Around The Grounds - Round 14

[Boots and all 1,000]

10 hours ago, SaberFang said:

And yeah, I echo the sentiment that questions need to be asked about how far we are moving forward as a club. Barring GWS, we are yet to defeat any team above us on the ladder and we're still yet to defeat any team we didn't already defeat last year.

In Roos' tenure we've never defeated West Coast, Port Adelaide, Fremantle, Hawthorn, Sydney, St Kilda or North Melbourne. It's time for these shitstain records to die, especially when many of these teams are thoroughly mediocre.

If I'm being absolutely honest,  I don't rate the GWS win at all.  IMO it was a complete upset as regularly occurs in the first one or two rounds of the season. If the game was played today we would probably lose.

I'm stoked that we have beaten clubs below us on the ladder...great.  But I do not see us beating any of the sides above us at this stage. We are exactly where we deserve to be,  middle of the table. We just need to improve for next season. 

On the Saints, they just seem to have the right attitude with a good mix of outside run and good stoppage work. The results speak for themselves. I think they will beat us next time as well...which is disappointing but they have shown considerable improvement this season.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Boots and all

[Nasher 33,616]

Amazing how people will use pretty much any result to confirm their existing thoughts. If you're the type to want the sky to be falling, to write off anything good happening to the MFC, or to make bold declarations about average teams passing us, last night's result was a confirmation bias goldmine.

All it said to me is that this year, no team is unbeatable. I actually took confidence from it rather than the opposite. 

[praha 11,240]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Amazing how people will use pretty much any result to confirm their existing thoughts. If you're the type to want the sky to be falling, to write off anything good happening to the MFC, or to make bold declarations about average teams passing us, last night's result was a confirmation bias goldmine.

All it said to me is that this year, no team is unbeatable. I actually took confidence from it rather than the opposite. 

Well yeah. But it's not like Melbourne has been the one to prove that right.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I actually enjoy watching the Aints play - when their smalls decide to get their skates on, they can beat anybody....

[Nasher 33,616]

We beat GWS and got umpired out against North. Oh sorry, I forgot those didn't count.

The Goliath Slaying Saints season has featured a loss to West Coast by 103 points, a loss to Adelaide by 88 points, and all their other wins have been against sides outside the 8. 

Keep finding ways of how this game reflects poorly on the MFC though.

[Boots and all 1,000]

12 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Amazing how people will use pretty much any result to confirm their existing thoughts. If you're the type to want the sky to be falling, to write off anything good happening to the MFC, or to make bold declarations about average teams passing us, last night's result was a confirmation bias goldmine.

All it said to me is that this year, no team is unbeatable. I actually took confidence from it rather than the opposite. 

We are an average side....albeit on the rise and improving. We might slip a spot or two but I doubt we will leapfrog Port. Either way I'm not particularly concerned, just being realistic about where we are at.

I should probably say that it is unlikely we will knock the sides above us off rather than outlandish statements like we won't beat them.

I certainly don't feel as though the sky is falling in...I am bullish about next season, our young guns just need another pre-season together to consolidate playing relationships, game plans and build strength.

We come undone against strong bodied sides or sides with an exceptional transition game with outside run and carry, but I think this will change next season.

[Boots and all 1,000]

39 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I actually enjoy watching the Aints play - when their smalls decide to get their skates on, they can beat anybody....

Me too Jumbo. They are a young, and hopefully up and coming side like the Dees. I know they have a few stalwarts leading the way but some pretty solid young players as well. I would prefer to see the Saints up there in the eight, than those usual clubs. 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

16 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

Me too Jumbo. They are a young, and hopefully up and coming side like the Dees. I know they have a few stalwarts leading the way but some pretty solid young players as well. I would prefer to see the Saints up there in the eight, than those usual clubs. 

Saints were bloody fantastic last night. The absolute joy in the win was there to see and clearly one of the games of the season. And not everything needs to be referenced in relation to us. It's deflating.

[jackofalltrades 6]

The Saints had a great win last night against the premiership favourites, they play Etihad very well. Their style of play suits playing on the quick track under the roof, same goes for the Dogs and North.

But in my opinion teams who play Etihad well or play home games at Etihad don’t win premierships. The last team to win the flag and play home game at Etihad was when Essendon beat us in 2000. The Saints went close in 09 and 10 but couldn’t quite get the job done on the G.

I think and hope that Roos/Goodwin are trying to build a game style that will stand up on the G under finals pressure.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

59 minutes ago, Nasher said:

We beat GWS and got umpired out against North. Oh sorry, I forgot those didn't count.

The Goliath Slaying Saints season has featured a loss to West Coast by 103 points, a loss to Adelaide by 88 points, and all their other wins have been against sides outside the 8. 

Keep finding ways of how this game reflects poorly on the MFC though.

Those two games feel like they were a long time time ago now. Since then we have been drifting in and out of inertia. Our inability to keep up a good fight against better teams is a concern. Like we play furious for only the first ten minutes then give up. The projection for the rest of the season does not look good if we cannot maintain some incentive to see the year out in a positive way. Post bye for the last two seasons we have been bloody awful. As bad as the Neeld days almost.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 minutes ago, jackofalltrades said:

The Saints had a great win last night against the premiership favourites, they play Etihad very well. Their style of play suits playing on the quick track under the roof, same goes for the Dogs and North.

But in my opinion teams who play Etihad well or play home games at Etihad don’t win premierships. The last team to win the flag and play home game at Etihad was when Essendon beat us in 2000. The Saints went close in 09 and 10 but couldn’t quite get the job done on the G.

I think and hope that Roos/Goodwin are trying to build a game style that will stand up on the G under finals pressure.

Jack If we trained on the G and were the only club to train there AND the only club pushing a style that wins on a similar ground shape/size to the G then we might have an advantage here. But we dont and many other clubs would be doing the same. Worth doing but doesn't give us a head start or edge IMO

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,801]

20 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Those two games feel like they were a long time time ago now. Since then we have been drifting in and out of inertia. Our inability to keep up a good fight against better teams is a concern. Like we play furious for only the first ten minutes then give up. The projection for the rest of the season does not look good if we cannot maintain some incentive to see the year out in a positive way. Post bye for the last two seasons we have been bloody awful. As bad as the Neeld days almost.

This year we have been competitive for whole games and fall away late in some due to fatigue not because we give up. 

An incentive to see the year out has to be show improvement.  Right now only % separates 9th and 13th (Port, Demons, Rich, StK, Carlt).  To show improvement the team's goal has to be to finish as high as possible to be seen as finalist contenders in 2017.  As we play 3 of the 4 that is in our control. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Biffen 12,943]

17 minutes ago, jackofalltrades said:

The Saints had a great win last night against the premiership favourites, they play Etihad very well. Their style of play suits playing on the quick track under the roof, same goes for the Dogs and North.

But in my opinion teams who play Etihad well or play home games at Etihad don’t win premierships. The last team to win the flag and play home game at Etihad was when Essendon beat us in 2000. The Saints went close in 09 and 10 but couldn’t quite get the job done on the G.

I think and hope that Roos/Goodwin are trying to build a game style that will stand up on the G under finals pressure.

Yes that must be the secret plan.

At the moment we are about 2000 times more likely to win at the MCG so I see that as a huge sign that we will be good in a finals situation.

Now the only issue we have is actually getting into the finals.

Might be better if we adopted the "Anyone, Anywhere,Anytime" philosophy in order to get to the G and then let the ground do the rest.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,821]

16 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

What do you mean "officially"?

Officially, they are 20% behind us on the ladder. 

Officially, we finished above them on the ladder last year, and the year before.

Ok, "officially" was a probably a poor choice of words.

How about- St Kilda are progressing better than us at the moment. The Saints have a had a tougher draw than us and had very honourable close losses against Hawthorn and North. Win next week against GC and they'll be 7-7, an easy draw to come and finals a slight possibility.

Meanwhile we've had a very easy draw, beating our bunnies in Collingwood and Richmond as well as the rubbish QLD sides, and have a horror draw to come.

The one thing we have over them is beating GWS at home.

St Kilda will finish higher on the ladder than is which I'm disappointed about, because unlike the Dogs I thought we'd always be a bit ahead of them in our race to the finals.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Bring-Back-Powell

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 hour ago, jackofalltrades said:

The Saints had a great win last night against the premiership favourites, they play Etihad very well. Their style of play suits playing on the quick track under the roof, same goes for the Dogs and North.

But in my opinion teams who play Etihad well or play home games at Etihad don’t win premierships. The last team to win the flag and play home game at Etihad was when Essendon beat us in 2000. The Saints went close in 09 and 10 but couldn’t quite get the job done on the G.

I think and hope that Roos/Goodwin are trying to build a game style that will stand up on the G under finals pressure.

Yes and no....

Pace is pace on any ground - don't forget they ran the Pies into the ground at the 'G.

But, I agree - they go an extra yard at Etihad.

[Redleg 40,924]

2 hours ago, Nasher said:

We beat GWS and got umpired out against North. Oh sorry, I forgot those didn't count.

The Goliath Slaying Saints season has featured a loss to West Coast by 103 points, a loss to Adelaide by 88 points, and all their other wins have been against sides outside the 8. 

Keep finding ways of how this game reflects poorly on the MFC though.

We also played our poorest game against the Bombers, clearly taking them lightly, to our loss, of 4 extra points that we should have.

As pessimistic of losing that game as I was for months before it, I would be very optimistic of beating them, if we played them again this year.  

[Willmoy1947 4,088]

Yes i'm thinking St Kilda get 4 points out of last night and a pat on the back and that is about all. Geelong would have been a lot more upset had they lost at  MCG I think.

St Kilda have  Etihad as they're home ground they will need to learn to play outside of it at the business end. This is probably the way to go.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,734]

14 hours ago, praha said:

Saints have snagged some great wins the past two seasons. Meanwhile, we keep beating Collingwood, Richmond and the two QLD sides, struggle against everyone else and can't even beat teams around us on the ladder.

Adelaide, Freo, Eagles, Saints.

We need to take it up to these four. 

Mate we beat Geelong in Geelong last season..... Way to pick and choose your stats.

We also beat Adelaide in Adelaide two seasons ago.

[45HG 1,539]

15 hours ago, praha said:

Saints have snagged some great wins the past two seasons. Meanwhile, we keep beating Collingwood, Richmond and the two QLD sides, struggle against everyone else and can't even beat teams around us on the ladder.

Adelaide, Freo, Eagles, Saints.

We need to take it up to these four. 

Saints this season have beaten Essendon, Melbourne, Carlton, Collingwood, Fremantle and now Geelong. Hardly setting the world on fire and doing pretty much exactly what you accuse us of (save for last night).

Last year they beat Essendon, Melbourne, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Dogs and Melbourne - pretty much again what you accuse us of save for the Dogs.

The year before they beat Fremantle, Essendon, Melbourne and GWS.

Agree with your last sentence but don't think you'd researched your original argument.

[rjay 24,928]

Geelong are down hill skiers...be interesting to watch their progress this year.

They have an A grade midfield when things are going their way, come unstuck when things are not.

[45HG 1,539]

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

They have an A grade midfield when things are going their way, come unstuck when things are not.

Like most teams I suppose.

[Return to Glory 8,441]

53 minutes ago, 45HG said:

Like most teams I suppose.

Probably right 45HG but I think more so with Geelong.  They appear to almost spit the dummy when a lesser team takes it up to them.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Return to Glory

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,507]

7 hours ago, Boots and all said:

If I'm being absolutely honest,  I don't rate the GWS win at all.  IMO it was a complete upset as regularly occurs in the first one or two rounds of the season. If the game was played today we would probably lose.

I'm stoked that we have beaten clubs below us on the ladder...great.  But I do not see us beating any of the sides above us at this stage. We are exactly where we deserve to be,  middle of the table. We just need to improve for next season. 

On the Saints, they just seem to have the right attitude with a good mix of outside run and good stoppage work. The results speak for themselves. I think they will beat us next time as well...which is disappointing but they have shown considerable improvement this season.

So you don't rate StKilda defeating Geelong by that logic.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I watched the game last night and as a non partisan viewer the only thing that I kept thinking was....
'If St Kilda win it will send half of Demonland into an anxiety induced negative spiral'. Have we become that predictable? ;-)

This morning I thought - Saints have an Etihad game plan playing against a team they always perform well against who've shown serious lapses against teams below them. What does it tell me about Melbourne? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Adam The God 30,256]

How's Prestia's kicking? Brilliant.