Vandenberg

[jnrmac 20,061]

I generally like the hardness that AVB brings but he has dropped off alarmingly this year. An interupted season doesn't explain the lack of possessions and impact since he came back in rd 11.

On the weekend he had 4 kicks and 8 hb's with 1 tackle! What has happened? He has to be dropped. We are effectively a mid down the way he has been playing.

 

Description	Date	Opponent	Result	K	HB	D	M	G	B	T	HO	GA	I50	FF	FA	AF	SC
Round 17	17th Jul	St Kilda	Loss 74-110	4	8	12	0	1	0	1	1	1	2	0	1	36	61
Round 16	9th Jul	Fremantle	Win 87-55	8	14	22	3	1	2	5	0	1	6	0	4	77	85
Round 15	3rd Jul	Adelaide	Loss 98-120	4	13	17	2	0	0	8	0	0	1	1	2	71	56
Round 13	19th Jun	Sydney	Loss 31-86	6	7	13	1	0	0	3	0	0	3	0	1	44	54
Round 12	13th Jun	Collingwood	Win 104-58	5	13	18	6	0	0	5	0	1	4	0	2	73	54
Round 11	4th Jun	Hawthorn	Loss 64-82	5	5	10	2	1	1	3	0	0	1	0	1	47	45

[Mach5 4,767]

Agree. Alarmingly poor.

I do think his injury has played a part in this, but it is also irrelevant - we have better options available until he recovers some form.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Reminds me of Trengove a couple of seasons ago. 

Edited July 18, 2016 by america de cali

[dazzledavey36 54,923]

Just another slow inside mid that has to play half forward due to already having Jones Viney Tyson Petracca and Brayshaw as more inside mids..

We seriously lack some outside class with speed.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Mach5 said:

Agree. Alarmingly poor.

I do think his injury has played a part in this, but it is also irrelevant - we have better options available until he recovers some form.

Yes - his interrupted pre-season and subsequent ankle injury have hindered his ability to have a consistent impact.  The FD clearly rates him highly and, it could be argued, they brought him back a little too soon.  He was another who was good last weekend but fell away this weekend.  I'd love to see him play more in the middle but, clearly, he hasn't built the tank to do so yet.

Might be one who gets dropped this week.

[jnrmac 20,061]

4 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Reminds me of Trengove a couple of seasons ago. 

At least JT could get he pill.

[Mach5 4,767]

I'd say the same about Brayshaw, and to me the more alarming thing is week-to-week selection.

They may not play exactly the same role, but surely ANB has more runs on the board at this stage than Brayshaw?
Even 

To me, a player who has been out of form is a better option than a player who is short of proper match fitness, physically or mentally.

 

[Demon Jack 6,909]

Unfortunately, he couldn't get anywhere near it on the weekend. I think he's played some good games over the last month but he completely dropped away on the weekend. One tackle isn't good enough for someone playing as a defensive forward/inside midfielder. Definitely likely to be dropped for this week. Wouldn't mind Stretch coming back as he can supply that outside run Vanders lacks.

[stuie 7,374]

Hasn't been right since coming back (IMO) too quickly from the ankle injury.

Season is over for us, send him off for surgery so he can do a full preseason.

 

[chook fowler 19,458]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Reminds me of Trengove a couple of seasons ago. 

 Maybe we should get the Tigers medicos to check him out 

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,243]

Yeah, just doesn't get the ball enough.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Hopefully it is his injury holding him back, he's nothing on the beast he was last year.

[poita 3,902]

Average player playing below average football. I don't hate him as a half forward, but he is definitely not a midfielder. He doesn't get enough football, doesn't use it well enough and is seemingly not capable of playing as a defensive midfielder.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

59 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I generally like the hardness that AVB brings but he has dropped off alarmingly this year. An interupted season doesn't explain the lack of possessions and impact since he came back in rd 11.

On the weekend he had 4 kicks and 8 hb's with 1 tackle! What has happened? He has to be dropped. We are effectively a mid down the way he has been playing.

 

Description	Date	Opponent	Result	K	HB	D	M	G	B	T	HO	GA	I50	FF	FA	AF	SC
Round 17	17th Jul	St Kilda	Loss 74-110	4	8	12	0	1	0	1	1	1	2	0	1	36	61
Round 16	9th Jul	Fremantle	Win 87-55	8	14	22	3	1	2	5	0	1	6	0	4	77	85
Round 15	3rd Jul	Adelaide	Loss 98-120	4	13	17	2	0	0	8	0	0	1	1	2	71	56
Round 13	19th Jun	Sydney	Loss 31-86	6	7	13	1	0	0	3	0	0	3	0	1	44	54
Round 12	13th Jun	Collingwood	Win 104-58	5	13	18	6	0	0	5	0	1	4	0	2	73	54
Round 11	4th Jun	Hawthorn	Loss 64-82	5	5	10	2	1	1	3	0	0	1	0	1	47	45

I generally agree with what you're saying, his output has been down. It also depends on how he is being used.

Like you I am unsure about VDB atm. But the good thing about the rest of 2016 is that we can try blokes like VDB, Grimes, White, M jones, O Mac, Stretch, Harmes etc to see who have the required skills moving forward.

If you're slow and you can't kick I think you might be in trouble moving forward

[Undeeterred 3,123]

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

I'd say the same about Brayshaw, and to me the more alarming thing is week-to-week selection.

They may not play exactly the same role, but surely ANB has more runs on the board at this stage than Brayshaw?
Even 

To me, a player who has been out of form is a better option than a player who is short of proper match fitness, physically or mentally.

 

This is the point that we're all missing with the selection argument. The FD clearly want to use Brayshaw and VDB because they are better long term prospects, despite the short term pain.

[SPC 3,549]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Just another slow inside mid that has to play half forward due to already having Jones Viney Tyson Petracca and Brayshaw as more inside mids..

We seriously lack some outside class with speed.

He actually isn't slow though, he has genuine pace. Obviously not right and in need of a spell..

[Mach5 4,767]

9 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

This is the point that we're all missing with the selection argument. The FD clearly want to use Brayshaw and VDB because they are better long term prospects, despite the short term pain.

I'm not talking using Oscar over Dunn.

ANB deserves his shot too, as a young prospect performing at VFL level.

[dazzledavey36 54,923]

19 minutes ago, SPC said:

He actually isn't slow though, he has genuine pace. Obviously not right and in need of a spell..

I am yet to see this genuine pace.. at all.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

I'd say the same about Brayshaw, and to me the more alarming thing is week-to-week selection.

They may not play exactly the same role, but surely ANB has more runs on the board at this stage than Brayshaw?
Even 

To me, a player who has been out of form is a better option than a player who is short of proper match fitness, physically or mentally.

 

Brayshaw got caught a couple of times but he is a young kid coming back from a fair time out of AFL level. If he continues to get 20+ touches and settles back into the pace he will be ok. Still getting caught unaware in 3/4 weeks time then ask questions of him. He's got class and showed it a few times then got caught a few others.  

As for Vanders if he cant get his hands on it, then he needs to be given the time to properly recover and have a massive pre-season never understand out of form players 'managing' injuries. Viney it makes sense he is in form and vital but Vanders is out of form anyway so why play him? We will need his best next year more than we need his out of form self the next 6 weeks.

[Nasher 33,616]

Did Brayshaw get caught "a couple of times"? I recall once (the HTB before 3qt), and he was totally and utterly filthy about it.

I don't count times in traffic when receiving dud handballs from teammates.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I am not sure why people are complaining about Brayshaw. I thought for a kid coming back from injury, playing what, his 20th match, he was very good. To say he has no awareness is [censored]! 

As for Vanders, he has been near useless this season. Not sure what his deal is but he isn't contributing enough to justify his position in the side. ABN should be getting a game this week in his place. 

[daisycutter 29,614]

27 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Did Brayshaw get caught "a couple of times"? I recall once (the HTB before 3qt), and he was totally and utterly filthy about it.

I don't count times in traffic when receiving dud handballs from teammates.

there was one other early in the game (1st qtr?) where he had time to execute but didn't seem aware of tackler. i thought he'd be pinged for holding but somehow got what looked like a late and lucky 5 metre kick away

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Loved his rookie year, coming from obscurity and playing a significant role for the team, became a fave of mine.

Sadly, VDB is a liability currently and must be dropped in my opinion. Watched him closely at the ground yesterday, he is either injured or extremely unfit. He looked lame at times yesterday.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

45 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I am not sure why people are complaining about Brayshaw. I thought for a kid coming back from injury, playing what, his 20th match, he was very good. To say he has no awareness is [censored]! 

As for Vanders, he has been near useless this season. Not sure what his deal is but he isn't contributing enough to justify his position in the side. ABN should be getting a game this week in his place. 

Yep nail on head I reckon.

[P-man 13,366]

2 hours ago, SPC said:

He actually isn't slow though, he has genuine pace. Obviously not right and in need of a spell..

No he doesn't. Not that I've seen anyway. He's been pretty slow from the get go.

He is a bull at a gate when fully fit and he's strong overhead, but speed and skill is definitely lacking. I think many of us may have jumped the gun on his capabilities. We need better players than him to progress.