Eddie and Caro

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

27 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I don't think so, that hadn't even crossed my mind. To the contrary, I would think most people would interpret a bomb next to water as jumping in and making a splash.

I've never heard someone use in the context you are referring to. 

If Eddie meant that wouldn't he have said 'jump in and bomb her' instead of 'stand around the outside and bomb her'?  I'm not trying or wanting to be semantic as the whole issue is what Eddie actually said.  His choice of words point to people throwing things.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[SaberFang 7,141]

I last posted in this thread on page one and I've read through every resulting page without commenting. All I can say is some of the comments here range from disappointing to downright disturbing. It's clear that society has a long way to go with regards to respect for women.

The only positive from all of this was summed up well by Whateley on 360, who noted this merely solidifies the cemented "boys club" in the AFL who can't stand a dissenting voice amongst them. Unprofessional cowards, the whole lot of them.

The only ones who come out unscathed in my eyes are Frawley and Barrett, both of whom personally contacted Wilson to apologise -- unsurprisingly there's been no such direct apology from Brayshaw; just a slimy, rehearsed, lawyer-vetted script.

And McGuire? The guy who was telling confidants on Sunday that he refused to apologise for his comments? What more needs to be said?

[Skuit 9,382]

5 hours ago, Jesse Christ said:

Yeah bad timing,  insensitive and stupid,  but the people trying to push the sexism connection are doing no service to the whole feminism movement. 

The whole point is to be treated equally,  not put on a pedestal or protected because of one's sex,  that defeats the purpose of equality. 

The guy's who push the sexism agenda the strongest are usually the most desperate with the women in hope for brownie points lol

This is not a shot at you Jesse. But being treated equally isn't the whole point of feminism. And that's often where the confusion resides. Feminism is a very broad concept with many competing ideas, but commonly, it's a theoretical model by which to examine the ingrained prejudices of society. Arguing that Caroline Wilson is being treated the way she is because she is a journalist and not because she is a woman misses the point somewhat, as a feminist critique would counter that this is a patriarchal view of what is acceptable in the field of journalism. Ditto looking up the definition of feminism in the dictionary, as language constructs and the very dictionary itself were designed by the dominant patriarchy. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Skuit

[Watts the matter 1,235]

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If Eddie meant that wouldn't he have said 'jump in and bomb her' instead of 'stand around the outside and bomb her'?  I'm not trying or wanting to be semantic as the whole issue is what Eddie actually said.  His choice of words point to people throwing things.

 

I don't think so, if he was clearly trying to articulate something then that would be a way to clarify it, but it's Eddie. A bomb into water needs to come from the outside and fits into this context.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Soidee 1,496]

Just a couple of points.  McGuire needs to work out if he wants to be a club president or does he want to be a middle aged radio clown.  His comments were bullying and I suggest he would of made the same comments when he was in his 20s, so he has learnt nothing.

Triple Ms silence to date is not surprising, it's morning show is a throwback to the 70s with similar toilet style humour from middle aged men trying to be funny.  Too many ex footballers in radio these days who have stuff all to contribute other than change room type jokes that aren't funny.

As for McGuire and Brayshaw...just grow up!!!!

[Pates 9,562]

The whole segment with them talking about it is just so incredibly bizarre. I mean I get that she's not well liked by many head honcho's, but the manner in which they spoke about it was so out of whack with current standards. It was like Eddie was channeling his old mate Sam. 

Funny thing is it could've actually gone a fun easy rout, Eddie could've simply nominated Caro for Big Freeze next year. Instead they went down a path that was pathetic and cringeworthy. Brayshaw and Caro have never liked each other so it's hardly surprising that he chimed in as well, while Frawley getting in on the act was just random. 

Would give me so much pleasure to see Holden withdraw their sponsorship of the Pies, would be a nice slap in the face to Eddie.

[DemonWA 3,660]

Eddie must be made from Teflon.

First the Goodes comments and now this.

Time to go

[nrc73 77]

Sick of Eddie. He doesn't represent the majority of male AFL supporters that respect women and the sooner he disappears the better. As for Caro, a puppet/mouthpiece for AFL propaganda who hides behind "I have a duty to my readers" but has been as incendiary as they come, the sooner she retires the better. Give Caro some credit, at least she doesnt play the victim. AFL was so much better before these so called media personalities filled the newspapers, analysing & disputing each other's rubbish. 

[Je Roos Salem 661]

It's interesting to see that blokey, bantery triple M footy shell cracked into. What's amazing is that the comments nearly slipped by and the world would've continued without hesitation. Because it didn't sound out of character and that sort of talk is the norm. Hearing the various people involved apologise sadly seems ungenuine. When you think about it two presidents of clubs jesting about drowning a female journalist doesn't read well. Unfortunately (for most) the majority of football media (generally just ex-players bantering, male-dominated) doesn't always think with others' in mind as they've created their own bubble of entertainment where Caro will always be a villain and Ray Chamberlain will be a circus midget and Garry can't go 5 seconds without shaving. When stuff like this snowballs I tend to not side with the outraged but I understand the perspective because the conversation sounded like it lacked any respect. I enjoy listening to MMM at times and I don't have the some intolerance for Caro that many do

[What 18,810]

I love the game of footy but the 'personalities' that are born from it are worse than poison.  

[praha 10,575]

6 hours ago, Skuit said:

This is not a shot at you Jesse. But being treated equally isn't the whole point of feminism. And that's often where the confusion resides. Feminism is a very broad concept with many competing ideas, but commonly, it's a theoretical model by which to examine the ingrained prejudices of society. Arguing that Caroline Wilson is being treated the way she is because she is a journalist and not because she is a woman misses the point somewhat, as a feminist critique would counter that this is a patriarchal view of what is acceptable in the field of journalism. Ditto looking up the definition of feminism in the dictionary, as language constructs and the very dictionary itself were designed by the dominant patriarchy. 

Feminism is not a theoretical model, because that would suggest coherence and consistency in the model, even where there are contesting theories. Contemporary feminism has distanced itself from and is hostile towards old-school feminism, because the two are very different, competing fields of social theory. Where feminism used to be about individual empowerment and the woman being treated equally to the man, modern feminism is much more about the collective, with a different interpretation of sisterhood in that it's less about "having someone's back" and more about "social justice", which really means public lynching. It is less a "stand up and be heard" movement and more a "SIT DOWN AND LISTEN" movement, which aims to replace the patriarchy more than merely break it down. 

You also amplify a narrative that in my opinion epitomises the incoherence of feminism, "social justice" and the modern far-left: you're so smothered in your own non-subjective interpretation of morality and society that you can't separate the [censored] from fact. This quote in particular had me rolling on the ground in laughter:

Quote

Arguing that Caroline Wilson is being treated the way she is because she is a journalist and not because she is a woman misses the point somewhat, as a feminist critique would counter that this is a patriarchal view of what is acceptable in the field of journalism.

There is no "view" of journalism. Journalism is the amplification and sharing of information. It is the role of the journalist to inform. The modern-left see journalism as a means to initiate change, but that is not the role of the journalist: the role is to inform true to the facts, and allow the reacher/viewer to make up their own minds based on those facts. The "social justice" journalist that we see so prominently these days is no different than the state-sanctioned journalist in China, because they are amplifying a non-subjective, hardline stance and definition of morality: "This is how things are, but this is how they should be". That is not the role of the journalist.

[olisik 4,060]

8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

not my definition, oli. bullying as in intmidation (see above). hard to defend yourself when someone says he'd pay $50,000 to someone to hold her underwater presumably because he doesn't like what she reported

but i thought you could work that out for yourself

I have heard people say much worse about Turnball and Shorten this election campaign. Heard a woman yesterday say that Shorten should go and jump off a cliff. No one was having a go at her about being sexist. Needs to be a two way street and I see in no way how what Eddie said was sexist.

Edited June 20, 2016 by olisik

[Satyriconhome 10,094]

10 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Grubby journalists are grubby journalists. Sadly, we have a lot of them in Australia. The term 'grubby journalists' doesn't discriminate by gender. Any person with a set of fully functional set of arms and legs can be a journalist in Australia. All they need is a lack of integrity, questionable set of ethics, and a willingness to get their hands dirty (sifting through rubbish bins, etc).

That is a rather harsh generalisation, you need to ask yourself why they seem grubby to you, unfortunately in the now 24 hr information cycle, good news tends to fall through the cracks, to make something stand out to the 30 second attention span demographic, you need to sensationalise

For a minute there thought you were also talking about any large business in Australia or a union

 

 

[daisycutter 28,728]

27 minutes ago, olisik said:

I have heard people say much worse about Turnball and Shorten this election campaign. Heard a woman yesterday say that Shorten should go and jump off a cliff. No one was having a go at her about being sexist. Needs to be a two way street and I see in no way how what Eddie said was sexist.

now you are just deflecting and changing the goalposts. first you try to argue it wasn't bullying and when you fail on that front you bring up sexism in response to me when i never said anything about sexism. fyi i don't think in this case it was (necessarily) about sexism

[sue 8,638]

After 13 pages I'm still amazed that those who defend Eddie and co by referring to similar comments made by a few Demonland posters in the past (or random voters about Shorten & Turnbull) cannot see the world of difference  between Presidents of footy clubs on radio and comments made privately or on an anonymous forum.

Edit to add: And in case it is not clear, I'm not defending either party. Just pointing out that people in Eddie's position have more responsibility to raise themselves from the gutter.

Edited June 20, 2016 by sue

[jnrmac 19,519]

I think there are some here (including those who are being accused of "not getting it") that are frustrated with the hypocrisy surrounding this stuff. Some interesting comments in the article attached from the woman who was the subject of the Dustin Martin chopsticks incident and the Nick Stevens incident. There is no doubt in my mind that the AFL have handled a lot of this stuff poorly. Contrast the outrage about Caro with the Caro's treatment of Dustin Martin , perhaps because he was a Richmond player.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/rita-panahi/eddie-mcguire-caroline-wilson-bullying-spat-is-just-scoring-cheap-points/news-story/0494742093ee8b7ea5069edb7e01c6db#load-story-comments

[Cranky Franky 1,600]

Most posters on this site have totally missed the point.  This was about payback from Eddie after Caro suggested in an article that after 20years he should have a succession plan in place.  Whenever Eddie or Collingwood are criticised instead of addressing the issue Eddie always goes the man (or woman).  Caro is generally a good journo but she has sold out to the AFL by being their mouthpiece at times.  She also goes pretty soft on Richmond.

In any case there seem to be very short memories here on Demonland because there were dreadful things said about her in the past when she has criticised the MFC.   

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

I think there are some here (including those who are being accused of "not getting it") that are frustrated with the hypocrisy surrounding this stuff. Some interesting comments in the article attached from the woman who was the subject of the Dustin Martin chopsticks incident and the Nick Stevens incident. There is no doubt in my mind that the AFL have handled a lot of this stuff poorly. Contrast the outrage about Caro with the Caro's treatment of Dustin Martin , perhaps because he was a Richmond player.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/rita-panahi/eddie-mcguire-caroline-wilson-bullying-spat-is-just-scoring-cheap-points/news-story/0494742093ee8b7ea5069edb7e01c6db#load-story-comments

Comparing a situation involving a woman with a situation involving a man is the definition of "not getting it".

Context seems a foreign word to many in this thread.

Also, Rita Panahi is NOT the woman involved in either of those incidents, she's a shock jock right wing journalist who deliberately misses the point on issues in an attempt to generate engagement. Sounds a bit familiar to this thread really. Figures.

 

[Ungarie boy 233]

It makes me feel dirty, but I totally agree with Robbo (on 360) and may even have a little more respect for him.  The normalisation of violence to women is that disturbing that it can be so easily accepted everyday in conversation and banter 

but Robbo was right on the money - this is also about BULLYING

I know of a 9 year old boy who was sent to the principal office for fighting, but unpacking the story revealed:

• he was sticking up for a classmate being picked on by 12 year old boys.  There was 3 of these boys who initially reacted to something the younger boy did and then mercilessly verbally him.
• another boys very quickly joined in leaving the 9 year old distraught, in tears 
• as they left, the 9 year old retaliated by throwing rocks.
• He was attacked again.
• This was when his classmate intervened. 
• Now that it had become physical teachers noticed an intervened
• all kids were sent to the principals office, and I understand some where suspended for a week.

Bullying is not tolerated in school, as kids are expected to know and behave better.  The are educated, encouraged and disciplined to this effect.

Yet for Adults there seems to be another standard - What has the AFL, Triple M, Club boards or anyone done to show an example of zero tolerance for bullying (another school principle).

Watching the radio clip on AFL 360 for the first time last night left both me and my wife absolute disgusted that this boy pack attitude, like a shark feeding frenzy upon sensing blood, still is accepted in the football community.  We have a daughter who is very keen to play AFL, but we will definitely not be supporting her desire, while this attitude still exists.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Ungarie boy

[Gator 16,921]

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

[stuie 7,374]

That was a lot like a McGuire apology...

 

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

If Glen Barltett said what Eddie did the AFL would have forced him to resign. 

It won't happen but i can't see any way he should have to do the same, he's actions as the president of a club have been quite poor over a long period of time.

[rjay 24,203]

16 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

Nor from the right if it suits their agenda and profit motive particularly where oil is involved.

The west as a whole, left or right have been guilty of sweeping this under the rug and siding with regimes who promote the horrendous acts you talk about.

 

[old dee 23,256]

This is classic AFL " Talk big and do nothing"

Gil if it is so terrible how come no sanction?

The AFL are champions at Slogans and Publicity but sadly lacking when it comes to action.

[Fork 'em 6,631]

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yes they are, which I have never done, feel free to ask the mods.

Now, you do realize continually accusing someone of such things when they didn't do them is classed as slander? You can't hide behind the internet on such things. I would suggest you retract your incorrect statements.

 

Ahhh Stuie.
Such a whiny little sook.
Makes me sad you're a Melbourne supporter.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Fork 'em