Saturday talking point: More attacking footy

[Whispering_Jack 29,275]

Speaking on SEN this week, commentator David King praised Melbourne's more attacking style against Port Adelaide under Simon Goodwin. 

David King applauds Dees but questions Roos

King also questioned Paul Roos' emphasis on defence in his two years at the helm although it's true that Roos always stated that the team needed to work on that aspect in the first instance. 

How do you think this will play out in the transition season and will the more attacking style of game lead to further improvement at Melbourne in 2016?

 

[DEE fence 4,953]

I actually struggle to find much useful in Kings comments beyond his description of attack on the ball and the individual attributes of players. Pagans' Paddock was as much as about keeping it simple for the mouth breathers he had on his team. Everything else he has to say smacks of being a windsock. I do think he understands individual players though. 

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

I've been wondering if the more attacking style will suit the remaing guys from the Bailey era, especially Watts and Grimes, who were brought in because Bailey (and the recruiting at the time) were very free flowing attack orientated.

It just seems those 2 in particular sometimes second guess themselves between attack and defense, but with Roos defensive grounding they might now come close to fulfilling their potential, i certainly hope so because inthink those 2 at their best will be a big reason we can push closer to finals.

[Ted Lasso 18,853]

It's what happened at the Bulldogs, Macca taught them good defensive structures and contested ball, the back bone of being a team that can perform in finals and now they're adding the attacking layer to it and they look fantastic

Roosy taught the players the found ation of good footy so now goodwin is adding the layers,

The thing about the ball movement that excited me the most was that for the first time in maybe 10 years, our players were running forward to dangerous spots, so the ball carrier could turn and kick right away and know either someone was going to be there or Jesse would create a strong contest.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,217]

I'm hoping this year we will start to see the balance between the two. To be honest I'm not sure that Roos has an attacking game plan that would stand up in today's game, having said that even if he did he didn't have the players to carry it out (being 2014/15). He's done an outstanding job in putting the list together. Whe he first arrived the place was a mess with very few leaders and a playing group that were largely without a clue. In Roos first two years as we know he stripped it all back getting back to basics and although it wasn't attractive football to watch he tried to minimise the losses. The transition to Goodwin has come at the right time, whilst we can't get too carried away with the win over Port there were some good signs. For the teams growth to continue we can not afford the gifting of game to anyone regardless of their age or contract status. Goodwin needs to be hard but fair but borderline brutal with the players so as not to allow them (the senior players) to snap back into their collective daydream. We now have the making of a competitive fwd line and are slowly building a team of skilled footballers who don't mind the contest, quick ball movement is the only thing missing from our game and as a result more goals and more wins should follow.

[Deeoldfart 7,999]

Just like building a house Kingy.  It's imperative that you establish strong foundations before you build the main living quarters and then add the second story.  If not, Cyclone Winston will demolish the whole house in one bad afternoon.  Didn't you know we are building for the long term?   Incidentally Kingy, how long have you been around football?

[Sir Why You Little 36,696]

I read that article during the week and couldn't believe that David King missed the point so badly. 

Roosy came in and started at Ground Zero

what a mighty job he has done so far. If Goodwin can take over seemlessly and continue the rise then David King can just disappear for all i care

this 2016 season is so important

we should have won 10 games last year...

[Ethan Tremblay 30,168]

I can believe David King missed the point so badly. I mute the TV whenever he speaks. 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,100]

35 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I can believe David King missed the point so badly. I mute the TV whenever he speaks. 

.... and, thereafter, can find very few good reasons to unmute it

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,217]

38 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I can believe David King missed the point so badly. I mute the TV whenever he speaks. 

Dees are paying $2 tomorrow, have you got another $100 on??

[Ethan Tremblay 30,168]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Dees are paying $2 tomorrow, have you got another $100 on??

I think the risk outweighs the reward with this one. Plus I don't normally bet more than 5 dinero's at a time unless I've had a few drinks. I'm planning on having a booze-free weekend.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Ethan Tremblay

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,217]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think the risk outweighs the reward with this one. Plus I don't normally bet more than 5 dinero's at a time unless I've had a few drinks. I'm planning on having a booze-free weekend.

Fair call, I only bet on AFL and have itchy feet. I might roll them into 2-3 other games to make it interesting.

[Rossmillan 585]

I took the $6.25 against port, and I'll take the $2 against the dogs. Nab cup anything can happen so even money after the first performance, with Vince and jones to get a run seems like fair odds.

agree with the sentiments above strong foundation means we can attack without bleeding goals, and we can revert to clogging up the back as and when required during games.

when you take the first option, and move the ball quickly its advantage team with the ball

 

Edited March 5, 2016 by Rossmillan

[beelzebub 23,204]

Might be a few teams rattled that we're discovering the scoreboard side ofgame.

Good

[In Harmes Way 7,714]

With the amount of advertised outs from the dogs, we should do this easily

[whatwhat say what 22,264]

it's not so much attacking footy as it is transition from defence to attack, and then vice-versa.

[Biffen 12,870]

Scoring more than the opposisition Is guaranteed to win you games. Brill!

[beelzebub 23,204]

12 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

it's not so much attacking footy as it is transition from defence to attack, and then vice-versa.

X 10

[dee-luded 2,959]

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I read that article during the week and couldn't believe that David King missed the point so badly. 

Roosy came in and started at Ground Zero

what a mighty job he has done so far. If Goodwin can take over seemlessly and continue the rise then David King can just disappear for all i care

this 2016 season is so important

we should have won 10 games last year...

yes, & also even if people don't like to acknowledge it, rebuilding coaches shoot themselves & they're club in the foot IF they climb the ladder too soon.  before the culture is fixed,  & the amount of talent on the list is sufficient for the club to grow from,  for the future, otherwise it will be swamped in quick order if it climbs-ripens too soon.

 

... so the game plan must be on the defensive side first up,  to get a culture of hard work-hard running defensively correct,  before releasing the reigns slowly, after the good habits are ingrained.

 

those who don't know/understand how to repair a sick club,  just state the simplistic & the obvious.  hopefully out of innocent ignorance,   rather than some sort of vindictive mischief.

Edited March 5, 2016 by dee-luded

[DeeSpencer 24,815]

I do worry that we don't have a high enough skill level across the park but particularly in the flanks and on the wing. 

Scoring comes from moving the ball quickly, which comes from 2 things:

- Running hard to open space

- Attacking quick disposal

I'm concerned we don't have enough players who can do both. Grimes and Matt Jones might be starting wingmen for us and whilst they will run and spread well I'm not sure they will hit the targets with the ball to capitalise. Then if we are turning it over we are obviously not scoring but also opening up our backline. The same problem exists at half back with guys like Lumumba or Hunt. Then there's Salem who has the disposal skills but can't be relied upon to carry the rebound by himself. Even at half forward, Watts is a quality user but can be taken out of games. Kent, Kennedy and Harmes are 3 who can run and move the ball on quickly, but will they hit the targets?

Finally, a key component to Clarko's Hawks and his disciples, in particular the Dogs and Eagles has been their zone defending. The Weagles Web got the popularity but the Hawks and Dogs did it as well. The guarding of space and multiple intercept defenders allows for more turnovers and then much faster counter attack as the player who gathers the intercept possession always knows where his outlets will be. Defending man on man implies that every defender then has to out run/out smart their forward opponent to get open to receive the ball. The alternative is to drop a man behind play and then have the overlap to rebound the ball, but the issue then is you're facing the same at the other end and therefore haven't achieved any improving in attacking play.

I want to see better skills and spread but I'd also like to see more aggressive zoning in the backline. I hope Goodwin has picked up on this tactic and maybe Jennings the coach from the Dogs can help implement it.

 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

As far as i can see and i am only going off training reports, player interviews and watching 1 nab challenge game our greatest shift towards becoming attacking is in our defence.

We seem to have put an emphasis on very aggressive defence in our attacking half.

Jack Viney said after the Port win it is much better to get a turnover in our attacking half where it is much more likely to result in a shot on goal.

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

Hard to kick goals if the ball never gets down there.

[daisycutter 29,351]

2 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Hard to kick goals if the ball never gets down there.

pffft, a minor technicality

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

Forgot. The major technicality was we never had the ball in the first place.

[mdemon 266]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

As far as i can see and i am only going off training reports, player interviews and watching 1 nab challenge game our greatest shift towards becoming attacking is in our defence.

We seem to have put an emphasis on very aggressive defence in our attacking half.

Jack Viney said after the Port win it is much better to get a turnover in our attacking half where it is much more likely to result in a shot on goal.

Spot on W45 - the F50 pressure after 1/2 time against Port was eye-opening.

To then convert the resultant  turnovers into goals was a joy to behold. 

Having said that, Port may have been caught napping after our rather listless 1st 1/2.

Let's hope we see it week in & week out.