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Media are cranking up their 'we can't be trusted' story again which might be a good thing for this game. We should probably translate it into latin and add it to our club logo.

Lot of people praising Jack for his "toughness", "loyalty", "heart and soul" etc. but not many praising him for his ability to affect scoring chains, hitting targets or making good decisions. That says it all really. Heart and soul doesn't win games, skill execution does. It's time for Jack to reinvent himself. He is a liability in the middle now.

The link is mental fragility. I remember the 2004 side like it was yesterday, I was 17. I don't remember there being any unforeseen circumstances that meant we lost 5 straight to end the season. Whether Melb supporters like to hear it our not, we've been a basket case club for a long time and an average club for a longer time. It takes years to change perceptions and narratives and years to build new perceptions and narratives. At the moment, proud, strong and successful clubs can still beat us and I place part of that, even if small on the fact that we've been a walk over club for a long time. I can only imagine what Clarkson would have been saying at half time to his players and I doubt it'd have been glowing MFC talk. If you've been involved at footy at any level, you know what I'm talking about. We have the chance to write our own future, build new perceptions and narratives about the Melbourne footy club. We're obviously a different team, different personalities and individually these guys wouldn't be thinking about these kinds of things. But opposition coaches, media personell, supporters and the rest have a whole different perspective on what a club stands for. And many many people still don't believe we're onto anything. I mean, one only needs to experience being at a Melbourne home game against a lower side to get a glimpse/feeling into what Melb supporters have been through. It's in the air and in the way we support.

I only fear the bottom 4 sides

WTF? Always good to have scapegoat I guess but Aaron shouldn't be your guy. He was excellent in the first half. His ball use was great. Linked up well. The fact that he even played in the second half after getting smashed by McEvoy was a credit to him. If you want to identify reasons we lost. Here are five: Our key target TMac couldn't get a touch. Our best inside 50 guy Petracca went at 55 percent disposal efficiency. Our two other main midfielders Oliver and Viney turned it over 18 times! We can't kick a set shot. Jackson had four effective disposals for the day.

There is no way they have made a decision on this

right so lets see how she is after 50 years of following this lot too early to tell.

I watched Gawny in the third qtr try to lift the team through individual efforts but it just didn't work. It struck me that when we're really put under pressure we fall back to the old individual selfish habits (through good intentions). We try to bust through too many tackles, don't take first options, burn team mates going forward etc etc. Geez we have the talent and it would be an absolute travesty if we don't take at least one flag with this team within the next three years. But...... This is all about what's between the ears of both the players and the coaching staff. Culture, Professionalism, Preparation, Discipline, Mental Toughness, Team First

What a load of tripe

Melbourne Demons, Non possumus confidebat

Well said, can’t believe the hate for Viney, these are the same posters that hate Melksham but now seem to want him back in tagging Libba would be the perfect task for Jack While we’re at it maybe Harmes tags Bont & Salem into the midfield

Imagine we've probably seen our last regular season game in person. Bad week for Dogs, lost a player to ACL, another player to quarantine and now have to face the top8 juggernaut

Need to win This as I can’t see us beating Adelaide or Gold Coast.

2 coaches votes for Jack. Surely from Clarkson.

Doggies haven't been playing well, so happy for us to beat them and then lock ourselves into top 2. Bring it on.

We are still learning how to be a team that sits up at the pointy end of the ladder. Every week we are a scalp, particularly to lower teams who don't play as well. It's a paradox, but those sides shut us down more effectively than better teams who trust their system and ability to outplay us. GWS & Hawks both flooded, cramped us for space and we ended up in fumble city. Then got lucky in that we panicked. That the HFC goal kicking was a lot straighter than ours helped their cause, but really our destiny was in our own hands.Adelaide, it was more that it was just their day. Everything worked for them that day. Collingwood, the occasion was made for them and they responded. Regardless, each time we had it in our power to prevail. The players make some noise before the season about how angry they were about last year. I hope there is still some vestige of that left over, that they can use to motivate themselves to be up all the time.

Yeah over the boundary line out on the full

Just in case anyone isn't aware, we cannot miss finals from here. We're 5.5 games clear of 9th with 5 games to go. Relax, Demonlanders. We have qualified for the finals.

You'd hope that next season the mathematical genius who develops the AFL Fixture might let each team play each other once before any repeat games are scheduled. That way, if the season needs to be shortened it can be done fairly. I've never understood why we play some sides twice before we complete a match against all sides.

The doom-mongering on this site is becoming unnecessary. I don't think anyone thought they were 'gone' after they outplayed PA at their home ground just a week ago.

I'm more confident of beating the Doggies than the Suns

He had 14 contested possessions (31 possessions in total) and 11 tackles. Go back and hide under your rock mate.

Salem is to valuable coming out of the backline.

Harmes will tag Libba

Agree. That's what leads to that idiotic attempted pass by Fritta, when 40 out on the boundary and we are leading by 5 points, deep into the last quarter. He passed to a small forward, with 3 Hawks defenders all around him, to try and get it to a better scoring position, when a point would have won us the game and even at that stage, wasted a bit more time. The result was the obvious spoil, with the ball rushed up the other end of the ground. While I am at it, where were the leaders telling him to take his 30 seconds and make sure he gets a score at least with the kick?

Outside Spargo, we seem to have reverted to our bomb it long and hope plan which is a Our midfield group is fine, the issues you're mentioning are highlighted because of a poor game, but they weren't the cause of the poor game. The MFC is really simple, when we bring our effort, pressure, intensity we're the best side in the comp, when we don't, any side can beat us. it's impossible to do that every single week though, no team has ever managed it, what we have to do as a side though is bridge the gap between our best and worst, if we had been 10% better when we're off, we could potentially be looking at still being undefeated. and the beautiful thing is, we still have not been genuinely outplayed, when we've been anywhere near our best, that's the nice thing. all the other sides have.

And there lies the cause of the problem for Jack. I suspect all his life from Junior days onwards, Jack has been patted on the back for hunting the ball and racking up possessions. Have any coaches had the desire to tell him to leave some balls for others and one good kick is better than three bad kicks. I doubt it. This whole tough guy mystique around him leaves me cold.

They looked at his stats. 32 disposals looks good anywhere regardless how effective they are.

Viney was given votes in The Age as equal second best on the field against Hawthorn ?

Didn't he play on the weekend? I understand he has twice tested negative but if he has to isolate for 14 days despite the negative result why aren't his teammates or the opposition in isolation too?

It's all about the individual. They get sucked into the media hype and coaches votes from say the Port Adelaide game, and so then it's all about who can be the hero to get the Monday special mention. Look at the way Oliver carried on like a pork chop when Spargo takes that mark. You would never seen Selwood or Hodge carry on like he did. It looked like a teammate pulled him up on it and so they should. Even at half time when the camera panned to Oliver and Petracca and they are seen laughing and giggling inside the change rooms. I knew straight away then that this game was going to be close as initially thought. It's all mental. These blokes pick and choose when they want to show up and player footy on the back of 0 success.

I feel like not making the GF this year would be a huge waste given our draw and our start. It would leave a very sour taste. Opportunities like this do not come along often and we're not a dynasty-like Hawks or reliable Cats outfit.

The message rings true, not sure why posters are knocking the thread. Right now, at this point in the year we're a team that is bringing inconsistent levels of intensity and inconsistent levels of skill execution to games. We're in control of our own destiny and if we want to give ourselves the best opportunity of winning a flag, top four is a must but really I hope we finish second so we get a home first final at the G. (pending Covid). We've been amazingly good this year for much of it. But the losses to the lower sides and less than impressive wins against the others do concern me. It's completely between the ears, we are still so immature in many ways. Allowing Hawthorn back into the game, with the outs they have the team we were fielding is simply unforgivable and speaks directly to the complacency and immaturity that still exists. We start well, put on a strong lead and then drop off in all areas by 5% which is enough for Clarkson's strong, hungry and proud Hawthorn side to kick a bag of unanswered goals, get their tails up and then keep their intensity for the remainder of the game. Our arousal levels have been unquestionably strong against top sides. We have no problem getting ourselves up. But then we come up against lesser sides and just don't give the same level of respect for long enough during games. That's it right there. Give the same level of respect for long enough. I thought we looked on and hungry in the first quarter against the Hawks. But it's as if our entire midfield all at once drop intensity, skill level and decision making by 5% due to having a comfortable lead so early in a match against a lesser side. There's still a fair bit of growing up to do imo.

Our game plan is based on a team defence, so is reliant on the 18 players on the ground doing the right thing. As mentioned by other posters we have a number of players under 50 games and a few of our stars are also under 25yo. This still leads to fluctuations in performance, get up for the big games, but slight mental drop off against the weaker teams. Try win game off own boot vs selfless actions and team first. Look at when Tigers really became successful, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt were all 26yo plus and I think Dusty 25/26. Our best is very good, whether we can sustain it is the question! As when we have, Dogs, Lions, Port, Tigers we killed them. In fact had we have kicked straight in all those games, you would have seen margins closer to 45-60 points in each. Give Viney 2-3 more weeks and Bbb 3-4 more weeks, so they both are at full match fitness. I would double down on goal kicking practice for every player on the list and also be tempted to give all the guys under 2 years one game off before finals - ok will defer to Burgess?! But my big two are: - double down on goal kicking practice - make sure from a fitness perspective we are cherry ripe for finals My gut feel is we might just be shy of what is required this year, but as there are no standout teams, if we can stay fit, and improve our goal kicking by 2 accurate shots a game(this would have resulted in only one loss for the season), we might just sneak a flag! Go Demons! seize the day!

Still not a reason for Oliver's carry on.

I think it is more about making the most of the opportunity you have. We are on top of the ladder, 2 and a half games clear of 5th, there is an opportunity to give yourself every chance to play off in a GF. Also how quickly it can all turn, 2 years later the 2004 playing group was done we dropped off the cliff in 2007 and have been struggling to climb that cliff for the past 14 years. We are in great position, take the challenge and don't look back with regrets of what could have been. What can be is a double chance that gives you the best opportunity to play off in a GF.

How many shocks do you reckon it'll take? Crows Pies GWS Now this To go with the pretty salty efforts against ladder laggards early in year, NM, Hawks till 3/4 time, Carlton, etc.

Imagine being Ben Brown a leading key forward looks up to see Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Langdon, Harmes, AVB, ANB and Petracca kicking the ball to him, you have no idea where that ball will go. The only Time you lead with confidence is if Salam or Spargo are kicking the footy to you

So the question then arises, when all the talk pre-season was about the group buy in and being selfless, how can the last 6 weeks have happened? Have we used all our petrol tickets too early in the year? Were we too reliant on the young guys (Riv, Jacko, Kossie) to provide spark? Are they all a bit fatigued and trying to feather their own nests? Has the Weideman/Brown drama caused some instability, likewise Viney being rushed back in? In my opinion, Jordon being shifted out of the permanent mid role has reduced our efficiency. He is very balanced and smart around the ball, his tackles stick and he genuinely plays a team-first style. He also covers the ground well. Same could be said for Sparrow, he didn't win the ball as much as Viney and was prone to the odd brain fade, but he was definitely working to the team first mantra. We had a more dynamic mix early in the year.

So true..

This not turning up mentally to games against low ranked sides needs to stop. NOW. Send a message that complacency, laziness and/or poor skills will not be tolerated. I don't care if we do not win another game and finish bottom half of the 8, and get bundled out first week. Build a ruthless winning culture. Weideman for Jackson Sparrow for Brayshaw Bowey for Hibberd Jones for Viney Melksham for Neal-Bullen Chandler for Pickett On notice - Brown

It might also explain why Libba was rested this week too.

It seems to me that we want Viney majority midfield in finals, so we're essentially rehearsing continuity and connection now. Problem is I think Jack will be much more effective used in bursts through the midfield, but majority forward, like he was earlier in the season. It's a bad move, but I reckon the FD are showing their hand on the set up we want for finals. IMV, Jack should be forward, Petracca should be more middle, Gus should be on the defensive wing and JJ used as the defensive mid.

I suspect we're not saved the Darwin trip, not yet anyway. My gut tells me the whole reason they're making these moves is because the NT won't let us in this week, so they want to delay it a further week to see if the NT will let us in next week. I can't see why these three games need to be moved otherwise - if Port can FIFO, surely Brisbane (vs Hawthorn) and Adelaide (vs the Dogs) could too.

You do know we beat the Dogs this year already, right? At their preferred venue? It's very easy to feel despondent after a loss or, in this case, a draw, but reflecting on the season so far we are very much in the hunt for this win.

I hope that stunned mullet look on the players faces after last night is poignant. They don’t need a lecture. I hope it shocked them in a positive way.

Let me get this straight; the team NQR team that made its way from 1st to 5th needs to come and yell at the team that 10 points clear of 5th with 5 rounds to go. A team that has beaten every other team in the 8 that it has played, and has 5 bonafide stars of the game? Paul Wheatley - you yell at Trent Rivers. Brad Miller - give a spray to Charlie Spargo. Honestly.

The kick was a miscommunication between him and Jackson. Jackson needed to double back towards the ball and Viney thought he was …. but he didn’t so the kick looked silly even though the idea was right. The movement was very poor from the forwards, with all three running back towards goal and none come forwards to separate the defenders. The only option Viney had inside 50 was a bomb to the top of the square to what would have been a pack situation. It was terrible forward play.

Thank god, a game against a top 8 side. Can’t possibly lose now.

Second quarter, 7.30 in. We're 26 points up having just kicked a goal. We win the centre clearance, Oliver kicks to Viney inside the centre square and he takes a mark. He plays on as he has space in front of him: There are two players deeper than Fritsch, who you can see gesturing for the ball to his advantage. He can take at least a few more steps but chooses to kick at this point, ostensibly to the deeper players, but his kick lands nowhere near a leading Melbourne forward and ultimately right in a hole covered by three Hawthorn defenders: This is the sort of thing we see all too often from Viney, with no real improvement in this area of his game. If that kick is the limit of his distance, why didn't he take a few more steps? He could have drawn vandenBerg's opponent and had the handball out laterally.