POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Perhaps, but Fitzpatrick was withdrawn/unavailable due to an injury (described as a "niggle").

Frost would have been handy - or Garland. Or Salem down back.

Injuries hurting us more than some are admitting, we just don't have the depth to cover +/- 25% of the players being unavailable. Garry Lyon article was spot on.

Salem and Kent being fit would help us a lot, we wouldn't have to keep rotating the fringe mids (Newton, Michie etc) in and out of the team

[Je Roos Salem 661]

You know you're a Melbourne supporter when instead of celebrating kicking what should be a match-winning goal with 40 seconds left, you are panicking inside as you know only Melbourne could lose the game from there.

But even with this pessimism that is ingrained in every true Melbourne fan, I still could not in my wildest dreams believe what was about to happen.

If you lose a game from a centre bounce with 40 seconds left, it should only happen one way. A hacked mongrel kick out of the centre following a pub brawl at ground level, which is then followed by one of the best contested marks you would ever see amongst a pack of 20 players. Any football team, professional or not, would at least force the opposition to perform such a freakish play to win the game.

What do we do? We let them walk the ball out of the centre clearance. Yes, WALK IT OUT. No defensive sweeper. No ground level pressure. No one diving on the ball. Once Steven kicked it forward I expected to see a wall of white players clogging up space. Astonishingly, it's man on man. Yes, MAN ON MAN. Would an under 9s team let that happen? I doubt it. Then, after another kick towards the goal square, we have no one dive on the ball or force it out. We let the ball bounce towards goal. And then, to top it all off, we leave the goal square unattended and wide open, allowing Montagna to stroll in ON HIS OWN to kick the open goal. Yes, an OPEN GOAL with 20 seconds left!

There are many other things to discuss about this game. Some positive individual performances from younger players and, more negatively, the fact that St Kilda looked the better and more organised side for larger chunks of the game.

But I simply cannot comprehend that last 40 seconds and the way we allowed them to kick that goal. Not just that we gave up the goal - we've seen Melbourne lose in the last minute many times - but the way they kicked the goal, completely open and uncontested right from the centre bounce. Astonishing.

As for whose fault it was, it all depends on whether the players knew there was 40 seconds left. As it was a short quarter, they may have thought there were 2-3 minutes left. If so, then it's clearly a coaching staff error. They should have ensured that the players knew there were only a few minutes left so that if we got a late goal (which we did), we could then flood the backline. In this day and age it would be a monumental coaching staff error not to ensure players knew how long was left in a tight game.

If the players did know there were 40 seconds left, which I find hard to believe, then they are incredibly stupid and it's their fault. Roos cannot expect to get a message across in such a short space of time. The onus is on the leaders need to ensure the team is set up.

Well put. I think there were 10,000 fans in the crowd who could have done a better job as a runner and screamed it out to them

[Pates 9,536]

Ok so having taken a breath I'm summing this game up as a 1 step forward 2 steps backwards game.

1 step forward: Toumpas having probably his best game for his club, good to see. Gus continuing good form (although needed to get himself off the ground when he hurt himself in the last quarter). Jesse, excellent full forwards game (though that miss at the end hurt).

2 steps backwards: where do I start? We make the same mistakes time and time again. We don't learn. We lose to a shite team and we lose at bloody Etihad. Our leaders fail.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Pates

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Absolutely heart breaking stuff. As a club we still make silly errors that no other team, bar Carlton, would make and it's so hard to watch. However...

If we choose to look at the positives there is plenty to find. Jimmy Toumpas' best game for the club. Jesse Hogan kicks 5 goals. Viney blankets Steven. Brayshaw smashing tackles. Dom Tyson's last quarter where he ran his guts out. Our backline standing up under immense pressure in the last quarter. Big Max, apart from dropping a few marks, showing that he CAN be the number 1 ruckman at the club (and some of his tap work is sublime). Bernie once again showing he was an excellent acquisition. Howe's ripping second half. Watts backing up from last week with a terrific performance and some wonderful skills.

Yes, we had players who struggled but with the injuries it's something we just have to swallow. Riley and Michie, along with M. Jones and Bail, aren't the future. Stretch and Neal-Bullen, still a way off AFL pace, will be better for the run at this level.

Tough loss to swallow but we've come along way. We needed better leadership but I feel as though someone like Nathan Jones will learn from today's game. We need to be better in those situations.

Bring on the handbaggers next week.

Can't recall Tyson playing a worst game for the MFC and I don't know which game you were watching, but Howe had a ripping second half?

Agree with the rest though. It's hard to see through the error-riddled insipidness of the rest of the game, but there were definitely some positives today.

[bing181 8,149]

... we looked like a team who was afraid of losing, not like a team who wanted to win.

Spot on.

Fear of failure runs deep amongst this lot, with fairly catastrophic results. It takes real guts to take the game on when a) you're losing and b) the last 10 times to take it on it resulted in a turnover. As Roos (and he's not the only one) commented, the players tend to go into their shells.

Lack of leadership not helping, but even there, hard to blame the leaders, it's not as if Nat Jones has been playing under sterling leaders himself for the last few years.

[Dwight Schrute 16,722]

In terms of the big picture im not too concerned, our young core is looking very promising, we have off field stability and despite some dissapointing losses i think our best has improved significantly, we just need to play at that level far more often

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

One of the worst games of football I've seen in the flesh.

I've seen some almighty maulings over the last 8 years in particular, but it's pretty rare for, in perfect conditions, to see two shocking sides battling away to see who could stuff up the least.

genius post

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Michie came on as sub. Kicks a terrible floater and chokes near the ball. Both at vital times.

Another to throw in the MFC delist scrap heap.

If you took that evidence and applied that outcome in every case, there wouldn't be one player in the AFL.

[Gator 16,891]

This I disagree with - he's the coach he would know, we're simply assuming/conjecturing reasons that it must be the coaching that we're stilll scheizen. Is it an excuse or explanation - he's been consistent with it - are we simply shooting the messenger? blah ...

Of course he knows. I know. You know. But guess what ? We are our thoughts. We're whatever we predominantly think about. The mind is the most powerful tool any human being owns.

Roos constant referencing of the past is the biggest mistake he's making.

I get that you don't get this.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

St Kilda have drafted very well.

Those nuggety, strong, skilled MIDFIELDERS will hold them in good stead.

couldn't agree less.

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Take your positivity and shove it. We were awful. Even if we had won it was nothing to be happy or proud of.

What a horrible post. You can do better than that, jnrmac.

[bing181 8,149]

Roos constant referencing of the past is the biggest mistake he's making.

You referencing something that's not actually occurring is the biggest mistake you're making. But as you say, we are our thoughts.

BTW, no credit for Jack Watts' game today Ben?

[Binmans PA 25,892]

In terms of the big picture im not too concerned, our young core is looking very promising, we have off field stability and despite some dissapointing losses i think our best has improved significantly, we just need to play at that level far more often

That's the thing about this season, mate. Our best is far and away better than we've seen in a long while, but our bad is still as putrid as the Neeld days, IMO.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

What annoys me is when we do get in front by a couple of goals and weve done it against other sides this year , is that we dont seem to know how to put the afterburners on and keep going!! We seem to either start defending, do nothing or go back into our shells!??.....before you know it the opposition have kicked two or three and we are playing catch up again almost immediately after being in front....

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Ugh...

just ugh...

[Davos 734]

Relax relax relax.

This year we've been in positions to win against: GWS, Adelaide, Port, Collingwood, St Kilda.

That has us in positions to win, or have won 8 out of 11 games. There are still 11 games to go in the season. Assuming we are in positions to win 8/11 remaining, puts us up to winning 16 out of 22 games in a season.

Some of us have short memories. When was the last season we've been able to win, let alone get close to 16 out of 22 games?

Last year was purely bridging the gap and trying to repair some mental demons. (pardon the pun)

This year is purely getting us to play so we get into positions to win. (we haven't been there for so long, so we don't know how to)

Next year will be about winning 50/75% of those winnable games.

Just remember, there is so much to take out of this game.

• I've never seen a better game out of Watts
• I've never seen a better game out of Toumpas
• Gawn, while dropped marks, looks like something
• Grimes looked the most confident I've seen him in about 2 years
• Hogan.
• Viney continues to improve
• Brayshaw.
• While not great games for Stretch and ANB, they'll be better for the run.
• Petracca, Trengove, Kent, Salem, JKH still to improve, break into this side.

So now that the emotion of the heartbreak loss has subsided, lets reflect and be grateful. We are in such a better place then we were pre Roos era.

The loss was painful, but our young guys will be better for it in the long run imo.

[rjay 23,852]

Only Melbourne could lose, only Melbourne.

At least we didn't lose to a Hunt kick. It's not only Melbourne.

[leucopogon 1,468]

Hogan is a winner, who wants and expects to be the difference.

He won't shirk what he sees as a responsibility.

Agreed, but the bloke needs to work on his kicking from long range, can't make the distance from 50 most of the time. We need him to be the whole package.

[CBDees 3,162]

Interesting checking the stats for the game. We had 105 more possessions than St. Kilda but still managed to lose by one kick. Also Garlett had only three kicks today resulting in a single goal whereas each other week to date he has managed to kick a couple. Oh, but for the two goals each from Garlett and Pederson (that we have become accustomed to this year), the result should have been different, especially when we had 33% more possessions than the Saints at 5% better accuracy. God I hate trying to analyse statistics!

[hardtack 10,126]

Retards.

I really really really HATE this post! Maybe I'm over sensitive, but I find it abhorrent that people choose to use that word as an insult.

And yes, I was gutted by the loss as well.

[Anders 14]

At least we didn't lose to a Hunt kick. It's not only Melbourne.

Ha. That's what I was just thinking. I think the Tigers shouldve been investigated for match-fixing that game, it was so un-loseable

I'm deflated at this result, frustrated to lose another close one. But it doesn't "always" happen to us. We hung on against Adelaide and essendon last year, - and the Dogs in 2013 (that truly would have been an absolute nightmare loss - worse than the losing courtesy of Carmichael)

First thing is - we didn't play well. So 4 point win - we're up and about, but our situation is pretty much the same. 2-point loss - sky is falling. But its only a minor round game and neither is contending for finals. I hate losing, but this is no Buckanera in '87 so lets put it in some perspective.

Should have flooded. 40 seconds - only enough time to lose it - but you can save it. Tuompas lost Montagna - shame because he had a good game. As I said, I dont want to fall over the line against these flogs. I want to beat them well and i bloody glad we get a second crack at them this year

[leucopogon 1,468]

Also - I don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread already, but something has to be done about our kick ins. They are bloody atrocious. We might spot up the odd player once every so often, but our strategy continues to be Dunn chipping it to himself, running a bit and then kicking it to about 60m out on the boundary. More often than not the ball came straight back in and we were under pressure again.

Surely, after all this time, we can work on doing something else? The Saints, on numerous occasions, kicked out to free players who then ran and set up play further down the field. I'm loathe to be critical but we are SO predictable in this area. I'd rather see Dunn just boot it up the guts with a torpedo than do what he is now as it's clearly not working.

Bring back the huddle!

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Bring back the huddle!

We did the reverse huddle a bit today. Watts called it. Kicked it straight up the middle to Tommy Mac on the run, who dropped it and from memory, the ball ended up coming straight back or it was bounced by the umpire.

I wonder how much/if any of Goodwin's tactics are being implemented by Roos. I suspect we won't start anything too creative until next year or the year after.

[1858 219]

This loss is like an episode of "Seconds From Disaster".

The problem wasn't that with 30 or 40 seconds (after Howe's goal) to go the message didn't make it to the players to get numbers back

The [censored] up came long before that. With 2 minutes to go the runner should have been telling every player so they had an idea. Surely they would have been smart enough to get numbers back on their own accord if they knew how much time was left. For Vince to say we thought there were a few more minutes when the Saints players knew exactly what the situation was beggars belief.

They left the message way too late. The moment the runner went out with a few minutes to go and told them every kind of useless crap other than what they needed to know was the moment we lost this.

[Pates 9,536]

I didn't think I could get more angry with this loss, turns out I can. After hearing that Vince thought there was more time I am now absolutely fuming.

1: there had only been one, count it one, goal scored for the quarter. A player of his experience should able to work out the rough time.

2: the coaches have a timeclock available to them, how are there not updates ever 2-3min after the 10min mark in a close game?

3: you have a runner that should be relaying this info.

4: we had a set shot with 40sec left, as I said earlier he should have been going to every player telling them how long left.

5: there are that many rotations surely someone should have some rough info on it.

This has been one of the biggest, dumbest, most pathetically amature stuff ups we have ever done. Not only off the pace in players but off the field as well, fan-bloody-tastic. Not going to be sleeping any time soon.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Pates