POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Oneday 248]

After leaving the game last night with the family, I was totally shattered, but I had to try and keep myself respectable for my familys sake. Skills aside, the one thing that was so noticable to me was lack of confidence in each other to undertake their role. You know, the 1%ers, creating space even though you may not receive the ball to draw a defender away from the actual contest. The very real problem I now face is how do I keep my 3 kids interested in the MFC, as the eldest is 14, they have never seen the 'good' times, I really feel that time is quickly running out to cement our next generation of supporters and members.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Hard for Roos to get any message down and enacted upon even with 5 mins to go in the last qtr. My question is, should he have been down on the bench running the show in that last 5 mins rather than in the box dealing with it via phone. I remember thinking this same thing when scores were level with 9 mins to go - Roosy should be on the boundary line directing traffic. With little time left, it's clear that giving direct orders to runners and players as they come on and off the bench was the better option.

[dazzledavey36 54,961]

I completely forgot they changed it to one runner during game days..

[chookrat 4,253]

Hard for Roos to get any message down and enacted upon even with 5 mins to go in the last qtr. My question is, should he have been down on the bench running the show in that last 5 mins rather than in the box dealing with it via phone. I remember thinking this same thing when scores were level with 9 mins to go - Roosy should be on the boundary line directing traffic. With little time left, it's clear that giving direct orders to runners and players as they come on and off the bench was the better option.

The coach shouldn't have to watch the clock and send messages to flood the backline. The players should be empowered to do this because it is an automatic decision to flood back in that position. The runners should have been notifying the players how much time was left.

[jazza 1,323]

Hard for Roos to get any message down and enacted upon even with 5 mins to go in the last qtr. My question is, should he have been down on the bench running the show in that last 5 mins rather than in the box dealing with it via phone. I remember thinking this same thing when scores were level with 9 mins to go - Roosy should be on the boundary line directing traffic. With little time left, it's clear that giving direct orders to runners and players as they come on and off the bench was the better option.

You could be right about him getting to the bench for this occasion.

We dont have the on field leaders that know how to direct the last 3 minutes.

Roos himself has said that on the 360 show many times, Ala =hawks are at an advantage because they have onfield coaches and we dont.Its the hardest thing to teach and we have only one runner.

[Melb16 493]

Too many players in this team have serious mental issues with winning and shyte thier panties. They then start playing sideays/backwards footy with virtually no one willing to take the game or their opponents on, take risks/responsibility and go out an win the fricken thing through effort and attacking/daring play a la Geelong.

The irony is that by not taking those so called risks we actually take bigger risks! They're not willing to go to long to one on ones quickly yet they'll slow it down and then try switch it into the centre with oppotistion players everywhere. How does that make sense!!!???

Why are we never questioned about this? I want to know why we don't go to even contests quickly.

[Chris 2,892]

After leaving the game last night with the family, I was totally shattered, but I had to try and keep myself respectable for my familys sake. Skills aside, the one thing that was so noticable to me was lack of confidence in each other to undertake their role. You know, the 1%ers, creating space even though you may not receive the ball to draw a defender away from the actual contest. The very real problem I now face is how do I keep my 3 kids interested in the MFC, as the eldest is 14, they have never seen the 'good' times, I really feel that time is quickly running out to cement our next generation of supporters and members.

I remember watching the Cats at their best and they had incredible confidence in each other. It seemed they didn't bother to give the ball to a free player, just find a one on one and you had confidence you man would win it, and most of the time they did. They also seemed to have an innate ability to know exactly what each other was going to do next. Was brilliant to watch and I haven't seen any other team ever come close to this level of cohesion and trust.

This is what the boys will be aspiring towards, or should be, but unfortunately we are trying to play that game now but don't know what each other is doing and due to this don't have that trust. I do think it is slowly building, but it will be a while before we even have half of what the cats had.

[rjay 24,945]

Probably the only one here but the loss didn't overly bother me.

Normally I would say we had too many passengers but in this case it was a few passengers and a couple of not quite ready's..

We have had a dearth of leadership that has meant we bought some in but they will never replace your home grown leaders like Reiwoldt and Montagna.

Our club is coming from further back than any other in the competition and is the only one I think (with exception of the expansion teams) to not play finals during this football life cycle.

With young leaders like Viney and Brayshaw coming through we are well set moving forward but it will still take time.

I'm a bit more comfortable than most, the future looks bright to me. More development into Brayshaw, Viney, Tommy Mc, Hogan, Toumpas and co...add a couple more good kids for next year, get Salem, Kent, Petracca and Frost back on the park and off we go.

I thought we would have been lucky to pinch the win yesterday.

[Nasher 33,616]

The coach shouldn't have to watch the clock and send messages to flood the backline. The players should be empowered to do this because it is an automatic decision to flood back in that position. The runners should have been notifying the players how much time was left.

It was a total process breakdown, really. From what I've pieced together from the Vince and Roos interviews, both the players and the coaches took the view that the players have responsibility for driving that kind of tactic, but:

- Vince said the players overestimated how long was left

- Roos' choice of words for taking responsibility was "we (coaches) couldn't get it done" - suggests they were trying to get the message through

- Miller (the runner) was stuck on the ground giving out "other messages". After the goal, by the time someone gets his attention to relay the new message, play will have resumed and it will be too late

So the players stuffed up: didn't set up correctly, the coaches stuffed up: left in a position where they couldn't communicate with the players and the runner stuffed up: not left in a position to relay messages at a crucial time. One thing I've learned in my line of business is that most major catastrophes occur when errors "cascade", i.e. one leads to another several times over, and that's definitely the case here. Whoever is in charge (Roos, I guess) needs to make sure systems are in place so this never happens again.

[Willmoy1947 4,098]

Would have loved to have won that one and rubbed in that we took Ditterich as well. That's why am never allowed to go to footy unescorted.

Funny though would never want Reiwoldt in our side. Just not pretty enough.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,227]

Dr you need medication I think and I agree with all you say Its as though they do it on purpose.

Roos reckons that they dont listen sometimes It seems to me that a lot of them are incapable of implementing team plays and the basics

Don't worry mate I've been self-medicating for years

It is so frustrating just watching them continually make the same errors. It is on the verge of insanity. How many times did Dunn take too long from the kick-in after a Saints behind, chip to himself, run to the right hand side and kick to the flank 60 metres out only to see a Saints player mark it or a Melbourne player drop the mark and the Saints pick up the crumb and send it back inside 50?

How many times do we just bomb long into the forward 50? Sometimes we did it when our forwards were leading up the ground for the pass and the only player back was a Saints player. It's like they look up, see the Saints player by himself but in their minds they've already made the decision they are going to bomb long to do it anyway and kick it straight to the opposition.\

When we do bomb it in why do we rarely kick it to the advantage of our forwards? Ok if you're going to bomb it in to a pack fine, but at least kick it to the side our players are standing on to give them the best chance to at least compete for the mark and lock the ball in or create crumbing opportunities.

How many times do we handball to a player within a metre of the player with the ball who is being worn like a glove? How many times do we handball in circles putting ourselves under pressure instead of trying to get a chip kick in to take a mark and steady ourselves?

How many times does a player run past for a handball instead of laying a shepherd to clear the way for his teammate to take a clear possession? How many times does that player then receive the handball only to run straight into an opposition player and quickly hand off again to another player under pressure until they turn it over or get tackled for a ball up?

How many times do our players compete with each other for the mark only to spoil each other or drop it only to see the opposition with a player or two down waiting for the crumbs to clear it away? It happened continually against the Pies and again yesterday against the Saints. A couple of times we had 3 or 4 players going up with only 1 or 2 Saints and the other 2 or 3 Saints players just waiting down for an easy ball. It is utter stupidity.

Gawn is almost 7 feet tall, why can't he mark?

Hogan was on fire, all they had to do was kick it to him one out and he would've kicked 10 yesterday. Even after Delaney went off we couldn't get it down there for about 15 minutes in the last quarter.

I was furious with the last 41 seconds but the entire game to that point had been so bloody frustrating, same as the week before because of the repeated idiotic decision making. Skill errors are bad but I can handle them more than making the wrong bloody decision again and again and again ad infinitum.

[P-man 13,366]

Whoever is in charge (Roos, I guess) needs to make sure systems are in place so this never happens again.

In the cold light of day, this is my main take away. Learn from it so if the same situation arises again, which it will, we aren't left with our pants around our ankles. Turn a negative into a positive.

[Moneider96 1,045]

At least we have better young players:

Melbourne: Brayshaw, Hogan, Mcdonald, Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Petracca, Salem, Frost

St Kilda: Billings, McCartin, Bruce, Dunstan, Newnes, Webster, Ross, Lonie, Longer

Their older players unfortunately are much better.

[1858 285]

It was a total process breakdown, really. From what I've pieced together from the Vince and Roos interviews, both the players and the coaches took the view that the players have responsibility for driving that kind of tactic, but:

- Vince said the players overestimated how long was left

- Roos' choice of words for taking responsibility was "we (coaches) couldn't get it done" - suggests they were trying to get the message through

- Miller (the runner) was stuck on the ground giving out "other messages". After the goal, by the time someone gets his attention to relay the new message, play will have resumed and it will be too late

So the players stuffed up: didn't set up correctly, the coaches stuffed up: left in a position where they couldn't communicate with the players and the runner stuffed up: not left in a position to relay messages at a crucial time. One thing I've learned in my line of business is that most major catastrophes occur when errors "cascade", i.e. one leads to another several times over, and that's definitely the case here. Whoever is in charge (Roos, I guess) needs to make sure systems are in place so this never happens again.

I think this is very well summed up. Those "other messages" are the crux for me though and more of the learning from this instance needs to be off the ground than on, as poor as the players were. The players will learn because they feel it the most but it should never have come down to a coach screaming with 40s to go to virtually an empty phone.

Simple procedures, simple 2 minute warning. Miller running around giving general messages with 2 minutes to go had a dire consequence.

I dare say if a club tried to introduce an electronic time board like the ones used by refs in the premier league the AFL would outlaw it.

[P-man 13,366]

I thought we would have been lucky to pinch the win yesterday.

Overall I think this is true. We accumulated more of the ball and won the inside battle but we weren't the definitively better side. We just couldn't get a clean possession chain in that last quarter. Infuriating to watch but St Kilda's pressure to their credit was as good as we've faced this year. When we did manage to get it up there, Hogan spilled an easy mark and Howe slotted one. If we could've broken free of the press with some quick cleaner ball use and actually got it forward, we had the weapons to take advantage.

The hesitation to release the ball at times was staggering, and those kick ins... I don't think I'll live to see a Melbourne side that gets its kick ins right.

[rjay 24,945]

The hesitation to release the ball at times was staggering, and those kick ins... I don't think I'll live to see a Melbourne side that gets its kick ins right.

LOL...I think you are so right 'P-man', it's part of our DNA now to screw up the kick ins. It's been a unique skill passed on down through the generations.

[hemingway 7,627]

At least we have better young players:

Melbourne: Brayshaw, Hogan, Mcdonald, Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Petracca, Salem, Frost

St Kilda: Billings, McCartin, Bruce, Dunstan, Newnes, Webster, Ross, Lonie, Longer

Their older players unfortunately are much better.

Accurate assessment. Our younger players are the light on the hill. As a team we are still a long way off. The younger players give us hope.

[binman 43,060]

It was a total process breakdown, really. From what I've pieced together from the Vince and Roos interviews, both the players and the coaches took the view that the players have responsibility for driving that kind of tactic, but:

- Vince said the players overestimated how long was left

- Roos' choice of words for taking responsibility was "we (coaches) couldn't get it done" - suggests they were trying to get the message through

- Miller (the runner) was stuck on the ground giving out "other messages". After the goal, by the time someone gets his attention to relay the new message, play will have resumed and it will be too late

So the players stuffed up: didn't set up correctly, the coaches stuffed up: left in a position where they couldn't communicate with the players and the runner stuffed up: not left in a position to relay messages at a crucial time. One thing I've learned in my line of business is that most major catastrophes occur when errors "cascade", i.e. one leads to another several times over, and that's definitely the case here. Whoever is in charge (Roos, I guess) needs to make sure systems are in place so this never happens again.

As i say it beggars belief Miller wouldn't have checked the time left before he ran out onto the ground for what i assume turned out to be the last time. I'm guessing he didn't because otherwise surely he wouldn't have needed a message from Roos. I wonder what his last message from Roos was by the by (it should have been if we score tell them to flood back - and if it wasn't it is also on Roos).

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

I have come to the conclusion we are never going to be a good side.. I'm that far beyond angry im literally at peace with it. It's like a seeing a family member struggle with health until they die, and once you accept it, your at peace with it. I can't take it anymore. The players choose the wrong options time and time again. They go long when they should go short, they go short when they should go long, they play on when they should go back and take their kick, they take their kick when they should play on, they handball when they should kick, they kick when they should handball, they go fast when they should go slow, they go slow when they should go fast... They do everything wrong. There is only a handful of players on this list that isn't mentally F'd up.. It includes Nathan jones. The young players such as Hogan & Brayshaw then the older ones such as Vince & Cross, apart from that their all mental issues that will never be reversed. It will take us 10 years to rid ourselves of it

Cannot disagree with any of this.

So many skill errors made by players who should know better.

What the hell do they learn and practise at training??

Obviously zero memory retention once the siren goes

N Jones continues to not be able to break a tag

A good Captain would work out a counter attack.

[Dee Dee 1,108]

At least we have better young players:

Melbourne: Brayshaw, Hogan, Mcdonald, Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Petracca, Salem, Frost

St Kilda: Billings, McCartin, Bruce, Dunstan, Newnes, Webster, Ross, Lonie, Longer

Their older players unfortunately are much better.

I'd add Kent to that list and maybe JKH.

And of course we also have Stretch and ANB in the mix as well.

As for the Saints older players, they were playing in finals just a few years ago while ours were just dreaming (and still are).

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

Yes it sucked but I am pretty amazed at how much grown adults are having a sook about it. It's not like we are going to miss out on finals now. Our first year KPF kicked 5, could have been 7 or 8 - he is the biggest asset in the comp and he is ours. Toumpas, Watts and Grimes were all good. We already know Brayshaw, Kent and Salem will be good. Next year we get Petracca, Trengove and another high draft pick or import from another club. We have a huge injury list and a very hard draw so far. I still reckon we will win 5 more. Things are so much better than 2 years ago. Chill out everyone.

I like your positivity C & B but this club does continue to find new and unusual ways to torture us.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

N Jones continues to not be able to break a tag

A good Captain would work out a counter attack.

fair crack of the whip, he has had 66 touches in the last 2 weeks. Vince has had 72, these guys are not the problem.

[P-man 13,366]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of the Saints younger players. They have a lot of quality coming through, some of which didn't play yesterday.

Toumpas having a breakout game of sorts is big though. The possibility of a complete bust was looming. That takes away a little bit of the sting of the result.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

fair crack of the whip, he has had 66 touches in the last 2 weeks. Vince has had 72, these guys are not the problem.

when Jones is tagged he does not break it

After 1/4 time he was almost unsighted

It has happened all year

He must work out his counter attack

[Coup Cooper 610]

when Jones is tagged he does not break it

After 1/4 time he was almost unsighted

It has happened all year

He must work out his counter attack

Are your eyes painted on?

Did you not see Jones lace Hogan twice??

You should do your home before having a go at a 3 time bnf winner..

Muppet!!

He also hit up Howe to put us infront.. And collectly a lowly 34 touches!!!!

Also laid 6 tackles and had 12 inside 50s.. Really needs to learn how to counter a tag..

And then maybe he could get 68 possesions and kick 8 every week!!

Edited June 15, 2015 by Coup Cooper