Leaderboard

11.30 am start. Plenty in runners, so expecting some running. Sparg's, Viney and Kossi (with his knee taped) have light duties. No BBB, Rehab has, Tmac, Rosman and Moniz-wakefield. Same as last Monday, on for 30 minutes, mainly running with a casual kick for goal, then back to the sheds. I think Kossi will be good, though was favouring his taped leg. The rehab group is still working hard.

Don't forget the big name player discount.

If you need an example of an outstanding performance by a player that subsequently doesn't go on to deliver what was then expected, look no further than Weid in a final a few years ago.

I heard that Dogga really wants to stay, but Naughton, Gunston, Josh Kennedy and Griffin Logue will push him out.

There’s no way he’ll get off without suspension. Ah Chee was concussed, and if there’s one thing the AFL doesn’t want to be seen being flippant about anymore it’s concussion. Ah Chee will miss a match next week, but Cripps gets to play? Absolutely no way.

I agree, Mr Howe. Ed has received exactly what he deserved

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but the bits of threads that I've been reading seems to show that many people don't get this. I was there on Friday night and watched in frustration in the second quarter (and really the whole game) as we kicked repeatedly to a magical spot in the forward pocket on the members side, close to the boundary. It rarely lead to marks, or crumbs to goals and was usually swept away by Collingwood's defence or got knocked out of bounds. The old dees supporter behind me kept saying "oh what a terrible kick" every time it went there as if it wasn't what the player intended to do. But this is our game plan! We have the best contested players in the game and a defence that can outsmart and outmark their opponents (if it doesn't come in too quick). Unless we are breaking away from centre clearance or whizzing it forward from a turnover, we go forward and kick there as it allows us (playing the percentages) to use our advantages. If we kick to the top of the goal square there is less likely to be a stoppage if we don't mark and good teams with fast ball movement will have both sides available (and the centre corridor) to quickly move the ball up the field with little pressure which puts enormous pressure on our defence. But obviously there's a trade off: When we do mark, they are tough shots. Equally when we do crumb it requires brilliance - either in handball chains or snaps like you saw from Petracca in the grand final. Clearly it works - particularly if with our (once) superior fitness, we can play our game far longer than the opposition. But after Friday night, I'm wondering: (a) are the best opposition teams we've faced - Collingwood / Geelong, Swans, even the dogs a few weeks back - able to get us because of their aggressive ball movement and determination not to get caught in our trap of playing on the side we want them to. I.e. Would these teams have troubled our team last year as they have practiced a strategy designed to beat ours? (b) would we play differently if we had key forwards we could be more confident in - say Naughton or Curnow? Part of me thinks not because we still do this when Gawn is down there and he looks as dangerous as anyone in a contested mark situation. (c) Is this really just about the pressure from our forwards / midfielders in closing down the outlets. I.e. do they just need to go a bit harder for a bit longer and then we win the game? (d) If we aren't able to defeat any of these teams in the finals, should we be tweaking this style over summer (not unlike Geelong last summer). As I've mentioned on here previously, although I understand the strategy, I also wish we took a few more risks. A player kicking to that pocket when they are kicking over the mark from 70m out is very predictable. Would love to see some handballs off to a runner who has the odd ping from 55m. Even at an estimated strike rate of 1/3 that is better than what kicking to that pocket every time is getting us. Thoughts?

Strange night for Max. I had him BOG also, but his kicking for goal cost us the game.

Should go but I suspect the wheels are turning to prevent any suspension. If that happens you have to feel for someone like Kade Chandler, a “no name” who took a two week suspension just when on the cusp of getting a regular game.

From The Hun today Petracca 58 shots for 16 goals Gawn 34 shots for 11 goals ANB 25 shots for 6 goals and Spargo 22 shots for 9 goal no wonder Bayley Fritsch doesn't like to pass off.

I’ll also add that I’m annoyed Elliott got votes. 2 of his goals came from incorrect HTB decisions. It was only the Hibberd one which was clear. Jordan and Viney had basically no prior.

Been wanting to do this analysis for a little while. (posted this in the wrong section) Just a simple look at round 1-10 compared with 11-21 on our scoring in quarters ( Some old school excel skills at use) So in round 1-10 3rd quarter was our best and we kept teems under 15 points across all quarter in rounds 11-21 second half's were horrid (15 points) where the oppo is coming home with a surge Same data but expressed differently Don't want to get into a loading conversation but just wanted to show these trends and (other than loading) what is going on here.

You not playing the 3 dimensional chess that the AFL is playing. MRO suspends and then the Tribunal lets him off. Win Win. We lose of course.

You set 'em up and I'll knock 'em down! There's no apostrophe in "apostrophes".

Hey Guys, Love the show. It got me through the hard times of 2019 and 2020. Then in 2021 I loved sharing the ride with you guys. Tonight's episode cant come quick enough, I need the closure. I've avoided podcasts, live radio, apps, websites and socials since Friday. The only medicine for my MFCSS is the Demonland Podcast. My thoughts on the game: Pies kicked 15 goals 6 behinds (2 rushed). Dees are missing 25 meters out directly in front.

I have done this at a couple of Ammo clubs and developed a couple of things which greatly assist nailing set shots but two things which the club should stop immediately are 1 This ball twirl rubbish. 2 This exaggerated arc run approach

Whilst this year is clearly still in play for a flag, I'm already excited for the off-season to see what moves we'll make. Nothing much has changed this year from last as far as game-style and personnel go (bar the last couple of weeks with Melksham's inclusion and Gus going through the middle), which has given every other club a chance to go to town on us from last year to this year. Next year is a chance to tinker with personnel and game-plan (slightly) given the hand we'll have from Jackson leaving. We should be excited, it's come at the best possible time for us. A few others made mention of Richmond targeting Lynch post 2018 and what his inclusion helped bring. Two flags. We're in the same boat. We are so strong in so many facets but I think we're a couple of players short of being unstoppable. Contest and defence won't stop. That's our foundation. But I really dislike it when posters talk down our obvious forwardline/half struggles. The notion that it doesn't matter how many goals we kick if we're keeping teams under 60 points a game is a silly one and our losses to Collingwood last week and the Dogs a few weeks ago is the evidence. Our defensive system is not always humming so we need to make the most of our opportunities going forward and this off-season is the time to address that. Our biggest weakness is most obviously our inefficiency going forward as well as converting shots at goal in general play, regardless of the area we are sometimes instructed to kick due to our game-plan. Upgrade on personnel is vital. You can't tell me if we had McKay and Curnow instead of Brown and a resting ruckman we wouldn't be more lethal. Similarly some of our second string rotational players. Goody has a difficult task of looking at players like ANB, Harmes, Jordan and Sparrow and deciding whether we could replace one of them with someone with different strengths. ANB brings so much off the ball. But we could have a player with slightly less gut-running ability and more potency with ball in hand. I look at what Geelong have done and they look like a completely different team with only minimal tweaks. The inclusion of a fit and firing Cameron and Stengle from this year alone. They look impenetrable. So many times our inability to convert and connect going inside 50 has undone all our hard defensive and contest work. It burns us the other way because we've worked so hard going forward. We've had so many opportunities to bury teams once being up and simply haven't been able to mainly due to skill errors and poor execution. Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw. They're never losing a hard ball. Langdon's running ability is amazing for an outside player. Jordan solid in his role. Sparrow, Harmes, ANB all handy with ANB being exceptional for his off the ball running ability. But one thing they all have in common is their inconsistent ball use and composure. We simply need to even up the ledger and add some players into the mix who use the ball really well so that at times we can pull the trigger and not always have to play default safe down the line as our game-plan wants. This is especially important given how predictable we are now in the way we play and what opposition teams are expecting. If you have a player with better ball use and composure. They're going to hit some kicks at angles and through the middle on occasions that could really give us great looks. A genuine contested marking/goal kicking threat and a couple of dynamic X-factor players with class who can still play a half-forward role/mid rotation is what we're screaming out for. Address this and we're golden.

I had a conversation with Jason Taylor at the President's Club on Friday night. He played a pretty straight bat. Me - "What's Dogga doing next year?" JT - "He's going okay, isn't he." I asked him again. JT - "We'll be good either way." Me - "How would Freo even come close to doing a deal if he does go? They'd have to get another club involved." JT - "We've been having these conversations for a while now. We'll do well out of it."

If our best game plan is to kick to the same pocket ignoring all other options, then I’m now even more concerned about our chances this year…

I hope they do. And I hope they get it down to one week. Purely because I want them ti beat the pies in round 23 as we might end up needing them to. That, and it would infuriate pies fans.

I'd prefer one week, so he misses against us but comes back for Collingwood.

I'm wearing my favourite t-shirt at this very moment!

Imagine if Neal-Bullen did this - straight 6 weeks. Cripps I think may only get one so he can be there for R23 same as bombay

I think he’ll get one. Not based on any logic other than the AFL will want to be seen to be doing something but they also want him there for rd 23 when Carlton plays the Pies.

DONT FORGET THEY WANT CARLTON IN THE FINALS, NOT ONLY WILL HE GET OFF WITH A FINE, HE WILL GET 4 FREE KICKS RIGHT IN FRONT OF GOAL ON SATURDAY NIGHT.

Hmmm. Can't see him in the photo below.

We all loved that period in the Grand Final and not every player can produce that. I don't want to see him go because I do think he will be something special but we do have to be honest: How often do we see the flash in the pan performance that a club gets sucked in to and it turns out to be a total bust of a decision? I'm not saying this will definitely happen but there is a chance that it could. Selling while the stock is high wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

It's only the supporters with their head in the sand who believe that Jackson hasn't made his decision to leave. And that includes those who think he'll stay if Melbourne aren't adequately compensated. I've said all along that our Football Dept / List Management team have always been forward thinking around the trade and draft periods. They like to get deals done early so that they can move on to the next deal. They're not like Dodo at Essendon, who will hold out just so that he thinks he's won the deal. I have faith in Tim Lamb and JT, and believe that they understand what a realistic trade with Freo looks like. And they'll use that draft capital to broker other deals. They wouldn't be wasting everyone's time by making ambit claims for Andy B, Young or Serong, as some suggest they should.

I can see Collingwood’s belief taking them to a Prelim. And from there anything is possible as they found out in 2010 and 2018. It sounds trite, but god we skipped over earnest and honest enjoyment of footy to arrogant expectation due to 4 games of footy last year - it is so hard to win a flag, let alone repeat and we should respect those that are rising (or hopefully falling - Geelong) more than we do. Collingwood remind me of us in 2018. We were brash and a bit sloppy but hard as nails and willing to work. We beat a hardened Geelong and a Hawthorn team with little left but then were dispatched by a WCE team that respected us enough to destroy us and everything we stood for. We need to show that same respect.

I love how Demonland is so pessimistic about us being 3rd on the ladder, but can convince itself effortlessly that a generational forward from a competing team is going to stroll on over into our goal square.

Yes I was. Attended both finals and every Melbourne game here since moving over.

2 weeks ✅

@Demonstone Your response-time to a grammar infringement is quicker than the actual police.

Bugger that - I want the double chance.

I too have avoided all media since the game - the first time all season, such is my frustration. But it's crazy - bb marks on the wing with about 2 mins to go, we control the ball and probably win. And in that parallel universe, I lap up every second of media I can. Ugh. By the by, spoiler alert, the short version of why we lost is tbe same as yours. Bad kicking is bad football.

Good on you Kev

I think the "Melksham instead of a genuine tall forward" experiment is over. There were so many times that our small forwards and midfielders easily got to the fall of kicks into the F50 but instead of contesting the mark, took position front and centre expecting one of our talls to contest only for there to be an uncontested mark to Collingwood. We can't allow that to continue so need to bring in someone to support BBB. I think Weids is out of chances so has to be JVR or Joel SMith if he trains well. No more of Max starting at FF. Start him in the middle. Jackson made some costly errors early on Friday and is still a second ruck that can provide some great cameos as the game wears on. It's not pooular but I can see why we kick to the pocket. They went end to end on us after an intercept mark in the middle of our back 50 late on Friday. That doesn't happen if the intercept is deep in the pocket. They broke us down and scored by creating overlap at our half forward area. Too many bees to the honey pot was often the cause initially then they got the run through the corridor and took it forward at speed which is very hard to defend. Was it our system not working or was it someone (or several) not sticking to the system? Whatever it was, it needs work to combat Collingwood and Sydney's ball movement. Cold comfort, but we actually got a lot of things right. I went home thinking that 4 out of 5 times we'd probably win that game. We won most key stats, kicked for goal badly, watched them kick for goal unbelievably and didn't get the rub of the green with HTB frees in front of goals (the McCreey non call in our goal square soon followed by the red hot call against JJ quite soon after stand out). The expected score had us winning by 13 points. Fingers crossed it is 2018 repeating, with Collingwood playing the role of 2018's Melbourne side, who when playing an exciting brand of footy went to Perth late in the season to beat WCE. "The Dees played eye-catching footy, moving the ball with pace and putting West Coast's rock-solid defence under severe pressure." was how it was reported. We all remember how 2018 ended up.

29 disposals, 5 tackles, 8 marks, 6 I50's and a goal for our future father son recruit over the Western Jets yesterday. Unfortunately Oakleigh got a touch up by the Jets, but young Kynan was prominent for the chargers.

I can’t believe nobody has mentioned Pendlebury dropping his elbow into Langdon’s face on the ground. Langdon should’ve received a free for that first tackle. Howe is a nobody.

That will be going on our whiteboard.

I think we have to look at someone like a Lloyd Meek, Sam Hayes and Matt Flynn to come in and play a support role next year. There's no doubt we have to recruit a developing ruck in the national draft as well. I'd even add a delisted free agent just for extra insurance.

Here’s to a little more of a positive outlook. The dees can definitely still win the flag this year. Imo we have started rounding the corner with our form over the past few weeks depsite what some might think. We have much to look forward to. R19 Loss - 10 point loss against a plucky and revengeful dogs outfit, played some good footy against them. R20 Win - 46 point win over a strong dockers outfit on their home deck, back to our defensive best. R21 Loss - 7 point loss to a momentum riding pies outfit. Dominated all areas of the game, the pies are riding a wave of extreme momentum but the footy they’re playing is not necessarily convincing. Keep the faith fellow supporters, we have so much talent and the next few years to look forward to; JVR, Laurie, Chandler, Howes and Bedford all potential gun players, plus whoever else we pick up along the way.

Who is going to tell Max how to kick a set shot from 20-30m out? He seemed to sort this out and now has reverted to too long a run up, swinging the ball around and hooking out to the right. Is it even worth playing him deep forward at the moment with the yips he has in front of goal? Would we be better off with Jackson deep forward and Max primary ruck?

He has become particularly unlikeable. I remember when Chip left, Jared Rivers, Lynden Dunn, Watts, etc and I only wanted to see them do well. Not at our expense of course, but they'd given great service and publically at least seemed very appreciative of their time with us even if it hadn't been a bed of roses. For me Howe is down there with Scully.

Lol I honestly don't see what the issue is? He's only firing back to what Langdon said pre game. They obviously used it as extra motivation. Had it been the other way around and it was Howe saying the exact same thing pregame and our players came out with this then we'd be all lauding what a legend of a bloke our player is for firing back. I love the words fired back and forth now. If there was a chance to meet Collingwood in the finals then something tells me this will create a bit extra spice to the game and our players will certainly make sure we're not losing 3 times in a year to these maggots.

Amazing that one minute the Pies are crying foul about their silly child who throws himself in to every tackler looking for high contact, but then spent Friday night going head high at players tackled to the ground. Happened to Langdon, happened to ANB, happened a handful of times. If we play them again we need a lesson on tackling intensity. Honestly, find a list spot for Vanders and give him the first 5 minutes of the game.

Just a reminder, Oliver's game consisted of 14 clearances and 8 tackles, with 24 contested possessions from 42. What's the record for clearances? The bloke is an A+++er.

One thing that frustrated me about our entries on Friday…the number of times Spargs was completely open in the forward line and he was just ignored. There’s one way to get his possession rate up…use him instead of dump kicking it to our outnumbered and outsized fwd line.

Serious contender for silliest thread of the year.