NAB CUP 3: ST. KILDA

[ex52k2 238]

At the game on Saturday and we looked different for most of the game except for that 12 minutes in the second quarter when it was business as usual. Short inaccurate kicking, handballing 2 metres to someone, anyone just to get rid of the ball.

St. Kilda looked more polished, because they were! They got their goals easier and ran the ball cleaner. But saying that we had a go and didn't get overwhelmed and fought back well to contain the damage of the 12 minute lapse. I don't think we could have come back like that last year.

Rodan gives us grunt and zip in the mid field should do well this year.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Did Farren Ray play for the Saints? If so, anyone able to report on his game?

[hardtack 10,537]

Did Farren Ray play for the Saints? If so, anyone able to report on his game?

See this post... it provides links to the club's video of each quarter:

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32779-nab-cup-3-st-kilda/?p=706792

[Whispering_Jack 30,087]

I was at the 186 game - I believe the answer was simply that Geelong was so good!

If only that was the explanation for the worst drubbing in the history of the game (I make some allowance for our 1979 debacle v Fitzroy because our team was injury-riddled and awful to start with). If you were right, Geelong would have beaten us by something like the 119 point margin they had over Port Adelaide in the 2007 grand final (and Port have yet to recover from that).

186 was a momentous event for which the entire club needed to accept collective responsibility. We needed to bring in change and remove the worst aspects of the pathetic culture that pervaded the club at that time and which was symbolised by that game. That's what happened and I'm surprised it was achieved so swiftly at this club because we've historically been so conservative and averse to change. New coach, new football department, massive turnover in players and the only thing we can't do overnight is become a power house of the competition because that's a really tough gig. Give it a bit of time but let's not kid ourselves about how bad we were in July 2011.

[Axis of Bob 11,805]

I was at the 186 game - I believe the answer was simply that Geelong was so good! (It has happened before in football history!)

This reeks of starting with the conclusion and then trying to find the evidence afterwards. It's like an argument for a 6000 year old earth.

If you were at the game then you must have been facing the wrong way.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,176]

I believe neither Sydney nor Hawthorn play the Geelong style. Last year's finals were unusual - IMO neither team deserved to win. Both Geelong and Adelaide dropped out somewhat unexpectedly - an analysis of the season and the finals is needed to understand this comment. Teams now trying to play the Geelong brand would include Kangas, Crows, Port Adelaide, Essendon to some extent, and Bulldogs but without the cattle. All these teams have former connections to Geelong, so no great surprise. Teams definitely not playing the Geelong style would include Collingwood, Carlton and MFC. Of course, there are degrees in how one assesses this, but I offer my thoughts as a response to your question - there are other clubs which could perhaps be classified differently. I am certainly open to discussion on this topic.

Thanks Hards. So of the 6 teams that were the last finalists only one played the Geelong brand. Were all of them aside from Adelaide undeserving? What makes you so adamant this is the right way to go? Do you think the Geelong brand or the Collingwood brand will be more suited to a capped interchange next year. I think either style can be successful if executed well. Really that comes down to what the coach thinks can bring success. Like others I'm not sure yet whether Neeld can coach yet and we will learn a lot this year.

Separate note on 186, when Jurrah lined up on Bartel on the wing at the first bounce I was ready to go home.

[Redleg 40,913]

Thanks Hards. So of the 6 teams that were the last finalists only one played the Geelong brand. Were all of them aside from Adelaide undeserving? What makes you so adamant this is the right way to go? Do you think the Geelong brand or the Collingwood brand will be more suited to a capped interchange next year. I think either style can be successful if executed well. Really that comes down to what the coach thinks can bring success. Like others I'm not sure yet whether Neeld can coach yet and we will learn a lot this year.

Separate note on 186, when Jurrah lined up on Bartel on the wing at the first bounce I was ready to go home.

I wish I had.

[btdemon 482]

Watts did some good things yesterday. He is calm and composed and generally wins more 50/50s than he loses. He's been very good in that role and I can certainly see him continue to play well as a rebounding defender this year. We don't have many players in our defence with his sort of composure and distribution under pressure, so it makes him avery important player for us.

I though Terlich was good, although I think he's a better attacker than defender at the moment. He's good with the footy and calm, but he needs to find the balance between his offence and defence.

Jamar was good, as he should have been.

I think, despite Sellar's excellent form, that Pederson is the better player for us in his role. He's a better runner and that's required pushing up the ground in the role they'll play. Pederson did some very good things that created opportunities for us, even if they didn't get on the stats sheet. He's a big, mobile body. Hopefully he is good enough in the ruck to play the role, although he broke even with the other back up rucks in Kosi and Blake. Sellar is a taller, stronger option, but I don't think that this is the role we need with Dawes and Clark to return.

Our defensive system is much better this year. You can tell that they are better drilled now and fitter, but we it isn't yet natural enough for us to do it without thought. In the second quarter we let them get the ball over the back and they go some very easy goals. Other than that we were probably the better side.

We do need, however, just that extra bit of class in teh midfield to be able to turn our half chances into easy chances, and our good play into goals. Just lacked that hint of crispness when it counted. St Kilda had some very classy midfielders that consistently took the chances to create that came to them.

Were you at the game? I wasn't and was wondering whether Watts spent a lot of time on the bench. Watching the replay I didn't see much of him. Maybe that would account for his meagre stats sheet?

[Damo 3,356]

So Watts is being discussed again. Funny there is not much said about No. 31.

[Hardnut 327]

Thanks Hards. So of the 6 teams that were the last finalists only one played the Geelong brand. Were all of them aside from Adelaide undeserving? What makes you so adamant this is the right way to go? Do you think the Geelong brand or the Collingwood brand will be more suited to a capped interchange next year. I think either style can be successful if executed well. Really that comes down to what the coach thinks can bring success. Like others I'm not sure yet whether Neeld can coach yet and we will learn a lot this year.

Separate note on 186, when Jurrah lined up on Bartel on the wing at the first bounce I was ready to go home.

You asked me (Hardnut btw not Hards) which teams I believe play the Geelong brand and I nominated 5 others (a total of one third of the afl teams, and I suspect there will be more to come). I threw in a comment about last year's finals for interest - Geelong lost a couple of early games in the season and hence finished lower than normal in the finals (their retirements also didn't help as we all know). The point is they have not changed their style. Adelaide were adopting the Geelong style, knocked Freo out and were very unlucky not to beat both eventual grand finalists. A simple, but fair analysis I think, (especially if the Kangas are included when they were just starting to change their play and clearly were not ready).

I explained that I like this style of play because it is attractive and true to the spirit of the game and pretty effective. I also think it is a more natural style of football and easier for players to learn - it is similar to what they have grown up with. I think only Collingwood has won using the boundary line style and Buckley seems to be moving away from that now anyway. Likewise, the Sydney style has changed, although it still has many remnants of the past - it certainly isn't attractive to watch. Hawthorn is another story.

Personally, I doubt any cap on rotations will affect one style more than the other - either way, the current cap is too low.

My recollection of 186 was wave after wave of Geelong players storming toward goal - almost always forward movement which they kept doing right to the Flag.

[Hardnut 327]

This reeks of starting with the conclusion and then trying to find the evidence afterwards. It's like an argument for a 6000 year old earth.

If you were at the game then you must have been facing the wrong way.

Actually Bob, I was in an almost perfect position at the ground to watch how Geelong built their attacks - it was brilliantly ruthless.

[Blistering 541]

My recollection of 186 was wave after wave of Geelong players storming toward goal - almost always forward movement which they kept doing right to the Flag.

You recall well. However, the difference between Melbourne's effort and that of the other clubs Geelong beat along the way is that, with one or two exceptions, there was no resistance whatsoever. No pride in their performance and no respect for the club, even their coach and least of all, the mug supporters who follow them through thick and thin.

This was tanking that we won't get penalised for but if it meant the end of Bailey and some of the insipid footballers who were supposed to be leading us that day, I'll gladly cop the $500k.

[Hardnut 327]

If only that was the explanation for the worst drubbing in the history of the game (I make some allowance for our 1979 debacle v Fitzroy because our team was injury-riddled and awful to start with). If you were right, Geelong would have beaten us by something like the 119 point margin they had over Port Adelaide in the 2007 grand final (and Port have yet to recover from that).

186 was a momentous event for which the entire club needed to accept collective responsibility. We needed to bring in change and remove the worst aspects of the pathetic culture that pervaded the club at that time and which was symbolised by that game. That's what happened and I'm surprised it was achieved so swiftly at this club because we've historically been so conservative and averse to change. New coach, new football department, massive turnover in players and the only thing we can't do overnight is become a power house of the competition because that's a really tough gig. Give it a bit of time but let's not kid ourselves about how bad we were in July 2011.

Some good points there Jack - maybe the truth lies somewhere in between our comments - I do recall some horrible losses in the 80s as well, before we improved, only to get thrashed in a Grand Final.

[Hardnut 327]

You recall well. However, the difference between Melbourne's effort and that of the other clubs Geelong beat along the way is that, with one or two exceptions, there was no resistance whatsoever. No pride in their performance and no respect for the club, even their coach and least of all, the mug supporters who follow them through thick and thin.

This was tanking that we won't get penalised for but if it meant the end of Bailey and some of the insipid footballers who were supposed to be leading us that day, I'll gladly cop the $500k.

I'm not disagreeing with you Blistering.

[DeeSpencer 25,691]

Anything from the match review panel regarding Kosi's hit on Garland. He looked to line him up very late to me.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,050]

Anything from the match review panel regarding Kosi's hit on Garland. He looked to line him up very late to me.

History suggests that Melbourne players are considered fair game in the pre-season comp. I can't remember the last time someone was suspended for a hit on one of our players.

Edit: Has there been a more recent one than Long on Simmonds?

Edited March 11, 2013 by RalphiusMaximus

[P-man 13,366]

So Watts is being discussed again. Funny there is not much said about No. 31.

Did very little it has to be said.

Seems to escape the blowtorch on here does Grimey, compared to many others.

[rjay 24,921]

Did very little it has to be said.

Seems to escape the blowtorch on here does Grimey, compared to many others.

Runner up in B&F last year, first full injury free year, only MFC player rated elite by the dodgy brothers. I think he's going ok.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Did very little it has to be said.

Seems to escape the blowtorch on here does Grimey, compared to many others.

he did come 2nd in the bnf

[jnrmac 20,061]

Sick of hearing people blame the umps. They say it like theyr is a conspiracy to make the dees lose by giving frees to the other team.

The reason we get less frees is because we are always 2nd to the ball. If our players were always first to the ball those free stats would look completely different.

That is actually not true.

The inconsistency is abhorrent. COuldnt be bothered listing them but the number is extremely high where one holding the ball is paid and another virtually similar isn't, Its a problem when you have 9 games a weekend with 3 umpires plus emergency. PLus boundary umps can jump in and call frees as well. Consistency just falls away and away....

[Hannibal 5,814]

I watch games unrelated to Melbourne and the umpires make me want to throw a brick at my tv. The frees have never been softer.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I watch games unrelated to Melbourne and the umpires make me want to throw a brick at my tv. The frees have never been softer.

Agree 100% -

We didn't lose on Sat because of the umpires please understand that before you read my comments

The umpiring interpritation for the current game is turning it in to netball - I guess the AFL wants more free flowing footy and less body use

[jnrmac 20,061]

What does Moloney have to do with this? I'm talking about YOUR obsession with 186.

Oh yeah that's right, The game that Moloney slept through.....

[P-man 13,366]

Runner up in B&F last year, first full injury free year, only MFC player rated elite by the dodgy brothers. I think he's going ok.

No doubt (although I'd question the value of the B&F last year considering the competition..winning second prize in a one man team). Just an observation that his poorer performances tend to escape criticism compared to Watts, Trengove and others. Edited March 11, 2013 by P_Man

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Did Farren Ray play for the Saints? If so, anyone able to report on his game?

Yes he did play - can't say I paid much attention to his game, but I don't think he go a lot of it

Tough day to play