that they don't playout list management decisions in public yet openly talks about Watts being on the outer.

Good on Watts for answering all the backlash in public as well.

Just poor management by the club in my view.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeeZee said:

I'm just annoyed at the coach.

He has been saying since the season ended that they don't playout list management decisions in public yet openly talks about Watts being on the outer.

Good on Watts for answering all the backlash in public as well.

Just poor management by the club in my view.

I was  too... But  am now wondering what is actually playing out here. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

2 hours ago, Ouch! said:

Hopefully Watts manager and Roos and any other people giving Watts advice through this period are telling him the following...

'If you stay, you have to work your ar$e off to prove yourself to the club, the players and the supporters.'

'If you go, you have to work your ar$e off to prove yourself to the club, the players and the supporters.'

This is the whole point. 

Jack it won’t be any easier at a different club, infact it will be harder

Colin Sylvia learnt that one. 

Your career is now on the line, if you want this career to stay alive you have to up the intensity. 

Simon Goodwin i am sure would love to have you as a Premiership Player, but you have to put in the hard work, 7 days a week

Edited October 3, 2017 by Sir Why You Little

[DSP 1,488]

14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Well apparently Jack's manager Paul Connors does. Said he can't fault Melbourne at all. Said club is doing the right thing. Jack now saying he is prepared to now do the hard work required to stay. 

And that is the whole issue.

[buck_nekkid 5,847]

7 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I'm just annoyed at the coach.

He has been saying since the season ended that they don't playout list management decisions in public yet openly talks about Watts being on the outer.

Good on Watts for answering all the backlash in public as well.

Just poor management by the club in my view.

Wasn’t goody just responding to media and Watts in Adelaide comments?  I’m sure Goody is answering a question, not starting a fight in the media.