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I sit half a world away from the Melbourne Football Club but regularly exchange emails with a mate of mine that is much closer to the club. The latest mail says that Hogan is no chance to leave the club at this stage or in the foreseeable future. Watts is a different story. Discussion on a possible trade will only be entertained if we get value for him. Currently, MFC would prefer to keep him on the list and see how he responds. MFC will look to get in Lever plus a 23-25yo mid to build the list for a real tilt at the flag over the next 4-5 years. Take this in any way you wish and keep in mind this is a trade rumours board and that is exactly what this is, a rumour.

I would love GC to play super hard ball and flat out refuse to trade unless they get what they want. I reckon Ablett has treated GC appallingly. He demanded a 3 year contract, front ended no less, and one year in wants to go home. Doesn't get his way and then picks and chooses when he will play. What sort of rubbish is that from a player brought to the club to show leadership. At a time when they desperately needed leadership the great GA only deigned to play home games. Rocket must hate him. I have lost a lot of respect for him. Even more so since his supposed threat to retire should he not get what he wants. I hope GC call his bluff. They would be doing the rest of the competition a big favour not gifting Geelong another A grade, brownlow medal winning mid fielder. Their reward would be repsect form the rest of the comp and their player and 2 easier games a year when they meet the Cats. [censored] him

To be fair, they can all run and carry.

We'll have Ollie Wines please

I remember the days when mixed metaphors were as rare as hen's teeth and posters needed to be as hard as a cat's head to withstand criticism for using them.

It's finally happening. The Toump is returning.

I'm open to trading, Watts. But..

Waldron just said on sen that Watts is definitely gone and a Hogan trade is still a possibility and would be in the best interests for both parties. Geez a forward line without watts and hogan would be interesting and by interesting I mean crap

Jay Clark is apparently saying we are offering $750,000 over 5 years which is probably more close to the mark.

Way too much. If true, we should look elsewhere.

He's shithouse.

Both Watts and Hogan will be playing for the MFC next year. All this talk is bulltish.

Rubbish. Waldron is a moron.

Still another how many months to the start of next season for us and it can't come quick enough. I think some of the stuff posted this off season is more ridiculous than anything I've seen, we made more sense when we had a common enemy...CS, Neeld, Pendergast etc. Where we finished this season is not because Jones was captain or Misson in charge of fitness. It's not leadership, or in the head. Previous drafting has been a problem but that's been done to death, we know that and it's in the process of being rectified. That's why we've had to recruit form outside, not ideal but thats the best we can do. This group will grow together and so will the leadership and experience. We're not trading big Max, Hogan is not on the trade table... We got close but weren't good enough this year, pretty simple really. Disappointing, yes but that's how it is. Some of our future gun players, the ones that win games were either not on the ground (Hogan) or still a bit up and down and learning the caper (Petracca).. Our defence needed bolstering (Lever)... We really missed Jones for those weeks he was out despite what those who seem to want to create another reality think and of course Viney was missed. Like it or not we are a young team, I know we hate to hear it but that's what we are. Our 'A' graders and elite talents are not there yet, they will be. When they reach that level and we start losing games we should win then I will agree we have leadership issues and head problems but we're not there yet. Fire away...I know this is not a popular view. It's easier to throw rocks than accept the reality.

So far this year he's said (in no particular order): Casboult to the Tigs Kelly to Nth Cox to Brissy Lever to Pies Ablett to retire rather than try to get back to Geelong All of these he has said will definitely happen. Maybe he'll get one right one day, but his track record says otherwise.

None of them are held accountable really, it's why they can continue to spout shite and get away with it. People forget quickly.

waldron should stick to his area of expertise - brown paper bags

I think some convenient reporting is happening to create headlines and stories. From my reading the sequence has been: circa $300k was reportedly Crows opening offer early in 2017 - probably their 'strict formula' for a 3rd year player. Who knows if it increased during early negotiations. He put off talks to see what the CBA looked like. In the meantime other clubs came in, with WB reportedly set to offer $800-850k. CBA done and clubs were given a $2m sal cap windfall to spread around. I recall reading the Crows then offered $600-$650K. CBA done but now Lever decides to wait till the end of the season. Lever made the AA squad after the Crows' reported offer of $600-$650k. At some stage MFC joined in. The figure I saw reported a few weeks ago in The Age was MFC's offer of$750k+. With the AA gong it makes sense the Crows would revisit their offer. So do the Crows need to pay >$900k Warner says MFC have offered? (btw Warner's doesn't have a good track record for accuracy, headlines are more his thing). Conventional wisdom is that players will stay at a club for less than other offers. I guess it depends how much he wants to get back to Vic. Nonetheless, I doubt the Crows will let him go without another try to keep him. Sorry response is a bit lengthy but thought I would use your question to summarise happenings, as per my interpretation of events and reports.

I can't wait to see who we're going to blame all our problems on next year.

I will live with any deal or any trade period as long as we are addressing needs. In the absence of more details, this only exacerbates a need.

I'd be very [censored] if we traded Watts. I'd be even more [censored] if we traded him to a team with decent kicking skills and we had to watch him kicking multiple bags next year.

Thank you for bringing some sanity back to this thread....

He's that smart he doesn't let himself get caught in positions where has has to wrestle with a gorilla one-out. I watched him closely in the GWS first final. A GWS player has the ball at half back and is kicking long down the line to a contest on the wing. Lever has Rory Lobb, who he gives 3-4 inches away to. As the ball left the boot, Lever bumped into Lobb and put him off his line. Lobb didn't even make the drop of the ball. Later in the night, when Patton wanted the ball put on his head in the pocket, Lever stood 5 meters in front of Patton and just blocked his leading space. If the GWS player kicked it high onto Patton's head, Lever backed himself to get back in time and fly for the spoil. Wrestling is not his go. Playing smart is. Oscar and Frost are still crucial to play on the Daniher, Riewoldt, Brown types, with Lever taking a less dangerous forward and zoning off for the most part. And when it is Lever's turn to mind a Ben Brown, he'll certainly play it shrewdly.

Again, in regard to the injury point of discussion, it is a really ignorant thing to deem its impact a “furphy”. We really suffered the curse of injury this season and it didn’t impact us only in the fact that it hit some of our most important players in Gawn, Hogan, Jones, Viney, etc., but it also affected our consistency. It should be no surprise Richmond was one of the top teams and is in the grand final given their almost non-existent injury list throughout the entirety of the season. Having a consistent team and settled side is such a pivotal factor in having success and that is something we simply did not have all year. We were constantly having to make changes and adapt to new team structures due to injuries to key position players and a lot of them were long-term injuries. I mean, honestly, who would have thought we would be playing Tom McDonald forward and Pederson in the ruck for a large portion of the season? Simon Goodwin certainly wouldn’t have. In what has been a truly testing and challenging season for Goodwin in his first year as coach, I think he has done an unbelievable job. If this were Roosy, I don’t think anyone would be half as sceptical. Of course, there are flaws and our season was marred by unacceptable losses – but most teams have them and in a young and developing side, they happen more frequently. If you think otherwise, you had unrealistic expectations on what we should have achieved this year. I had twelve wins as the target mark for the season to be a pass and we achieved that. We only narrowly missed out on finals and it hurt A LOT, but that is how it is. I don’t have a loser attitude, I just have a realistic one – we were never ready to do serious damage in finals and while it would have been better to just make it an experience it, it wasn’t to be. If we go backwards next year, that is when question marks will be raised; but for now, I think we are okay. Goody is learning, but I think he has what it takes to lead the boys to a premiership.

Just Josh Kellythen no more. Id like Grinter to mentor Jack Watts throughout the pre season.

We rarely see eye to eye Bub, and we're at it again. The injury front is not a furphy at all, it's fact. Look at Sydney's start, they had a number of their better players out, and the lost every game. Look what happened when they got those players back. We're not talking about injuries to the likes of Kent, Tim Smith, Joel Smith. We're talking Gawn, Viney, Hogan, Jones. How you can't see that these injuries cost us games is beyond me. And as I've mentioned in a previous post, it's not only the injuries, it's when they occur. We played a half of footy against Richmond with 18 fit blokes. You can't replace them mid-game. This impacts structures, rotations. We were in front at 3/4 time in this game - we were always going to run out of puff. Similar story with the Geelong game. By claiming "many of these games were there for the winning", yes, that's a fact, the game was still being played and we still had a team competing against another team. But there are so many other elements attached to that which you are clearly dismissing.

When I first read it, I thought it said "fiscally"

It's a really good question. What makes a good or great captain? I am a big fan of Tex Walker as a player but I wouldn't know how he verbally lifts his players as a captain or what goes on behind the scenes. He's been voted best captain by his peers for 2 years in a row and I can only go by what I see when he plays. For me it's as simple as a pack busting mark or a long bomb from 50 when the team needs it, similar to David Neitz. Half way through the season someone posted a video of Jones talking about how he knocked back offers from other clubs whilst our club was at its lowest ebb. He wanted to stay in the hope one day HIS footy club would rise from the ashes and it's almost there. That for me is leadership enough and I will be comfortable with any decision Jones makes about his role. He busted his ass for years at the bottom of packs with no support what so ever. There have been many captains of clubs where for sheer skill wouldn't be in the teams top 10. Come to think of it, I couldn't care less now if he had a sook or not about sharing the captaincy.

haha the Dees under salary cap pressure? due to all of our stars we have in their prime? we've only ever had pressure to reach 92%. 4-5 years time will be different but there is no way we need to off load anyone to pay Lever's wages

I would think the Dees favourites in Viney, Oliver and Jetta put that myth to bed

HTF would trading Hogan be in the best interest of both parties?

Can't stand that number 7 chap myself. The boy is just too rough. My real view is that I don't like faux-tough players. I really struggled to warm to Lynden Dunn for that reason. I'd have put Bugg in the same basket until I read his article the other week. I absolutely love 'proper' tough players like Viney. That also includes players that don't look or act tough, but play in a hard manner; I'd include Jayden Hunt in that group.

Especially when the cap goes up a couple million over night October 30...

It's not a furphy at all. Especially when you consider "in-game" injuries which can legitimately be seen to have cost us wins against Cats & Tigers. Especially when you cop injuries to key playmakers (Gawn, Hogan, Viney, Watts, Jones). This doesn't excuse the 22 who do suit up but it provides a reason why things may not have gone our way. Compare ours to the injury list the Tigers had this year. We had poor showings against North (x2) Pies etc but also had great showings against Saints, Adelaide, WCE & Dogs. It's not all doom and gloom, we are a young team with a rookie coach on the rise and I legitimately think we are very close to it all coming together. The final step to being a very good team is probably the hardest but if the coach and players have faith in themselves and the desire/application to carry it out we have the structures in place to ensure it happens.

Ireland had a referendum, but they had to as it required constitutional change. The result was 62-38%. (They also voted on another referendum question at the same time where they rejected reducing the age of eligibility for President.) Other countries have changed their law by a parliamentary vote without any public referendum, plebiscite or survey. We're the only stupid ones in the world.

By the by this is the worst rumour thread i in my time on DL. Sheesh. Maybe the club isn't leaking enough. Come back GNF. Give us something!

I don't think this thread is about "making a call on Goodwin" but rather constructive commentary on the performance of the coaching staff (which Goodwin leads) during the 2017 season. There is little doubt that he did not get the best out of many players this year. Was it his fault .... probably not. Could he have improved in some areas...Undoubtedly. Finals in 2018 is a must with a top 4 finish as the stretch goal.

I wouldn't be giving Viney the sole captaincy until they can prove his foot is 100%.

I think you summed it up in the first line. In previous years at this time, the most exciting period for the club was about to start. Now, instead of salivating over the trade period and draft time, we've got our priorities in order and again realise that the best time of the year is late March to late September, not the other way around.

Have to say I absolutely trusted Goodwin's judgement on Melksham. He got this right. Melksham, like Vince and Hibberd, has absolutely delivered for a second round draft pick. He kicked some really important goals this year and played some very effective shut down roles. A genuinely good Demon.

I'm so bored with this already. surely we are not dumb enough to pay him 800-900k...

Druids don't carry swords... ffs ha ha ?

'Perceived pressure'

I remember Scarlett getting 3-4 votes when he won the BnF for Geelong (pretty sure this is right) The Brownlow is a joke. Umpires clearly don't understand the game. Buddy/Carey can't win one but Priddis/Woewodin do?

You watch GAJ get back to his most damaging best next year at Geelong. Nothing surer. Unless of course Viney shitmixes his shoulder again for him.

My understanding is clubs cannot trade money or "salary cap space". Why getting a player back to GCS from Geelong is so important is it can act as a proxy for this. Say GCS get Lang. And to compensate for the front loading that has already happened - which is effectively a prepayment to Ablett - Geelong still pay all of Lang's $300k salary. Paying portions of a former player's salary is allowed. This means GCS basically get financial compensation by not paying Lang, and salary cap relief by not having that salary count against their cap so they can prepay or front load some other players in 2018. Then Geelong could recoup some of that money by paying Ablett less than he is really worth - because Ablett is the one who effectively already taken money early for services he was meant to provide in 2018. It's convoluted but is the only way to effectively move financial compensation around as part of a trade.

Oliver - 9 early first round picks

While I would agree that leadership on the field has been a struggle this year, i wouldn't say that I would include Jones as part of the problem. He single handedly pulled us over the line in a couple of games this year and we missed him as a player and leader when he was out of the team.

Is this Deeluded? We have not been a soft team since 2015. The last two years have shown that you can alter your hardness at the ball and the man if you prioritise that. Those that think we 'have to get rid of players that were around in the soft old days' are misguided. Watts turned the corner in 2016 only to regress. Jones doesn't need to go anywhere. When posters write that they are referring to their own psychosis about those years - the desire for players being moved on is an attempt to remove that well of doubt about the current progress being real or not. I don't worry that the team will regress to irrelevance.

I don't see the value in trading Watts frankly. To other clubs he's probably only worth a second round, but to us he's class and poise when we need it. He was having a good year until he got injured but yes his comeback from injury was disappointing. I still say we hold on to him. Only a really good offer from another club and Watts saying to us, yes I'd like to have a go elsewhere would change my mind.