Jake Spencer. Has he begun to turn the corner?

[jazza 1,323]

It's funny that we all see the same game and have so varied opinions of what we see.

I only watched the last Q but I thought Spence's hitouts and the centre clearances were the reason we came back into the game

just saying....

same,also thought his work against gws in wet against mummy was workman like.

jury still out for me.

if he had 5 years in the ruck without being dropped,i would be willing to make a call.

[The Chazz 4,077]

It's funny that we all see the same game and have so varied opinions of what we see.

I only watched the last Q but I thought Spence's hitouts and the centre clearances were the reason we came back into the game

just saying....

Had the opportunity to totally dominate in the ruck. The amount of times Nicholls jumped way too early, leaving Spencer a "free" tap should've seen us own the clearances, thus reducing Ablett's impact.

Bordering on inexcusable some of that ruck work on Sunday - and that's just the tap work. Don't get me started on the 3 disposals for the game...

Edited April 22, 2014 by billy2803

[McQueen 17,864]

Had the opportunity to totally dominate in the ruck. The amount of times Nicholls jumped way too early, leaving Spencer a "free" tap should've seen us own the clearances, thus reducing Ablett's impact.

Bordering on inexcusable some of that ruck work on Sunday - and that's just the tap work. Don't get me started on the 3 disposals for the game...

See Gawn (19) and Jamar (14) hitouts from the VFL report are hardly dominating in the magoo's either.

No wonder Roosy had Mitch pencilled in for the first ruck.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

See Gawn (19) and Jamar (14) hitouts from the VFL report are hardly dominating in the magoo's either.

No wonder Roosy had Mitch pencilled in for the first ruck.

Whispering Jack's report says Jamar had 40 hitouts. Someone's got it wrong.

[McQueen 17,864]

Whispering Jack's report says Jamar had 40 hitouts. Someone's got it wrong.

I guess so.

From Brett Allison's report:

Mark Jamar: Mark played ruck/forward. He had 10 possessions and 14 hit outs. Mark rucked strongly and gave the midfielders first use of the ball. Pleasingly, he was able to have an impact up forward in the third quarter, when he took two strong marks and kicked two goals, which were a significant contribution to the win. Mark should be getting close to a senior recall, I wouldve thought.

Ed: 14 does seem incorrect when reading that "Mark rucked strongly and gave the midfielders first use of the ball."

Edited April 22, 2014 by McQueen

[Chook 14,997]

If you turn four corners, chances are you'll quickly find youself back where you started.

[McQueen 17,864]

If you turn four corners, chances are you'll quickly find youself back where you started.

Indeed.

[DeeSpencer 24,731]

41 and 19 probably makes more sense. I would've thought in Gawn's first game back that Jamar would've rucked twice as much as him not the other way around. Low scoring game so probably lots of ball ups

[jabberwocky 2,301]

If you turn four corners, chances are you'll quickly find youself back where you started.

Dependent on the angle of the corners and the direction that you take.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Our YTD total is 149 hit outs to 200 - a difference of -51. Given that we were +17 against St Kilda, in the last 3 weeks we are -68.

That's our biggest problem at this stage. Hence why Jamar has to come straight in at the first sign of 100% fitness.

I think the majority of against was the GWS game with Mumford.

So apart from that game, I think the Spence is doing OK, as a learning young ruck.

[george_on_the_outer 7,430]

Went to the game to watch my cousin Tom Nicholls play. Went into the game thinking even though Tommy is talented he is still pretty lean and I expected a bigger bodied Spencer to dominate. I walked away from the game proud of Tommy but absolutely disgusted the performance Spencer put up.

I don't care about last weeks performance this bloke is seriously not a AFL player. Can't mark, Can't Kick, can't do sweet FA..

The sooner he is out of the team the better we are. As I said in another thread, Pedersen was more valuable in the ruck then Spencer was all day.

Watched Spencer closely in a few stoppages and he is far too concerned with what his opponent is doing.

He needs to try and think of himself as someone others need to be concerned with - not the other way around.

Jamar/Gawn/Spencer - our rucks are very limited for various reasons.

Totally agree with both these observations. Spencer reverted to his worst rucking. Instead of looking at the ball, he keeps looking at the opponent. Result: he never gets his hand to the ball, which is his job as a ruckman.

Combine that with the fact that the guy just can't mark overhead, or kick the ball at AFL standard......The only reason he has got a game this season is we've had no other options at all.

He was virtually off the ground for the whole 3rd quarter, when Pedersen did the ruck work. That's when we showed some reversal of the one-way traffic out of the centre.

Jamar is a certainty for this week, and the sooner Gawn can get back as number 2 the better.

[Moonshadow 17,506]

Not sure Jamar offers us more than Spencil TBH. Jamar cannot mark, barely gets a kick and is renown for across the 'land for tapping the ball superbly to his feet where his team mates are not. At least Spencil want to hurt opposition players.

[spirit of norm smith 15,152]

Time to recruit for a new skilled ruckman.

[Damo 3,244]

We need a new ruckman more than we need a Key position F/B or a fast midfielder.

Gawn Spencer and Jamar are all flawed.

The only one of hope is Spencer who maybe just needs good coaching to get the best out of him.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

We need a new ruckman more than we need a Key position F/B or a fast midfielder.

Gawn Spencer and Jamar are all flawed.

The only one of hope is Spencer who maybe just needs good coaching to get the best out of him.

what is wrong with Gawn?

For a 22 year old, 208cm ruckman that has played 17 games, i think he is showing great promise.

Sandilands didn't set the world on fire immediately, the rucks rarely do.

[jacey 333]

At least Spencil want to hurt opposition players.

spencil looks like a beast and his strength is his asset but I don't remember him ever overpowering opposition rucks.

good hustle though.

Jamar has shown he can take a contested mark. too far and few but skill-set is there. Gawn's got the best hands out of them all.

Hopefully Jamar and Gawn are building some chemistry in the magoos.

[Akum 2,660]

The thing about Spencer is that our mids find it impossible to read where he's hitting it to.

The stoppages in the last quarter (except for Jones' goal) absolutely killed us.

[Pipefitter 2,133]

The sooner that Jamar comes in the better. The guy was AA for gods sakes. Spencer is about as far away as being an AA ruck man than I am at the moment.

[praha 11,119]

Watched Spencer closely in a few stoppages and he is far too concerned with what his opponent is doing.

He needs to try and think of himself as someone others need to be concerned with - not the other way around.

Jamar/Gawn/Spencer - our rucks are very limited for various reasons.

He looks for the contact. Surprised he doesn't get called on it more often.

TBH we're still being far too harsh. The kid has played, what, 30 games?

[rpfc 28,048]

He looks for the contact. Surprised he doesn't get called on it more often.

TBH we're still being far too harsh. The kid has played, what, 30 games?

Yes, I always temper my thoughts for those who are less experienced but he has had a pretty good mentor in Jamar for the last 5 years...

We all give Jamar a bad rap and (mostly) with good reason, but his tap work is top 5 in the comp when he is upright and running around.

And yet Spencer doesn't have the confidence to practice what he has seen at practice - it's a shame, he will never have an opportunity like this again. He isn't making as much of it as he could be.

He needs to fire up, looks inside himself and believe he is the best ruckman running around on the field (even if he isn't) and go for the ball.

Him worried about what Tom Nicholls is going to do is an indictment on his faith in himself.

[rjay 24,597]

what is wrong with Gawn?

For a 22 year old, 208cm ruckman that has played 17 games, i think he is showing great promise.

Sandilands didn't set the world on fire immediately, the rucks rarely do.

Problem is with injury. We don't get him on the ground.

[Axis of Bob 11,164]

Him worried about what Tom Nicholls is going to do is an indictment on his faith in himself.

Nicholls is an athletic, high leaping ruckman. His aim is to avoid body contact and outjump his opponent for the ball.

Spencer is a bash and crash ruckman. His job is to find the other ruckman and make him mistime his leap or smash into him. In order to do this he needs to know where the other ruckman is. It's unfashionable, but it worked for Darren Jolly for a decade.

Spencer is 8th in the league for hitouts. He is also 8th for average hitouts per game. He is ahead of Lobbe, Pyke, Cox, Grundy, McEvoy, McIntosh, Ryder, Naitanui and West. He's been doing a pretty decent job in the ruck.

[george_on_the_outer 7,430]

Nicholls is an athletic, high leaping ruckman. His aim is to avoid body contact and outjump his opponent for the ball.

Spencer is a bash and crash ruckman. His job is to find the other ruckman and make him mistime his leap or smash into him. In order to do this he needs to know where the other ruckman is. It's unfashionable, but it worked for Darren Jolly for a decade.

Spencer is 8th in the league for hitouts. He is also 8th for average hitouts per game. He is ahead of Lobbe, Pyke, Cox, Grundy, McEvoy, McIntosh, Ryder, Naitanui and West. He's been doing a pretty decent job in the ruck.

Bob the trouble is that Spencer doesn't crash and bash. He doesn't establish body contact or position, which Jolly did so well.

He looks directly at his opponent first, then tries to locate where the ball has gone. Because his vision moves from one to the other, he achieves neither. If he relocates where the ball is in the air, he is then unable to hit it to advantage, again because he has been eyeing the opponent and not where he is planning to put the ball.

It would be like a basketballer closing his eyes before shooting.

Spencer reverted to this style this week, but didn't do it in the St.Kilda game, so I don't know why the change in approach.

Pedersen was able to directly body Nicholls and got the desired effect in the 3rd quarter. That's when we started to get some clearances.

[rpfc 28,048]

Nicholls is an athletic, high leaping ruckman. His aim is to avoid body contact and outjump his opponent for the ball.

Spencer is a bash and crash ruckman. His job is to find the other ruckman and make him mistime his leap or smash into him. In order to do this he needs to know where the other ruckman is. It's unfashionable, but it worked for Darren Jolly for a decade.

Spencer is 8th in the league for hitouts. He is also 8th for average hitouts per game. He is ahead of Lobbe, Pyke, Cox, Grundy, McEvoy, McIntosh, Ryder, Naitanui and West. He's been doing a pretty decent job in the ruck.

I understand that. And prior to being able to see him live on Sunday I was happy with his progress.

I didn't see good technique however, as another poster said, he should have been penalised on a number of occasions when he didn't have eyes for the ball.