READY FOR THE KILL - THE HAWTHORN GAME

[Gator 17,244]

I'll be there and look forward to seeing Hogan, Brayshaw and Stretch.

There wasn't a lot to drag you through the gate last year, but quality first year players will always inspire hope for the future.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,702]

...and I assume that post was written to elegantly prove my point.

If so, nice.

If not, call me. I can help.

For a price.

We'll talk later.

If you truly believe that Melbourne supporters want to see Watts fail then you're even more of a headcase than he is.

[ManDee 7,124]

Back on topic...

Hale often seems to have a day out against us. But he has only had one ok game back in the reserves (took one mark - was contested, one goal) after being out for 3 weeks with an adductor problem that he has apparently been struggling with since Christmas. So that's two underdone talls they have coming in this week to add to Schoenmakers who surely has rock bottom confidence after being pantsed by Cameron last week. Forward pressure will be important.

With Lewis and Hodge out, we need to shut down Mitchell. I think Cross would be perfect it and if he does the job we will go a long way to winning contested ball and clearances. If we can do that I really believe we are not without a sneaky chance. Good start is a must though.

I'd like to see:

Bail to play a full game as defensive forward on Burgoyne (or whoever is providing the most rebound if Burgoyne plays on ball).

Garland to Gunston.

McDonald to Roughead.

Matt Jones running with Smith.

Salem on Rioli.

Grimes to Bruest.

I'd love to see Gawn in this week, either in place of Spencer (who I do not rate) or in addition to him. 6 contested marks for casey (11 in total), 19 touches, 22 hitouts and a goal (on the back of 3 goals the week before - though reviews were not super complementary). Named in the best. We are pretty short for this game and I think he could stretch their defence without Lake.

Whilst my expectations are low, I'm more optimistic than going into the last two weeks.

I think Spencer will go alright against Hale. Like you I would prefer Gawn though. I seriously think they are still vulnerable.

[hemingway 7,615]

I noted that this morning when I looked at the ladder too. Not sure I gain much confidence from it or not.

no but I like C& Bs take and it does make me feel better, well at least until tomorrow afternoon. the brutal fact of the game is that all good work can be destroyed by one bad result.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

just realised our 4 losses this year were against sides placed 1,4,5 and 6 on the ladder. The crows one was somewhat honourable too. Just trying to make myself feel better :D

Cause or effect, though?

[poita 3,874]

Hale in is a big problem for us - neither McEvoy or Ceglar would have done much damage up forward, but Hale can just stand in the goal square and outmark Dunn / Garland / etc all day long. Almost exactly the same dimensions as Tippett, and we saw what he did to Dunn when one out last week.

[sue 9,006]

can I ask DLanders for their opinion on this - no agenda, just out of interest

Watts 101 games

Excellent 6

Good 20

Average 30

Poor 30

Terrible 15

Agree/Disagree?

Would like to see the same analysis for several other players before I singled out Watts for having too many <average entries.

Still puzzled as to why he wasn't dropped last week if he needed to be dropped rather than have him on the bench as several posters have mentioned.

Rather than assume the selection panel has gone totally mad, I'll assume dropping him this week is for general form plus a match-up issue.

[Little Goffy 13,992]

Question; is Billy Stretch fast enough to play a run-with role on the likes of Bradley Hill or Isaac Smith?

Speed/evasiveness from several Hawks is the big thing I am worried about for this game.

Oh, Neville, Neville, save us, we need you!

[hemingway 7,615]

I dream't that Frawley will play his best ever game of AFL footy? I looked to all my reference books on the interpretation of dreams with no avail. My psychiatrist told me that according to Freud this meant that I was actually in love with James or I still had not overcome my childhood anxieties.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,209]

No it's not.

People will claim it is frustration. "I just want him to live up to his natural talent", and " What a waste" and "If Nev jetta and half the he'd be a champ...Watts is wasting his talent" and "There are hundreds of kids gagging for a chance to do half of what Jack gets to do and he doesn't care" and on and on and on.

But when you dig half a mil below the surface, all they are saying is " I feel bad/angry/whatever and I blame Jack". Everything else is just empty rationalisations. And then when you see posters like ProDee go on and on and on, then it is pretty bloody obvious that there is more than just some unemotional critique of a player. There is an investment in the effort of bagging the bloke. So why do it?

Because it makes them feel better.

And when you bag someone repeatedly to make yourself feel better, that makes you a jerk, to put it mildly. Getting off on putting someone else down. It is common, and kind of unremarkable and very human and fairly gutless and pathetic.

Absolute drivel. I could just as easily argue that those that want Watts and Grimes in the team want the team to fail simply by their inclusion. Watts form today has nothing to do with his debut as does Grimes form to do with being made the captain. They both excelled at junior levels and haven't made the transition, this is when most would argue they haven't been developed properly. This is when I would say they've had two pre seasons under Roos and one under McCartney and lots of other players are taking the step. Watts isn't being bullied or victimised he is simply under scrutiny like 800 other players are. If he doesn't like it don't play the game. Most of us have an emotional/financial investment in this club and have done for years, we're entitled to our opinion. Does this make us pathetic, no I'd say pathetic is reserved for those who go around labelling other posters on this forum.

[sue 9,006]

Absolute drivel. I could just as easily argue that those that want Watts and Grimes in the team want the team to fail simply by their inclusion. Watts form today has nothing to do with his debut as does Grimes form to do with being made the captain. They both excelled at junior levels and haven't made the transition, this is when most would argue they haven't been developed properly. This is when I would say they've had two pre seasons under Roos and one under McCartney and lots of other players are taking the step. Watts isn't being bullied or victimised he is simply under scrutiny like 800 other players are. If he doesn't like it don't play the game. Most of us have an emotional/financial investment in this club and have done for years, we're entitled to our opinion. Does this make us pathetic, no I'd say pathetic is reserved for those who go around labelling other posters on this forum.

I'd have accepted your argument more easily if several players other than Watts were also booed when they came on and got their first kick.

[dpositive 1,649]

I think that Jack Watts is what he is.

I cannot recall any player even a Brownlow Medalist who was best on the ground every week.

Bobby Skilton played in pretty ordinary teams when he won his Brownlow in a competition very different to the current .

The teams Jack Watts has been in have been more than ordinary and he has been subject to a degree of scrutiny that is extreme.

He has managed to retain his mental state and his personality it would appear

His playing skills have to the most extent been maintained with obvious failures which are usually obvious blemishes against a reasonable performance.

His stats show that he has performed at reasonable output for his whole career.

These same stats are not outstanding and probably not sufficient for the hype and obvious talents he has.

However the coaches shoild either improve his performance or improve the team to maximise his talents or trade him out as unsuitable.

I have faith this will happen even though as a Melbourne supporter for 55 years my faith has often been tested and certainly my expectations often cruelly savaged. I have enjoyed the ride and would love some success but it is what it is I deeply and sincerely wish it were better. Every Melbourne player has been exhilarating and disapointing.

I deeply and sincerely wish Jack Watts was a champion. But he is what he is.

He certainly has provided a great deal of off field diversion and thought

[Gator 17,244]

TimD

I do agree that the Watts' discussion has gone too far. You'll note I've only posted 3 or 4 times in this thread and mentioned him once.

The discussion is done and dusted. He is what he is and it won't be changing. I've been consistent in my views for years, but agree that now's the time to leave it alone. Nothing else 'needs' to be said. It's all been said.

Contrary to your views, I get no pleasure from seeing him dropped or ridiculed. I fully understand why some may think I do, but I don't. It really is terribly unfair the scrutiny he cops compared to others.

Sam Day, pick 2, was dropped earlier this year and not a word is said. Gumbleton, pick 2, is out of the game. So are countless others, but all anyone wants to talk about is Watts.

Earlier I went on to News.com.au while checking on my footy tips and low and behold they have a photo of Watts wearing the pink jumper from the breast cancer match. I know it's a recent photo, but I'm convinced there's perverse pleasure in showing him in a Dees jumper that's pink.

So, thanks for the character assassination, but you're wrong. I note that I'm rarely tackled about my views on his footy, more my own personal motivations. But hey, you get applauded (liked) for your comments, so you must be doing something OK.

EDIT: And I've never booed Watts at the football and never will. I won't lie and say I've never bagged him, as I have, but the booing is nonsense.

Edited May 15, 2015 by ProDee

[Samael 560]

Question; is Billy Stretch fast enough to play a run-with role on the likes of Bradley Hill or Isaac Smith?

Speed/evasiveness from several Hawks is the big thing I am worried about for this game.

Oh, Neville, Neville, save us, we need you!

No tank. Surprised he isn't sub. Ran out of puff mid second term last week.

[dpositive 1,649]

Oh and I think we will probably be beaten but Ive picked us in the footy tipping and will be delighted if somehow we do perhaps if all the match ups work our new selection splay above themselves and the Hawks have a shocker..

GODEES

[jumbo returns 6,703]

TimD

I do agree that the Watts' discussion has gone too far. You'll note I've only posted 3 or 4 times in this thread and mentioned him once.

The discussion is done and dusted. He is what he is and it won't be changing. I've been consistent in my views for years, but agree that now's the time to leave it alone. Nothing else 'needs' to be said. It's all been said.

Contrary to your views, I get no pleasure from seeing him dropped or ridiculed. I fully understand why some may think I do, but I don't. It really is terribly unfair the scrutiny he cops compared to others.

Sam Day, pick 2, was dropped earlier this year and not a word is said. Gumbleton, pick 2, is out of the game. So are countless others, but all anyone wants to talk about is Watts.

Earlier I went on to News.com.au while checking on my footy tips and low and behold they have a photo of Watts wearing the pink jumper from the breast cancer match. I know it's a recent photo, but I'm convinced there's perverse pleasure in showing him in a Dees jumper that's pink.

So, thanks for the character assassination, but you're wrong. I note that I'm rarely tackled about my views on his footy, more my own personal motivations. But hey, you get applauded (liked) for your comments, so you must be doing something OK.

EDIT: And I've never booed Watts at the football and never will. I won't lie and say I've never bagged him, as I have, but the booing is nonsense.

Feel better?

[jumbo returns 6,703]

I dont know if you're confusing me with someone else but I've hardly commented on Watts for the last year or so. Probably a couple of time since the Adelaide game and in this thread but not to the extent you're making out.

Either contribute to the conversation about our team and players or dont bother.

Stop bagging out Watts and stop clouding the issue.

What about you contributing in a more constructive way?

[Soidee 1,496]

Let's hope How and Dunn pull their fingers out this week and earn their spots. How in particular needs to do something other than flying for the occasional speccy.....our senior guys have been carried in recent weeks by the baby demons.

[Seraph 1,762]

Question; is Billy Stretch fast enough to play a run-with role on the likes of Bradley Hill or Isaac Smith?

Speed/evasiveness from several Hawks is the big thing I am worried about for this game.

Oh, Neville, Neville, save us, we need you!

I don't think anyone is fast enough/fit enough to run with Bradley Hill.

The guy is a freak.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I don't think anyone is fast enough/fit enough to run with Bradley Hill.

The guy is a freak.

Did we try Dom Barry on Hill last year? I can recall him doing a decent job on him in patches but Hill burnt him on the rebound far too regularly.

[Surfer Dee 210]

If Watts got dropped last year I'd have said his career would be hanging by a thread and he'd most likely be traded. This feels different. He just needs to get some form and he'll be back in. I like Watts when he's in form so I hope he works back in. With the young talent we have now I feel we're less reliant on Watts turning into some mega star that he clearly wont be.

Fingers crossed we don't get smashed this week. Would love Jeffy to kick 4+ as I feel he could have nearly done this in every game this year if he kicked straight.

[Gator 17,244]

Feel better?

About what ? I'm not the one who gets emotional about players.

I know you do though. Do you feel better ?

[Nascent 8,634]

I'm surprised Billy remains in the team, 7 touches in the first half and 0 in the second. He did look comfortable out there at the start of the game but not sure he has the tank required to see a full game out at AFL level just yet, let alone against a team as hard as the hawks. Will surely start as sub. Does look like a decent prospect though and look forward to watching his game develop throughout the year.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

About what ? I'm not the one who gets emotional about players.

I know you do though. Do you feel better ?

I'm good - never better.

Everything's much clearer now.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I'm surprised Billy remains in the team, 7 touches in the first half and 0 in the second. He did look comfortable out there at the start of the game but not sure he has the tank required to see a full game out at AFL level just yet, let alone against a team as hard as the hawks. Will surely start as sub. Does look like a decent prospect though and look forward to watching his game develop throughout the year.

I'm assuming he gets the vest this week. I agree on both counts that he looked good when he had the footy but clearly faded as the game went on. Happy for him to get another crack this week though as I believe he has a bright future at the club.