Changes v Essendon (Round 6)

[defuture15 899]

39 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Take him out, you mean?

Tom cant handle him

[picket fence 17,172]

5 hours ago, Macca said:

The other issue that needs to be addressed is our forward line ... our opponents are flooding back but we're giving them the time to flood back.  We need to be far more direct with our inside 50 forays but that line of thinking needs to be backed up with the right personnel and structure.

HF   Kent   Hogan  Watts

F     Garlett  Petracca Pedersen

The above forward line needs to have an element of rotation & adaptability for roles & match-ups.  Watts & Hogan can spend some time in the midfield (not rucking) whilst Petracca can play as a high-half forward on occasions (if fit) as well as playing out of the goal square.  Watts can play a similar role.

Pedersen can also (at times) play out of the goal square and he could also be used as a decoy ... apart from being the 2nd ruck.  Bugg could play in Kent's position but the AFL is not the VFL.

Meanwhile, we'd have a kid in the ruck trying his absolute best.  It's not ideal but it might just have to do.

I like this Macca.. By the way your avatar I have finally worked out. It is the millisecond flash in the Exorcist when the real demon inside Regan appears as an apparition. Am I correct??

[picket fence 17,172]

54 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Pretty spot on dbj.

Our selections and particularly the chopping and changing without any continuity towards team cohesion, player confidence and allowing new entries to step up to 'AFL Level' fitness and pace over 2 to 3 weeks continuity (at least) has been woeful so far.

Agree with most of the above but now that Kent is out (agree should have been given one more week as should have Bugg) i want to see what JKH truly offers in the next 2 weeks (minimum). My view is if you bring someone in they have to have a fair crack at showing what they might be offering and backing your initial selection. Ie., they have to be in such good form over a few weeks or more at Casey that you have no option but to select and give them a run at it.  JKH didn't do that but has now earned the continuity as he is there, even if his inclusion was on the back of an initial poor selection criteria/judgement.

So, if the FD collectively feels King can at least neautralise a fair percentage of contests and has at least a 3/4 match tank or more i would run with....

Ins: Lewis, Bugg, King, Pedo

Outs: ANB, Melksham, Spencer & Smith

If King is just too far away and too big a risk then:

Ins: Lewis, Bugg, Pedo

Outs: ANB, Spencer & Smith

Frosty to share ruck duties with Pedders, Watts playing a minor 3rd string role when needed (max approx 10% of game time)

I like this as well However I have a smidgen of a feeling that another mid might come in for Viney, ostensibly injured, rested, make what you will! I would think seriously about Kennedy or White and regig! Why cant Hibberd be part of a midfield rotation I liked his game a lot!

Edited April 25, 2017 by picket fence

[Macca 16,972]

Just now, picket fence said:

I like this Macca.. By the way your avatar I have finally worked out. It is the millisecond flash in the Exorcist when the real demon inside Regan appears as an apparition. Am I correct??

Pazuzu ... yep.  A frightening sight back in the day. 

That forward line I posted up is dependent on some other player taking the main rucking duties.  Reading between the lines I'm not sure that we'll play King next week but with Spencer being out for 6 weeks or so, Mitch may get a run sooner rather than later. 

Playing makeshift back-up ruckmen for 2 months just doesn't make a lot of sense - that's why I'd rather see us bite the bullet straight off.  Get a game under his belt and run from there.  I know he's raw but any player has to play their first game at some stage.  And Essendon is a team where the 'fit' might work better than against other teams.

I wouldn't like to see him debut against the Crows or North ... that really would be a baptism of fire. 

Again, it's just a suggestion. 

[Gator 17,379]

We really don't have anyone decent to pinch hit in the ruck for the next couple of months.

Frost is needed down back, Watts is needed up forward, Pedersen is 193cm and will have zero effect, put simply, none of them will go close to breaking even and we weaken our other structures.

We need a ruckman and I'd go with Mitch King.  Obviously, obviously, we would have been looking for him to play the year at Casey and perhaps get a game at the end of the year or not at all, but circumstances change.  He's overcome his ACL, he's back playing against men at Casey, he's 20 now, and he keeps our structure.  It's only for 7 or 8 weeks and I see little downside to giving him a crack.  He's super talented and if he can have a crack for 7 or 8 weeks it's a better outcome.

Otherwise it has to be Frost with Watts providing relief, but that's terrible structurally and means our midfield will start every game on the back foot.  

This is Melon 22's thoughts on King in Casey's win on the weekend:

King - The highlight of the night for me, wasn't as good in the second half but I was super impressed with his return.  Got involved in the play around the ground and is running ability and athleticism for his size was surprisingly good, not afraid to kick as well and looked like old school ruck rover than a lumbering ruckman type.  

His stats were modest, but he had 26 hitouts

Mitch King 2 kicks 5 handballs 7 disposals 2 marks 4 tackles 26 hit outs 59 dream team points.

As I said, it's not ideal, but for me Mitch King provides the best structure and is at least worth a try.  I don't see much of a downside.

Edited April 25, 2017 by ProDee

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

This post drips with irony.  You complain that we are constantly chopping and changing which is bad for the side, and then you suggest 4 changes, two of which aren't down to injuries.  

Not only that, but one of those changes is ANB who has been one of our better players this year.  Madness.  I do like the fact that JKH, who was far worse than ANB, survives to support your 'continuity' argument, which shows how hard you shot yourself in the foot with that line of thinking.

If a player comes in and can't step up then they face the axe.  We are well past the idea of giving away games, and if we want to play finals then players must come in to the side knowing they need to step up or lose their place to the others guys waiting in the wings.  We now have solid depth that means we can afford to do it.  We can't persist with players anymore.

Wow very emotional attack there Wise.

Bugg unlucky to have been dropped in the first place after one match. That's the chopping and changing i'm referring to. Eg., A player being brought in for one week and dropped the very next, and/or coming back the next (Smith). Nothing to do with changes being "bad for the side" as you wrongly quote me.  That was NEVER mentioned anywhere in my post.

So that's 2 legit changes im suggesting (that aren't forced) in a losing (three weeks in a row) side. Hardly "dripping" with irony and far from upsetting to team cohesion or unusual in a losing team i would have thought, provided those coming in are in reasonable form to replace the two (unforced) changes. Lewis for Melk, who had another very ordinary game seems ok to me, and Bugg who was probably our best at Casey, for ANB, Nothing too severe there i would have thought and seems pretty sound. 

ANB has had a five week run at it and has been choppy over that period with a few weeks up and a few down. Way off it against the Blues, a very good game in general against the Cats, Ok against the Dockers (as was Bugg who was dropped) and ordinary at best yesterday. His persistent turnovers killing off some of the possessions and decent work. Cost us a momentum changing goal against the cats with that 180 degree brain fade kick backwards into the goal square and another yesterday just before half time with his 2nd brain fade OOTF kick. His decision making and disposal needs cleaning up with his DE % no where near AFL average, presently sitting at 60.2% (average). In our bottom three yesterday at 52.4%.  AFL average approx 73%. Get as much of the ball as you like, if you ain't are only hitting targets about 50% of time you're having a mare. Jones had a horror second half yesterday also but still bottomed out overall at 62.5%. JKH also pretty far off here last night on 54.5%.

I totally agree, changes for changes sake should be avoided. That's why i'm saying, when you bring a new player into the team don't take him out the following week. Give him at least 2 to 3 weeks to show some sort of return on the selection, backing the player in and your initial decision to select him, unless of course match ups severely over ride that decision.

I'm also not sure why you disagree that if a player can't step up after a 2 to 3 week continual run at AFL level (from Casey) they are looked at in favour of a similar role player at Casey who is in solid form.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Rusty Nails
grammatical correction

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Out: Spencer (inj), Smith (inj), Melksham, JKH

In: Pedersen, Weideman, Bugg, Lewis

[Demonsone 2,041]

All we need is for the Ess scum to have a run on & Daniher to kick 7 as the Mac bros will be as lose as anything or turnover the ball to gift them easy goals!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

24 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I like this as well However I have a smidgen of a feeling that another mid might come in for Viney, ostensibly injured, rested, make what you will! I would think seriously about Kennedy or White and regig! Why cant Hibberd be part of a midfield rotation I liked his game a lot!

Don't mind that.  Maybe 50/50 swapping with Lewis off HB?

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

Milkshake won't be dropped the week he is playing his old side.

[brendan 3,437]

Bombers $1.88 favorites, I don't mind the idea of mitch king coming in, we need to be bold this is goodwins chance to show how good a coach he is and I'm looking forward to the challenge 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

12 minutes ago, ProDee said:

We really don't have anyone decent to pinch hit in the ruck for the next couple of months.

Frost is needed down back, Watts is needed up forward, Pedersen is 193cm and will have zero effect, put simply, none of them will go close to breaking even and we weaken our other structures.

We need a ruckman and I'd go with Mitch King.  Obviously, obviously, we would have been looking for him to play the year at Casey and perhaps get a game at the end of the year or not at all, but circumstances change.  He's overcome his ACL, he's back playing against men at Casey, he's 20 now, and he keeps our structure.  It's only for 7 or 8 weeks and I see little downside to giving him a crack.  He's super talented and if he can have a crack for 7 or 8 weeks it's a better outcome.

Otherwise it has to be Frost with Watts providing relief, but that's terrible structurally and means our midfield will start every game on the back foot.  

This is Melon 22's thoughts on King in Casey's win on the weekend:

King - The highlight of the night for me, wasn't as good in the second half but I was super impressed with his return.  Got involved in the play around the ground and is running ability and athleticism for his size was surprisingly good, not afraid to kick as well and looked like old school ruck rover than a lumbering ruckman type.  

His stats were modest, but he had 26 hitouts

Mitch King 2 kicks 5 handballs 7 disposals 2 marks 4 tackles 26 hit outs 59 dream team points.

As I said, it's not ideal, but for me Mitch King provides the best structure and is at least worth a try.  I don't see much of a downside.

Our genuine ruck cupboard is now completely bare as you say Pro.  I like the idea but can he even compete and keep up at an acceptable level over at least 3 quarters or so?

Happy to trust the FD and Plapp here to make the call. If it's not King then Pedders is the main man......break even, huge loss or otherwise (in the ruck contests). Has to be the best of a bad bunch if King is assessed as being far from ready even for a short stint. And 7 weeks for King would not be a short stint i wouldn't think. What a baptism of fire that would be if he lasted the 7 weeks or so!

[What 18,810]

Mitch King will come in for sure.  His assignment will be to just to do the best he can for the next 6 weeks, with no pressure.

We would get crushed using Pedders, Watts and Frost as our rucks.

[Damo 3,357]

When people were suspicious of Jack Watts commitment, he went into the ruck when Gawn went down. Now most people see how good he can be. Why not put Hogan into the ruck?

Not like it hasn't been done before. Good leap, strong body, handy at the fall of the ball. We can patch up a forward easier than a ruck ATM. Watts back at CHF, swapping with Jessie occasionally. I havent read all the posts so if its being discussed elsewhere, apologies.

[buck_nekkid 5,876]

Hogan needs to start leading, not trying to outbody one defender whilst a chop out defender floats across in front.  Lead towards the footy!  Stop sooking!  Look at how Riewoldt gets back into the contest!  This is a big change for next week.

also, bombing the ball into 50 is stupid, and played directly into Tigers gameplan.  We can win 50 contests, get 30 inside 50s and  10 goals kicked against us unless we fix this.  We are simply not getting bang for our buck.  Thats the other change.

 

 

[Demons11 7,030]

19 hours ago, picket fence said:

ANB AND OR HARMES for Kent and White as well!

Ring the changes Viney will and should be lucky to hold his spot!

ANB played well last night, still makes a few errors but has a massive crack. 

Viney dropped?? Thank god you don't select the team

[picket fence 17,172]

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

ANB played well last night, still makes a few errors but has a massive crack. 

Viney dropped?? Thank god you don't select the team

I wish I did. Perform or your out!! I dont play favourites! 

[Go the Biff 3,434]

We have 4 ruckmen on the books. #1 and #2 have both gone down so we might as well roll the dice with #3. Young King in his brief VFL career has shown that he enjoys a contest. I reckon he'll be trying to make a statement at training this week.

For those who want Pedo in to replace Spencil, 2 points. 1) Pedo is shitehouse in the ruck duels & offers little around the ground. Watts is better. 2) I think we need Pedo to replace Smith for structural purposes (I'm assuming Weed won't be brought straight back in). It's too easy to double team Hogan without another marking target.

Play King - if necessary in short bursts with relief from both Watts and Pedersen so that we always have 2 targets up forward.

Lewis comes in for one of Harmes / ANB / JKH / Tyson. I thought JKH showed glimpses and I'd like to give him a decent run at it. ANB makes errors but he also creates opportunities. Harmes I find underwhelming. Works hard but butchers the pill. He's a quicker Jordie McKenzie. Tyson is out of form. Not just his kicking - he seems slow of mind and is being caught or put under pressure as he holds onto the ball too long (mind you, the same could be said of Viney)

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Bringing a 19 year old beanpole ruckman returning from an ACL straight in after 1 game at Casey is not adventurous. It's just plain stupid. Did we not learn from feeding Watts to the wolves? Make do with Frost/Pedersen/Watts/Keilty for a month and let King get some continuity and confidence. 

Just get Harmes, Tyson and Kennedy-Harris out of the side and make them play 6 weeks of dominant footy at Casey before they are given their last chance. We are carrying far too many VFL footballers in the senior side at the moment. Can't play Lewis and Tyson at Etihad so there's one change. Bugg the other obvious one to come in. The others are just deck chairs on the titanic. 

[Demons11 7,030]

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I wish I did. Perform or your out!! I dont play favourites! 

He is clearly carrying something and still had 23 p's and 6 tackles.  Even at 80% is better than anything we have in the 2's

[Gator 17,379]

16 minutes ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Bringing a 19 year old beanpole ruckman returning from an ACL straight in after 1 game at Casey is not adventurous.

He's 20 and in his third year.

He's on the list for a reason.  And it's situations like this.

 

[DubDee 25,891]

Bring in Kennedy and put him in the ruck!

 But seriously, the dogs played virtually ruckless at times and it worked fine. Chuck whoever in and play to lose the ruck. 

bringing in king who isn't match fit would be insane and we'd be a man down before we start

[heybrus 15]

16 minutes ago, ProDee said:

He's 20 and in his third year.

He's on the list for a reason.  And it's situations like this.

 

2nd year - 2015 draft. 

[Demon_JB 1,385]

Out: Spencer, Smith, JKH

In: Pederson, Bugg, Kennedy

[M_9 2,082]

In: King, Pedo, Lewis

Out: Spencer, Smith, Melksham (turnovers/zero tackles)

Pedo to give King a chop out. Watts permanently forward.