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Melbourne last night. It's better than anything that can be Photoshopped. I'd like to see us use it in our marketing.

1. You have no evidence of this - it is pure speculation 2. This is garbage. Watts was given the clear message that he would be best finding another club. 3. Another garbage point with no basis at all in fact. You seem to confuse what comes out in the media as what happens at the coal face of the club. The club under Peter Jackson has very clear guidelines on how to manage player commmunication. Just because some some flea in the media or on social media makes a claim or a statement doesn't make it true. There are 1700 accredited AFL media. They are trying to earn a living and are scrapping for stories. They are largely irrelevant and i would prefer my club to manage players rather than focusing on external commentary.

You do exaggerate Saty! I was at training last Friday and observed them. I have a man's body and they look nothing like me.

whatever happens you can bet the pollyanna's will be out to remind us that it is not the end of the world. After round 23 can you ever be confident about this team. Perhaps that midfield is aging and slow ... we can but hope Frankly if you look at many of our upsets last year ... we kicked straight and they didn't ...let's hope Round 1 is a repeat

I might be in the minority, but I like a 'vanilla flavoured' President. He can do what needs to be done behind the scenes and let others, like PJ, Mahoney and Goody do the talking. He's done that well so far and worked really well with all areas of the club. We can't ask for much more than that.

I see one of the therapists who are contracted to the Dees (i've had multiple spinal operations and also require ongoing management) We always have a gasbag about the players, their aches and pains and some funny tales. Anyway, Hunt was in getting treated for general work around the hips and glutes etc and only mentioned literally at the very end of the treatment that he had a sore back. So the session was extended and the treatment took a different direction with some work on his back. With due respect to not advising the therapist, He/She didn't think it's a worrying sign, just a management thing.

Yes, it is speculation. But my speculation here is actually based on some evidence (i.e. 14 players approaching the AFLPA without first informing the coach or, alternatively, approaching the AFLPA with the coach's blessing). Certainly it seems to be accepted as fact that these players did approach the AFLPA. Beyond this, there is further evidence that we do not know, but to say there is no evidence is incorrect. That they approached the AFLPA at all in the circumstances is poor. In short, I think you would be better off asserting that the conclusion I have derived cannot be supported by the evidence that is available, rather than saying there is no evidence of such matters. I have heard various things to suggest there is evidence that is at odds with your claim of 'garbage' on these matters. Notwithstanding this, I will refrain from responding to your post in the tone you have adopted towards mine because, quite frankly, I try to not descend into pettiness with other posters. I come here for information and some discussion, not for friendships or juvenile arguments. Anyway - following a very disappointing end to last season, I was looking for a super professional and disciplined response from the club/player group, and this is not the sort of news that I had hoped to be reading at this point in the pre-season.

And just for the fun of it put Bernie onto Dangerfield

If we get thumped by Jeelong in Round 1 at home, it won’t just be Melbourne Supporters remembering. Players had better win early games...

And where exactly do we know that from? Seems to me that as usual speculation and rumour quickly become fact. In any case if they just went to the PA for information it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the players should gather as much information as they can before they discuss an issue with the coach if they feel the coach has made a very bad decision. How do we know that some players didn't tentatively raise it with the coach first, saw he was fixed in his position, still thought he was wrong and felt they had to argue again more forcefully? When we have one well-connected poster quoting a player saying how much disruption to his physical preparation last years' camp was, I think an exception to 'always do what the coast says' could be warranted. If a player lost that much conditioning by being out on the town instead of at a boot camp, posters here would be calling for blood. It is just possible the FD got it wrong and after seeing how seriously the players felt about it, the FD saw cancelling was the correct decision. An organization that works that way is far more resilient than one where such interactions are impossible and things fall apart completely after years of pent-up frustration.

I’ve never respected client/patient confidentially anyway. Thanks Port D!

As to the camp itself, I'm unsure as to whether it was beneficial and should have gone ahead or it's a waste of time and pointless. But the way in which things have played out is just no good from a PR perspective. The coaches look like they have (not saying they have) lost the players. The players look (not saying they are) self-entitled and like they know what is best despite choking this year and having achieved two-tenths of stuff all in their careers to date.

To ever get ahead in the AFL clubs need to diversify revenue streams to make more money. Especially small clubs wanting to grow. Pokies have been the backbone of this off field earnings but there isn't the same opportunity to expand there and (hopefully) over time that business model becomes less rewarding. So I've thought up a couple of ways for the club to branch out and make some money. 1. Demon Dinners - and other meals With more and more time pressure people are buying take away - especially now every restaurant delivers through delivery companies, prepared meals and even ingredient boxes to make gourmet meals. At the same time there's a lot of health conscious people as well and footy participation numbers have grown on the back of the increase in girls and women's football. Most games are Saturday and Sunday. Most people love take away or conveniently prepared meals on Friday or Saturday night. Put all those things together and there's surely a market for either Demons branded or AFL branded food. Imagine knowing your 15 year old son or daughter has a footy game on Sunday but it's Saturday night and you're going out for with adult friends. You could leave them money for pizza or you get them a dietitian approved and chef made meal (either prepared or delivered) with Nathan Jones or Daisy Pearce on the packaging. Apparently it was Goody who suggested Luke Hodge got on the lite n easy and Hodgey turned that in to an ad campaign, but people don't really want to buy diet food and advertise that to the world. Instead they get Demon Dinners that are formulated throughout the week to be nutritious enough to make you fit and healthy with some exercise (like a couple of footy trainings) and then you can market pre game and even post game meals. Presumably there's a way for the club to access the kitchens at the Leighoak and Bentleigh clubs if they want to start with local deliveries to the heartland suburbs maybe on Thurs-Sat. Or maybe approach a prepared meals company like Healthy Choice and say we want to make branded meals. The actual specifics of which way you want to do it are pretty endless but I'm certain there's a big gap in the market in selling meals to footballers, especially kids. Parents are spending big money on boots, gear, travel, extra coaching and academies. They already have to feed their kids and are spending big money doing that how it is. There should be an opening to get in on that. 2. A one of a kind experience viral marketing raffle. Everyone buys club raffle tickets from time to time right? I know the club volunteers get on the phones or on match days and do their best to sell them. I also know the club are generous to big donors or sponsors with behind the scenes and match day experiences. But why not combine all of that in one go? I first learnt about how a company in America combines viral marketing and experiences for charitable causes here: https://www.theringer.com/tech/2017/10/25/16528024/omaze-online-charity-rick-and-morty And an example of an experience here: https://www.omaze.com/experiences/south-park-matt-trey-notms Pretty much, the club create the biggest and best match day experience and make the biggest and best viral marketing video they can make. They already have the ability to do that. Get Hamish Blake, Robbo and Clayton Oliver to sit down and make a funny video, can't be that hard right? And prepare the ultimate fan experience - training with the boys, coffee with Goody, lunch with the team, match committee, game day room pass, kids run out with the team, even sing the song if they win, flights and hotels paid for, just get it all in there. Make it too good for fans to refuse. Then sell tickets 100 for $10, 250 for $25 and escalating like that, with members getting a bonus 10-50% of tickets, however you want to do it, add merchandise with a number of tickets bought. Is anyone not buying $10 worth for the chance of a lifetime?

Posted this in the Training Thread but also relevant here: Viney is super human!! If his foot is ready there will be no stopping him next year.

And we have lived up to them beautifully.

If I was them, I would be more worried about lining up against Oliver, Viney and Petracca with Gawn in the ruck... ...and how is their depleted defence going to cope with Hogan, Tommy Mac and Jeffy... plus a lacklustre forward line that relies on Hawkins. I think we've got them covered

The players did go back to the coach and two days later the coach said the camp was still on with some modifications from last year, such as a doctor being there who might be able to deal with Tysons dislocated knee cap. Some players weren't happy and spoke to the Aflpa. Their main issues were, one deconditioning, some players lost 5kgs over that 3 days, abuse and risk of injury. The majority of players saw no advantage in the camp at all which was proven late in the season. Maybe the players were right to protect themselves against a FD that might be wrong. Maybe we should congratulate them for standing up??

Figjam/Flopper/Weirdo.

Even if the players did approach the AFLPA - and there is no evidence they did it before going to the club - this in itself is not unusual. Maybe they were seeking information about what other clubs were doing, what was the norm, what their responsibilities were for things that are outside their playing contract or what would happen if they were injured and unable to play? The point is we don't know and it just doesn't make sense to listen to media speculation on it. And in the spirit of Christmas, compliments of the season to you Ron.

Not to mention losing Gawn early and someone else I forget.

Yes it was Salem's fault, that was the whole idea of the camp, he failed under pressure, let me think, does that happen in games?

Yes, and if we had done the bootcamp and lost the first round, no doubt supporters would be blaming the bootcamp for taking too much out of the players. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

We'll be the underdogs - it's a good thing

and I saw someone comment earlier that it wasn't Goodwin's fault that Salem didn't pack his pack correctly.... I'm sorry if they were sleep deprived, being screamed at and going out on a hike with bricks in their packs.... the responsibility of running the camp lies with the the club. I see that as a workplace injury.

Well those photos make me feel better. Jack Viney for round 1!

And our Geelong loss was we didn't kick straight and they did.

Dr Turf is by far the best SEN presenter. Either way, my life is so much better since I stopped listening to SEN.

It was probably more boring than I expected. And I didn't expect much.

Getting screamed at while sleep deprived and doing super intense physical work isn't everyone's cup of tea

I doubt it, we have a vanilla flavoured Pres.

I reckon a lot of the posters that are angry now are the same posters that were saying the camp was a waste of time last year, hypocrites worst people in the world.

I look back at some of the things Bomber Thompson tried and then said when the Cats became a dominant team. I think it went along the lines " I stepped back once the Leadership Group started leading, they drove the standards they set the agenda". This is not the non leaders group from years ago. I have no problem with them stepping up and saying "No" to something they don't agree with. The proof will be in how much they "drive" the season. If Goodwin has a Messiah complex he will fail, if the "players" drive the season it will be a great thing IMHO. I cannot fathom how the current player group has not got the drive to go all the way and on that basis if they have said no to something, I think they need to be supported.

Hutchy may have business acumen, but if anyone has listened to his inane banter with Liam Pickering, on their Saturday morning show; "Off the Bench", you would know that Marko and Ox are oracles in comparison.

Twitter is great for following live sport or getting up to date news if you're a sport's lover. I also follow a heap of Dees fans & have some great chats about the club. I actually find Twitter the best form of social media as i don't have to look at pictures of people's food or babies.

And the leader of the free world

Smoke this, that is what got essendon is trouble, that is what got Russia in trouble take these jabbs I'm your coach I know what's best for you they don't always

Maybe a bit of spin the bottle too, eh Biff? Good to see you are back after your drug rehab stint. Any other celebs in there?

I cringe when thinking of Hunt missing a game or any game in fact . Love the way he plays and breaks the lines. Potential All Australian very soon. Go Boy!

Im sorry but I just think a group of players running to the AFLPA behind the coach's back is just wrong. At least have the guts to front the coach. Do you reckon they would have done it if Roosy was there? Yeah ok so there were 2 injuries last year, but out of how many players attended? Its not the coach's fault Salem didn't pack his backpack correctly. accidents happen. I mean if the players cop an injury on the field next year are they going to say no Im not going back out onto the field. No I wouldn't have thought so. What have these players done to have this right to decide on what they want to do? Nothing. This camp was to also teach you about discipline and respect and also about team bonding. Something we don't appear to be right now. Its to put you out of your comfort zone. Could you imagine the hawks players a few years ago and saying to Clarko we don't want to do Kokoda. No they did it. Craig Bellamy made the whole storm squad one year walk from AAMI park to the 100 steps in the hills. Its about mixing things up. I would have liked to see our 2 captains stand up and back the coach and say no we are going to do this. So obviously they don't get listened to either. If this was another team we would be laughing at them. But no, its our team and we were the laughing stock after r23 and here we are again. Im just frustrated with this team sometimes.

This thread is full of double standards. I seem to recall there was a lot of criticism of another club's players a few years ago for not speaking to the AFLPA or their managers when there were concerns about a particular course of action taken by that club. Would we be concerned if our players willingly complied with an apparently dodgy supplements program by implicitly trusting everything told to them by a football department and a suspect "sports scientist"? Or would we say those players thought they were "bigger than the club"?

now you mention it. i remember that too. i remember also placing it in the circular filing receptacle - lol

Thanks. It looks like there was a mailout so my comments about members not being advised are off the mark but it appears that not all members received the letter etc. Perhaps it is just a record keeping thing.

Both my missus and I recieved the AGM meeting letter and the proxy voter form in the mail about a month ago. I dont remember getting anything electronic at all though...

What a load of tripe. PA closer to the flag than us? Clearly he failed geography at Brighton. There is a brand new one hanging up at Punt Road. That's only walking distance from us, whereas PA would have to get on a plane AND hire a taxi to be near it. Jack seems like a nice lad, but I don't think he is too bright.

Omac is a 21yr old key defender being built from the ground up both physically and skill wise I still expect some look away moments this season, but he is certainly not the liability to the team that some make him out to be

This sounds like a headline directly out of the Betoota Advocate. Footy Player Says New Club Better Than Old Club That Spurned Him.

Oscar is underrated. Doesn't deserve most of the flak he cops on here. Of course he has some areas to improve, hes a 21 year old key back after all. The Big O is coming along nicely.

This is an interesting public statement by Jack Watts. In this morning's Adelaide Advertiser, to appease the Port supporters for press coverage, no doubt - which happens a great deal in Adelaide - Jack Watts' comments about Port being closer to a Premiership than Melbourne are back-page news (sports headlines). The article does not have much depth; however, it is fairly lengthy for items of this nature. Maybe, it is an attempt at controversy and/or incestuous local grandstanding. That Watts has fallen for this type of coverage is alarming for the mild-mannered, temperate opinions and feelings that he has expressed in the past in a 'red n blue' clown suit. I have been one of his most ardent supporters over the years and have seen him do things on the footy field that truly cut the mustard. At least he does not brag on this record nor does he make promises that 'he is going to be the difference' for the Port Adelaide side. He instead retains some modesty and draws upon the skills and reliability of some of the existing Port players (in the forward line where he will be utilised), and then refers to Port's 'strengthening' of an already impressive team that has just come forward via its 2017 draft recruitment outcomes. I really don't have an opinion on all of this but I thought it might be of interest to Demonland readers.

In 4 years time it will be interesting to see how many games, goals and success Watts has had in comparison to Fristck not massively interesting, just a little bit