2017 Post Mortem

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

As an aside from the general horror, what happened to Garlett in the back half of the season? I was confident he was going to have a huge season, but he looked generally depressed in the past weeks. Did he not fully recover from injury? 

[Ditcha 524]

19 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Gee we have come so far...pathetic

The swans won the spoon in 1994 with 4 wins. They were 12th in 1995 and played in a grand Final in 1996.

The Bulldogs were 15th in 12 and 13, 16th in 2014 and won a flag in 2016.

Don't give this bullshite that we are improving. This is not a game of incremental improvement in ladder position. Teams leap up the ladder frequently.

We are a laughing stock of a club where it doesn't hurt when we lose. We are comfortable with mediocrity. There needs to be a major statement from our inconsequential, unsighted president, our CEO and our two Captains about what we will accept as a club.

 

As for those players that don't stand up when it counts. they can [censored] off.

 

In part I agree with you but we need to careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I believe that if this disappointment is used correctly then we can finish in the top 4 next year. In fairness to Nathan Jones he told the team in no uncertain terms what he thought of the pathetic first quarter.  Yes we need a statement from the club.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

3 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

As an aside from the general horror, what happened to Garlett in the back half of the season? I was confident he was going to have a huge season, but he looked generally depressed in the past weeks. Did he not fully recover from injury? 

Injury and family bereavement 

[Lucifers Hero 39,809]

3 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

As an aside from the general horror, what happened to Garlett in the back half of the season? I was confident he was going to have a huge season, but he looked generally depressed in the past weeks. Did he not fully recover from injury? 

 

Just now, Moonshadow said:

Injury and family bereavement 

And he still had a very good season:  kicked 42 goals, was in the AFL top 3 for fwd pressure acts and goal assists.  Laid 74 tackles in his 21 games.

He had a very consistent year as evidenced by his nomination in AFL AA squad of 40.  Very well deserved in my book. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

11 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

 

Oh and then there's Warwick Capper tweet asking people to put out their cheese platters to commiserate the Dees missing finals. FFS

Might just deactivate my account for 6 months.

Hahahaha that's actually very funny.

A cheese platter is still better food than what the AFL force you to buy

[Macca 16,969]

I've always preferred to look at the club from a list analysis point of view ... in other words, what do we need to be a genuine contender?

If the aim is to have a list as strong as say 3 teams from the last 20 years (Brisbane,  Geelong & Hawthorn) then we are absolutely miles off.

We might have won 1 or 2 more games this season but there again we might have lost 1 or 2 more games.  That's where I see it.  Our list just isn't that good right now.  We're obviously better than what we were but we've still got a fair way to go.

What we need ...

• Another 2 key forwards ... Hogan seems to be injury prone and the only other real option at the moment is T-Mac. 
• Another 2 key backs ... if T-Mac does play forward then that leaves us with Oscar & Frost.  Oscar is still developing and Frost couldn't even get a game when it mattered.
• We need an injection of pace & class around the ground ... the current list contains too many in-betweeners who don't offer enough.  Players like Kent,  Kennedy,  JKH,  Harmes,  Hannan,  Bugg,  Garland,  Trengove,  Stretch,  Melksham,  Pedersen,  vandenBerg are all in the same sort of category - do any of them offer enough?  I'm not advocating getting rid of them all but how many do we keep?
• All premiership teams generally have A grade talent spread around the various positions but how many genuine A graders do we actually have right now?  Oliver had an A grade year but that's it.  Making a play for some A grade talent should always be on the agenda.
• We're often made to look slow by even average opposition teams - Saturday was a great example of that.  The Pies looked slick whilst we looked slow.  Our ball movement was treacle pace.  And Collingwood had another forgettable season.  So we need to recruit some quicker players who can play the game.
• Our rucks are also injury prone and we gained no advantage in the ruck this season as opposed to last season - so we need another ruckman or 2.
• And with regards to our best 15 - 16 players, only about half of them performed up to standard.  Some of that was due to injury but that is still a poor strike rate, all things considered.

We've still got a long way to go.  The club has at least got its act together with regards to off-field and the FD is performing up to scratch.

We could regress if we don't address the issues that we currently face.  But the FD department isn't circa 2008-2013.  I'm expecting at least 8 changes to the list.

[DSP 1,488]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Hahahaha that's actually very funny.

A cheese platter is still better food than what the AFL force you to buy

I like my Hot Dogs with extra snouts and hooves. MCG ones are excellent thank you.

 

(the chips are actually pretty good)

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

I've always preferred to look at the club from a list analysis point of view ... in other words, what do we need to be a genuine contender?

If the aim is to have a list as strong as say 3 teams from the last 20 years (Brisbane,  Geelong & Hawthorn) then we are absolutely miles off.

We might have won 1 or 2 more games this season but there again we might have lost 1 or 2 more games.  That's where I see it.  Our list just isn't that good right now.  We're obviously better than what we were but we've still got a fair way to go.

What we need ...

• Another 2 key forwards ... Hogan seems to be injury prone and the only other real option at the moment is T-Mac. 
• Another 2 key backs ... if T-Mac does play forward then that leaves us with Oscar & Frost.  Oscar is still developing and Frost couldn't even get a game when it mattered.
• We need an injection of pace & class around the ground ... the current list contains too many in-betweeners who don't offer enough.  Players like Kent,  Kennedy,  JKH,  Harmes,  Hannan,  Bugg,  Garland,  Trengove,  Stretch,  Melksham,  Pedersen,  vandenBerg are all in the same sort of category - do any of them offer enough?  I'm not advocating getting rid of them all but how many do we keep?
• All premiership teams generally have A grade talent spread around the various positions but how many genuine A graders do we actually have right now?  Oliver had an A grade year but that's it.  Making a play for some A grade talent should always be on the agenda.
• We're often made to look slow by even average opposition teams - Saturday was a great example of that.  The Pies looked slick whilst we looked slow.  Our ball movement was treacle pace.  And Collingwood had another forgettable season.  So we need to recruit some quicker players who can play the game.
• Our rucks are also injury prone and we gained no advantage in the ruck this season as opposed to last season - so we need another ruckman or 2.
• And with regards to our best 15 - 16 players, only about half of them performed up to standard.  Some of that was due to injury but that is still a poor strike rate, all things considered.

We've still got a long way to go.  The club has at least got its act together with regards to off-field and the FD is performing up to scratch.

We could regress if we don't address the issues that we currently face.  But the FD department isn't circa 2008-2013.  I'm expecting at least 8 changes to the list.

so just go get 2 key forwards and two key backs and an A grade midfielder.

not asking much ?

[Macca 16,969]

Just now, Bay Riffin said:

so just go get 2 key forwards and two key backs and an A grade midfielder.

not asking much ?

Well, I never said it was easy.

But if the aim is to have a list that can genuinely contend for an extended period of time, we need to get to work.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

12 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Hahahaha that's actually very funny.

A cheese platter is still better food than what the AFL force you to buy

Be wary, free cheese is only found in a mouse trap.

[ding 5,126]

The club has completely shut up shop. Zip, zilch, nothing on the MFC site.

What i hope is happening........

Management is absolutely tearing the team a new [censored] behind closed doors, before finding a way to apologize (without caveats) to their long suffering fans .

What i suspect is happening.....

Players are being given a cuddle and pat on the bum so as not to hurt their feelings, before management finds a way to put a positive spin on a disastrous finish to the year for their long suffering fans.

OFC i have no evidence that any of this is true, but right now it suits my mood so im running with it.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

12 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

 

Oh and then there's Warwick Capper tweet asking people to put out their cheese platters to commiserate the Dees missing finals. FFS

Soft cheese only no doubt. Nothing hard. Like us

[Redleg 40,925]

13 hours ago, rjay said:

Sorry 'Red' but that's rubbish. Frost would have turned it over with the best of them. See him (and others) for what he is, not of what you dream him to be.

The only mistake we will make is not trading hard and players like Frost, Kent, Tyson, Salem and others with some value should all be on the table.

It's not rubbish at all. The only run we had out of the backline was Hunt who did in fact turn it over mostly. The big defenders took poor options and the ball was turned over closer to the Pies goals than it may have been with a Frost, who usually can run a bit and kick it out of the immediate danger zone, even if it is a turnover. He at least breaks the game open and it gives you options that we didn't get Saturday.  

BTW you are not the god of judging footballers either, so you don't need to call people's opinions rubbish just because you disagree. 

I don't see Frost as a great footballer nor do I dream he will become one, I just believe he would have helped us the last two games.

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

'87 heartbreak all over again, although at least then the team was all fire and guts from the first minute until the last. Similar sense of stage fright in the end, though. And couldn't quite do it for our no.2 - again.

Missing out on the finals by the narrowest % margin in the history of the VFL/AFL: another prickly feather in our 53-year-old cap of misery. So many such feathers in this cap that my head is about to take orbit and explode.

Ah well, will fork out the membership fees for me and the kids next year like a true sucker for punishment. Won't be happy with anything less than 14 wins though.

[DSP 1,488]

No doubt there will be incoming calls to SEN. Whinge Binge segement is on. Anyone game to call in?

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

27 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Injury and family bereavement 

Of course. Here's hoping he has a restorative off-season. I think he's crucial to the club's success next year. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Mel Bourne

[Guest]

I have been calm since Sunday. 

The reason being that I had reconciled myself to not making finals after the Collingwood loss.

I can now look at things clinically.

Was this year a statistical improvement? Sure was.

However, hard numbers and teams on paper do not make a champion team. There are intangibles we need to work on. The biggest intangible we need to work on is the following.

How can a team that beat the ladder leaders at home, the team who replaced them in the eight (at home), two other finalists, plus humiliating last year's premiers can lose to the second last team twice, plus 3 other bottom tier teams? How can the same team also lose to a bottom tier team (with most of their stars out) when there is so much to play for? (This may seem to be contradictory with what I will say next but I am looking at things here from a purely analytical point of view).

The answer, put sadly, is unwarranted hubris. It has infested the club for years (with the possible exception of the Swooper years).

I sometimes cringe at the arrogance of the Melbourne Demons footballing ecosystem. Sports is the great leveler where social background, ethnicity and class amount to nothing. However, we thumb our noses at the Collingwood's, Richmond's and North's of the AFL as plebs. While Richmond has been very ordinary for a long time now (though could break through this year), North and Collingwood have achieved much, much more than we have in the AFL era. 2 premierships each compared to our big fat zero. 

When we come out to play against teams that are temporarily struggling, we never seem to 'get' that the result will also depend on what the opposition bring to the table, as well as what we bring. Many of the Melbourne clubs have deeply ingrained cultures and pride built on neighborhood spirit. When they are down, they will often fight for their pride. When have we ever done that? (North is a good point in case if you look at JB's recent comments).

What is our arrogance based on? Victories from 50 years ago? The fact that we were set up by the social elite of Melbourne (nearly 150 years ago)? I'm not sure if the club still tries to sell that prattle to young players when they get in but if they do, it needs to stop. Goody tried to hammer it into the heads of so many when he constantly reiterated 'We haven't achieved anything yet.' However, that seems to have gone through the ears of so many supporters and players. 

We now need to realize that we are what Hawthorn was nearly 70 years ago. We are the league embarrassment and we need to fight to get respect. Youngsters coming to the club shouldn't be getting told about how they are coming to a club steeped in tradition and success (from 60 years ago). They need to hear that they are vital cogs from lifting Melbourne from the bottom to the top. They need to be made to feel that they are part of something bigger rather than a club that lives in denial that they are 'a great club'.

The longer this 'take us back up to the top where we belong' attitude pervades the club, the more you will see repeats of performances like that on Saturday. 

 

 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

10 minutes ago, DSP said:

No doubt there will be incoming calls to SEN. Whinge Binge segement is on. Anyone game to call in?

Chris from Camberwell?

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

4 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I have been calm since Sunday. 

The reason being that I had reconciled myself to not making finals after the Collingwood loss.

I can now look at things clinically.

Was this year a statistical improvement? Sure was.

However, hard numbers and teams on paper do not make a champion team. There are intangibles we need to work on. The biggest intangible we need to work on is the following.

How can a team that beat the ladder leaders at home, the team who replaced them in the eight (at home), two other finalists, plus humiliating last year's premiers can lose to the second last team twice, plus 3 other bottom tier teams? How can the same team also lose to a bottom tier team (with most of their stars out) when there is so much to play for? (This may seem to be contradictory with what I will say next but I am looking at things here from a purely analytical point of view).

The answer, put sadly, is unwarranted hubris. It has infested the club for years (with the possible exception of the Swooper years).

I sometimes cringe at the arrogance of the Melbourne Demons footballing ecosystem. Sports is the great leveler where social background, ethnicity and class amount to nothing. However, we thumb our noses at the Collingwood's, Richmond's and North's of the AFL as plebs. While Richmond has been very ordinary for a long time now (though could break through this year), North and Collingwood have achieved much, much more than we have in the AFL era. 2 premierships each compared to our big fat zero. 

When we come out to play against teams that are temporarily struggling, we never seem to 'get' that the result will also depend on what the opposition bring to the table, as well as what we bring. Many of the Melbourne clubs have deeply ingrained cultures and pride built on neighborhood spirit. When they are down, they will often fight for their pride. When have we ever done that? (North is a good point in case if you look at JB's recent comments).

What is our arrogance based on? Victories from 50 years ago? The fact that we were set up by the social elite of Melbourne (nearly 150 years ago)? I'm not sure if the club still tries to sell that prattle to young players when they get in but if they do, it needs to stop. Goody tried to hammer it into the heads of so many when he constantly reiterated 'We haven't achieved anything yet.' However, that seems to have gone through the ears of so many supporters and players. 

We now need to realize that we are what Hawthorn was nearly 70 years ago. We are the league embarrassment and we need to fight to get respect. Youngsters coming to the club shouldn't be getting told about how they are coming to a club steeped in tradition and success (from 60 years ago). They need to hear that they are vital cogs from lifting Melbourne from the bottom to the top. They need to be made to feel that they are part of something bigger rather than a club that lives in denial that they are 'a great club'.

The longer this 'take us back up to the top where we belong' attitude pervades the club, the more you will see repeats of performances like that on Saturday. 

 

 

 

Correct. Last week sending out the Finals Rundown email before we even Qualify

the arrogance and stupidity continues....

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

2 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I have been calm since Sunday. 

The reason being that I had reconciled myself to not making finals after the Collingwood loss.

I can now look at things clinically.

Was this year a statistical improvement? Sure was.

However, hard numbers and teams on paper do not make a champion team. There are intangibles we need to work on. The biggest intangible we need to work on is the following.

How can a team that beat the ladder leaders at home, the team who replaced them in the eight (at home), two other finalists, plus humiliating last year's premiers can lose to the second last team twice, plus 3 other bottom tier teams? How can the same team also lose to a bottom tier team (with most of their stars out) when there is so much to play for? (This may seem to be contradictory with what I will say next but I am looking at things here from a purely analytical point of view).

The answer, put sadly, is unwarranted hubris. It has infested the club for years (with the possible exception of the Swooper years).

I sometimes cringe at the arrogance of the Melbourne Demons footballing ecosystem. Sports is the great leveler where social background, ethnicity and class amount to nothing. However, we thumb our noses at the Collingwood's, Richmond's and North's of the AFL as plebs. While Richmond has been very ordinary for a long time now (though could break through this year), North and Collingwood have achieved much, much more than we have in the AFL era. 2 premierships each compared to our big fat zero. 

When we come out to play against teams that are temporarily struggling, we never seem to 'get' that the result will also depend on what the opposition bring to the table, as well as what we bring. Many of the Melbourne clubs have deeply ingrained cultures and pride built on neighborhood spirit. When they are down, they will often fight for their pride. When have we ever done that? (North is a good point in case if you look at JB's recent comments).

What is our arrogance based on? Victories from 50 years ago? The fact that we were set up by the social elite of Melbourne (nearly 150 years ago)? I'm not sure if the club still tries to sell that prattle to young players when they get in but if they do, it needs to stop. Goody tried to hammer it into the heads of so many when he constantly reiterated 'We haven't achieved anything yet.' However, that seems to have gone through the ears of so many supporters and players. 

We now need to realize that we are what Hawthorn was nearly 70 years ago. We are the league embarrassment and we need to fight to get respect. Youngsters coming to the club shouldn't be getting told about how they are coming to a club steeped in tradition and success (from 60 years ago). They need to hear that they are vital cogs from lifting Melbourne from the bottom to the top. They need to be made to feel that they are part of something bigger rather than a club that lives in denial that they are 'a great club'.

The longer this 'take us back up to the top where we belong' attitude pervades the club, the more you will see repeats of performances like that on Saturday. 

 

 

 

Yep. 

Personally I don't fit the stereotypical image of a Melbourne supporter. I come from a huge Pies family, but as a kid I got interested in the Dees because  "Melbourne" made a lot of sense to support, and even a five-year old I wanted to ruffle some magpie feathers (how I'm cursing my flawed, childlike logic this weekend). The Tigers/Pies/Dogs/Blues/Roos/Bombers/Saints supporters among my mates are almost interchangeable and it's harder and harder to see a specific "type" attached to any specific team. It's a changed game, and a lot of the financial/social advantages some teams had over others have greatly diminished over time. It's a much more level playing field, which is great. 

But does Melbourne still promote their elitist bullshite to younger players? Does anybody here have any access/insight to the general attitude at the club? Is that Range Rover malarkey is still a thing? I would hope that given how egalitarian the league has become, that shite would have been phased out. If not, is it possible the "Toff Factor" at the club is doing untold damage? Does the club need to start metaphorically eating the rich? Keep Sir Basil Caviar out of the f$&king change rooms? Hard to feel like a street fighter when people keep giving you manicures. 

[dees189227 12,394]

23 minutes ago, DSP said:

No doubt there will be incoming calls to SEN. Whinge Binge segement is on. Anyone game to call in?

I usually listen to the hot breakfast but didn't want to.  Eddie would have been laughing and I know mick would have been giving it to us as well as going on about Richmond. 

Went to sen and they were talking to Goddard, it went straight off. 

Tuned into the last 5 minutes of the hot breakfast to hear the guy that works from 9 say what do you call a team that is 1 game clear with percentage and misses finals. He is a essenscum fan. I tuned out.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Keep Sir Basil Caviar out of the f$&king change rooms? Hard to feel like a street fighter when people keep giving you manicures. 

lol

I think you will find that Sir Basil passed on during Billy McMahon's government. His role as self appointed change room fluffer was inherited by his grandson: Conrad St. Hibbins Crudlington Caviar the Third.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Colin B. Flaubert

[DeeZee 7,395]

Reconstruct our key backline talls with Kielty and Lever and we will be harder and more skillful, eliminate those ridiculous McDonald turnovers and we would've won another two games at least.

Joel Smith to get games ahead of people like Vince as well

[Macca 16,969]

.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Macca
Wrong thread

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

It's a 

2 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

lol

I think you will find that Sir Basil passed on during Billy McMahon's government. His role as self appointed change room fluffer was inherited by his son: Conrad St. Hibbins Crudlington Caviar the Third.

It's a real factor though, isn't it. If I was a recruit from.....anywhere else, and looked to the crowd for inspiration and saw Sir Joffrey Toffrey and Lady Implanté cheering me on I'd be tempted to throw the f$&king game.