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Surprised no one has mentioned Michael Hibberd's game on Charlie Cameron. I know he kicked 2 goals but he was completely shut out of the game and never looked like he he was going to threaten. Well done Hibbo.

After re-watching the '87 elimination final last night I'd also bring in Todd, but as a medical sub.

I don’t think anyone is an automatic inclusion. Except when it’s Jack Viney.

I'd rather he could take a mark and kick goals

I’ve said to a few mates this year in footy conversations this is by far the best Demons team I have ever seen I started supporting in 1980 and I’ve seen us have teams with greater spread of individual talent, but not a team who sets up and sacrifices their own game for the good of the team. Having said that we do have some exceptional talent in this team, with two potential HOF kids and a future HOF Ruckman Those previous teams tended to get on a run based on talent and form IMO. I have always felt 1998 was the one that got away. That team was laced with talent and had a decent backline

As I was watching the replay of the game again today, I couldn't help but think what an oppertunity Brisbane let pass them by last year when they assumingly (along with many others) passed up the oppertunity to sign up T Mac and instead chased and got Joe Daniher. I suspect they would have got T Mac on a fraction of the coin and looking at the respective output of the pair, I know who I'd rather have. Watching Daniher again yesterday reinforced to me how atrocious his goal kicking really is and what an asset T Mac's is. Just take for example that shot that Daniher had where he tried to screw it round with a banana from 45m out on the boundary and ended up completely shanking it. Compare that to T Mac absolutely nailing his set shots under pressure week in, week out. These are momentum/game changing moments. So glad we got no bites for T Mac last season and he's still at the club, producing his career best form again.

The 'we need to fix our clearnces' posts are pretty depressing. Remind me if going to tbe footy in tbe 90s and fans yelling 'just kick it!!!!!'

There’s been a little bit of comment on the umpiring which, overall, I didn’t think was too bad. There will always be mistakes. But the decision that I really didn’t understand was McCarthey’s mark in the second when Hipwood blocked Lever from contesting the ball. Hipwood made no effort to contest the ball and deliberately positioned himself between Lever and the ball ensuring Lever couldn’t contest it. The commentators supported Hipwood. Am I right or wrong in thinking that should have been a free to Lever?

Demonland and ‘Melbourne Demons’ are not the same these days! ? Where is Saty and where are all the naysayers calling for Goodwin’s removal? It is as though you cannot post unless you have good news and it gets worse each week. I have to keep pinching myself that it is actually a MFC supporters forum. How about some negativity? It started fine at the beginning of the year with celebrity footy tipsters such as Melbourne Lord Mayor, Sally Capp, picking against her own city, predicting certain losses against GWS and Geelong but now we never start as the underdog and still manage to get across the line. (Adelaide was an apparition.) I am not used to wearing my scarf 7 days a week ?

I’ve been in the game day thread a lot this year and while it can get a bit negative I can’t say I’ve seen anyone say any of those lines once this year. I don’t like to get bogged down in negativity either but I don’t think people critiquing our performance during a game or venting their frustrations should be labelled bad fans or bad people.

Nah, it was real unfortunately. Bit of an abberation, however.

Have you not been checking the Sam Weideman thread?

Sounds like a question for the next AGM.

Was having this conversation with the old man yesterday and we were discussing the best Melbourne teams for the last 20 years in competing for the flag. I started supporting the dees back in 1998 and to this day think that year was the missed opportunity of a flag. More so then 2000 even though we played off in the grand final. In 1998 we had a great blend of experience and youth and our forward line imo was the best in the business. We had Lyon, Ox, Farmer, Neitz and Robertson who were incredibly hard to stop in the back end of 98. Our backline was solid enough with Shanahan and Ingerson. We had a champion ruckman in Jim Stynes who was happy playing second fiddle to a young Jeff White. Todd Viney was our elder statesman in the midfield surrounding by youth once again. Unfortunately the finals campaign back then really [censored] us over. We thumped Adelaide in the first week in the final and they go on to win the flag.. In 2000 we were a young team who copped a much fierce and combative Essendon, and looking back they completely bullied us. We weren't built with tough nuts except Ox and Neitz who would play the flag, but other then that it dropped right off. We had a great forward line, and our midfield was build on run and carry instead of contested. Our backline was still sound, but a bit like 2018 we leaked goals far too easily. I honestly thought after that year we were in for sustain success with the likes of Bruce, Green, Wheatland, Whelan and Powell who all came in and contributed straight away. 2018 was a bit like 2000. We timed our run perfectly towards the back end of the year but exposed once again for our immaturity and leaky defence. We looked amazing attacking teams and playing on our terms, but again lapse in games cost us (Geelong and St Kilda come to mind). Looking back, going I to the prelim with Oscar McDonald and Sam Frost alongside Joel Smith as your main pillars in defence was a recipe for disaster. Hence why we immediately targeted Steven May. Our forward line was pretty potent with Hogan and McDonald and our midfield was certainly right up as one of the best in the comp when on song, but it lacked maturity. Which brings me to 2021. I'm taking into account that we are only half way through the season and a lot can happen still. But stats will point us to being a serious flag contender. Our midfield and defence have been the absolute key pillars for me in being in the position that we find ourselves and I think come down to the team buy I defensive mindset and mantra. It's honestly the best defensive structure and backline I've ever seen in my time supporting the dees and certainly the most potent midfield as well. We are still tinkering with how our forward line looks, and I think that's probably what's been the biggest positive for me, is that we've won games where our forward line hasn't really hit its straps as we liked. For me our best forward structure is when Ben Brown is in there.

The best part of the Carlton v West Coast telecast has been the ads for Four N’ Twenty Pies.

Lets not also lose sight that we just played 2 of the top 4 teams in the last 2 weeks. The beauty of our forward line is not defined by a key position forward (Weid/Brown) but made up many different components. We have speed and finesse around stoppages (Kozzy, ANB, Spargo), endurance, workrate and contested marking (TMac, LG) and general footy smarts and skill (Fritsch). Throw in our other mids (Trac, Oliver) and you have a really diverse attacking profile which is really what you want. Having a single channel to goal through a KPF is handy but is not (and should not) be our 1 wood - it is just the cherry on top. So whilst i'd love Weid and Brown to kick a bag every week, it is easy to predict and counter. As long as they continue to take the 1st defender and ensure they play their role, im happy if they essentially neutralize the defensive threat so that our other offensive options can get to work.

the kid is 23. all this talk about moving him on before he has even matured is crazy. I am of the belief we should keep him in the team until B. Brown or M. Brown are knocking down the door so hard that it's impossible to ignore. and even before lock down, that wasn't happening, so just chill and let the kid play into form.

A little off-topic but this post reminded of the kick by Salem on the weekend, moments before Sparrow kicked his long goal. He was trapped at half back, looked up saw nothing but Lions jumpers but had nowhere else to go, so absolutely skied the ball giving us a chance to get numbers to the contest. We won it pushed forward and eventually scored. I thought it showed incredible IQ, but also humility - you don't have to aim for perfection. Sometimes a horrible looking kick can be the right kick.

1994-1995 should be in this list. Absolutely cruelled by injury in that era. All Australian's in each area of the ground (Lyon - Half Forward, Tingay - Wing, Neitz - Half Back). Schwarz performing at Wayne Carey levels. Jakovich having 10-11 shots on goal each week. Jim Stynes probably the best ruck in the competition. Prypke excelling at Full Back. Viney, and Lovett's in the guts. Massive missed opportunity.

Was with you til the last bit. That video was a classic during the dark times. Just satire, mate.

Also, watching the replay I think people may have judged Weid a little harshly. Much like the rest of the team (particularly the forward line) he was barely sighted in the first half, second half he was much more involved and took some good contested marks. His kicking wasn't great, but clunking some strong grabs might just give him a bit of a confidence boost. We can't wait for ever for everything to click, but maybe it isn't as far away as we might think.

I feel bad, I keep thinking Weids is older than he is. He's only 23 and I feel bad for hurling abuse at him, through the TV. Everyone is comparing him to Tom Hawkins. 2011 Hawkins was was 23 and kicked 27. The next year Hawkins kicked 62. I'm as impatient as the next bloke, give him 2 more years.

The bottom-line is that Weideman has kicked 3 goals from 4 outings, an average of 0.75 per game, and there’s a player on the team that kicked 5 goals from 3 outings or 1.66 per game, 120% more. That’s the difference between a 17 goal full season and 38 goal full season. We should absolutely keep Weideman on the list if he wants to stay, but mid way through the season we genuinely don’t know for sure whether BBB or Weideman are better for the side (I personally lean BBB based on those 5 goals but concede there’s uncertainty). Weideman has been given a good run. BBB needs another run while there’s still time, including time for Weideman to come back in if indeed BBB doesn’t deliver.

Not my question. Also Ed Langdon didn't play on Friday night.

My favourite moment from the match. Who wins the footy? The 4 stationary Lions blokes close to the ball? Wrong. The ginga ninja that’s about to flash through the screen. What a freak

The gist is that they are looking to extend the size of Goschs and the state govt is looking to make a contribution to the project. It doesn’t give much more detail than that.

Carlton's current injury list features: Cuningham, C Curnow, Durdin, Gibbons, Marchbank, OMac, McGovern, Philp and Plowman (suspended). Of those there are about three best 22 players: C Curnow, Marchbank and Plowman. West Coast's current injury list: Allen, Cameron, Duggan, Kelly, Kennedy, McGovern, Shuey, Venables, Winder, Witherden. That's 7 best 22 players and at least 5 of them are better than the three missing Carlton players. The talent missing from West Coast's side is incomparable to that missing from Carlton's. If it were Melbourne not Carlton, this board would be disgusted.

You can't have enough tough bastards to play in finals, it is a known fact they thrive in them. He is a bull who brings final type intensity to every contest. Absolute must.

Media going the full wazoo on Essendon last week - baby bombers mk 11 The Dees that knocked off ladder leading Bulldogs was younger than Ess as well.

It seems to me Weideman brings more pressure when the ball is on the deck and this what Brown can’t offer.

Given you've chosen Ham as your moniker it appears you are "A performer who overacts or exaggerates". If you are going to defend yourself by playing the old "it's all just opinions" card it's probably a good idea to be a bit more thick skinned. You need to realise that if you put forward an opinion that I or others don't agree with, then you are open to cross examination, probing and in some cases ridicule. Having said all that, some of your opinion (and lets face it there is a lot) has bits I might agree with. Problem is you lose credibility when you throw in all the stuff you have no evidence for and your opinion appears to be influenced by feelings in your nether regions. Feel free to provide an opinion on my post below but don't waste my time with juvenile BS. I'm in the camp that thinks Weid should be given more time in the Senior side. That's an opinion. My observation of his last 4 games lead me to think he is improving and importantly the non negotiables are being delivered (think "selflessness" "team defence", "positioning", "constant presentation"). That's an observation leading to an opinion. I don't believe kicking straight for goal or taking every mark as a one touch grab are "non negotiables". I would imagine there are certain KPI's that might need to be met regarding that however. That's a guess leading to an opinion. A number of posters believe Sam has been given too much time to improve based on his age or time on our list. You have blamed the MFC and the Coaches for failing to develop him properly. Weid has played 48 senior games, FACT. Last season he played 13 consecutive games (the greatest amount of consecutive games he has ever played by a considerable margin), from R6 to R18. Averaged 2 goals a game R6 to R14. FACT . All his other stats were reasonable for a key forward during this period. Opinion. He fell away badly in the final 4 games particularly in the Cairns games and I'm not going to try and guess why. That would be speculation. I think he has had a tougher path than most and has had struggles with injuries that have impacted his development, consistency and confidence. I would like to see him get at least another 4 or more consecutive games before doubting him. Opinion. Even then my opinion would be that the Coaches know what they are doing, more often than not, on the evidence to date.

To be fair Oscar and Frosty individually did good jobs in 2018. The issue in 2018, in my opinion, was that our defensive structure as a team lacked strength. We also lacked confidence in the team system, in that when we were challenged we didn’t need each player to try and be a match winner (attack the ball), but instead to trust their teammates and maintain their structure in our system. Sadly that became the blueprint to beat us for the 2 years after 2018, and the reason we all pulled our hair out screaming for some outside players. Now we are confident of the players behind the ball (without question Lever and May are massive upgrades here) which gives us confidence to maintain our shape at stoppages - so if we win we are set up to be much more dynamic. I used to only want Viney, Oliver and Petracca at every stoppage, but then get infuriated when they all fought for the same ball and dished out 1 metre handballs. Now we have a much better balance with Langdon, Jordan and Salem behind and outside the contest, and Oliver and Petracca doing much more work to get on the move away from the contest. For mine 2021 looks like a better ‘team’. I don’t feel like we are playing on emotion or a wave of confidence. The only team that’s beaten us beat our system by playing a very highly skilled game, but also with a very high risk/high reward game plan (take the game on down the middle with absolute precision foot skills). 9 times out of 10 that doesn’t work, but it was literally the only way they could beat us - and as such they played with the freedom of a team that didn’t have anything to lose. Full credit to Adelaide, but I don’t see it becoming the blueprint to defeat us like it was in 2018. In answer to your question - I’m all in on 2021 from what I’ve seen so far. Long way to go, but the sample is encouraging, and looks sustainable over the long run.

I think this is our best chance in my living memory 'dazzle'...I was too young when we won our last flag so I only really remember the names more than games...As a kid jumping on the train with a mate we headed all over Melbourne to the suburban grounds, even down to Sleepy Hollow. My early hero's were Hassa Mann, Stan Alves and Gary Hardeman. '87 was the sentimental team for me after all those years in the wilderness and then of course there was Robbie. This team is better balanced than any of the others you mention. It's time...

From so easy to score against to one of the best records since 2000.

thanks brett..........that really cheered me up

I can’t even post in game day anymore because I’m tired of every time the opposition scores they rant about how crap our team is. They won’t be happy unless we keep the opponent scoreless (which has never happened.) And if we lose (the perfect season, including finals, has never happened) I’m so tired of the “I’m over this club” and “that’s it for me. Sick of demons” and “I’m returning my membership.” FSS if that’s true, do it. Go be a fair weather supporter. Change your team each year depending on which team you follow. I think the culture of failure is so entrenched with some they accept it as inevitable and embrace the ridicule, like this Clown here.

Get stuffed Dermie!!!!By the way who pushes in the back more, a chiropractor or the Brisbane Lions.

no weirder than kicking around an inflated pigskin and making big bucks

The great initiative off the MFC had come to fruition.

I believe our 1990 team followed by the 1998 team were the best flag chances aside from this season. We just stuffed it up bad in the finals. That’s when we will be judged if the real deal or not.

Apologies if it has been mentioned already - but is anyone else still thinking about that amazing handball by Clarry that lead to Sparrow's goal in Q4? It was out on the wing after the ultra intelligent highball by Salem, because we only had ANB vs 4 Lions ahead, that allowed enough time for Clarry to swoop in and give an amazing handball to ANB (who also did an amazing job to halve the contest), who then released to Trac, and... it was all over after that. Just awesome. Awesome.

Looks like Rafael Nadal disputing a line call.

We definitely need a sack someone thread. Anyone keen for Jack Watts updates? I personally enjoyed his commentry on his career.

No because May can play on a small like Elliot or DeGoey.

The giant head of Maxy is the best one