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Bob I am surprised that you would think that. Essendon are involved in the biggest scandal ever in the history of the AFL/VFL. They have compounded it with their attacks on the AFL. They have taken the AFL to Court. Adelaide were involved in salary cap cheating. We conducted an activity that several other clubs also were involved in and both the AFL and our lawyers, agreed there was no evidence to find charges proved. We saved the AFL face and agreed to plead to a nothing charge. We also saved further investigations into all those other clubs by not going to Court and having them brought up. I don't think the Crows or Bombers in any way would be concerned with our penalty, as it was irrelevant to their crimes. Spitting chips, I hardly think so. PS. Hird is railing against being suspended for 12 months and says he would cop no more than 6 months for his failures and his actions since, against the AFL including personal attacks. Wonder how CC feels about his 12 months suspension.

Can we abstain? I can't bear another week.

I don't know how many times this has to be covered titan, but you are completely wrong! Under WADA code, onus is on Essendon to conclusively prove they didn't and refute the sufficient circumstantial evidence. Essendon can't say that 'the dog ate my database' and get away with it. At the moment that's why they're being charged with Governance, because they are hiding the juicy stuff.

Lynden Dunn, Matty Bate and Juice Newton, now that was a draft.

He was. He's not the problem with this list.

I'm sure the AFL are doing everything in their power to ensure the players get off. Their own self interest is paramount in all of this because they want Essendon in the competition in 2014 and beyond in order to meet theit TV rights and sponsor obligations. However, Clause 62, 67 & 68 of the "Notice of Charges" should be a sticking point. (62) On January 18 2012 the Essendon FC was charged by Como for 7 vials of Hexarelin and 26 vials of Thymosin at a total cost of $9,860. (67) On 8 February 2012, at a meeting with players at the Club, Dank introduced four substance that were purportedly approved for use in accordance with the Protocol: namely AOD-9604, Thymosin, Colostrum and Tribulus. (68) Following that meeting 38 players signed "Patient Information Informed Consent" forms in relation to these four substances. In relation to these substnces 38 players agreed to. (a) one AOD-9604 injection per week for the season (b) one Thymosin injection per week for six weeks and then once per month © two Colostrum daily and (d) one Tribulus Forte daily If the dosages on the "Patient Info Form" were administered the playing group would receive more than 1,500 injections of AOD-9694 and Thymosin. In my lay opinion, unless Essendon can produce the vials unopened the onus of proof should be with Essendon and the players to prove that they were not injected with these banned or "not approved for human use" substances. If there is no documented information to support their assertions then infraction notices should be given to players. It seems pretty clear to me that these 38 players did receive some or all of these substances as per their signed "Patient Consent/Info" form.

Why do you say ADavey is being forced? He should be but that is another story. What? Do you think they should play for life even though they are playing below grade football? Bruce wasn't traded. He chose to leave. And for less money. He wanted two years we offered him one. Did nothing at Hawthorn and could not play out two years. Good decision Melbourne. Bruce trashed his own club legacy. Junior. everyone agrees it was a bad decision. Trapper. Good decision. How could you argue it wasn't? Did nothing at Brisbane. And loyalty? Give me a break. Hardly a legend of the club. Robbo Yze and White as Danihers love children played many more games than they were entitled to on form. And you think we should have kept them on?? Not sure at this point what you are smoking. Woey was unfortunate but he was also our highest paid player at $500k a year thanks to Freo trying to poach him in 2001. Did not deserve to be the highest paid by a long way. Did very well out of melbourne. And finally Beemer. Boofy low IQ bloke who loved the club but refused to follow coach's instructions. Made his own bed. Not sure what your point is? That winning a BnF gives you a pension for life? What about the fact our BnF winnners played shiite football after winning the accolade. Not all but certainly Beemer, Bruce, Green, Travis and Davey..

This thread is pathetic. Dunn will be top five in our B&F this year. Against Adelaide Dunn had our most disposals (24 at 79% efficiency) and our most Supercoach points (129, 31 more than our next highest in Toumpas). The left foot pass was a bad error, but we made hundreds of mistakes over the course of the game. Dunn is no world beater and we need to find better players in coming drafts, but he is clearly in our best side at the moment and is playing his role.

Having re-watched the first half Toumpas had 10 handballs, 8 which were clearly effective freeing a man into space. He handballed once under pressure to Trengove which resulted in no turnover and a 50/50 he pushed out to Garland which we took the ball away from the play. He had 3 kicks all were moving the ball forward. None were direct clangers as all went to 50/50's but one was taken away from the contest for a score for Adelaide (4 possessions in the chain later). Outside of his possessions he got caught taking the game on in the first half which cost us a goal. So he had 13 touches in the first half 8 that clearly put us in a more attacking position, 4 that had no direct negative impact and one which cost a goal 4 possessions later in a scoring chain. He was clearly our most effective player in the first half and these so called possessions selling others into trouble and his slow decision making seem to be figments of peoples imagination. Will have a look at the second half when I get a chance.

Interesting when Bomber Thompson asked Eddie tonight what is the biggest fine from AFL he said $250k. Blues copped $930k and we copped $500k for getting off the main charge and Crows got $300k. Media is saying poor Hird looking at 12 months, yet CC got 12 months and he put no one 's health at risk and no drugs were involved.

It has been made quite clear that it is entirely the athlete's responsibility to ensure they do not take banned substances. But Essendon players couldn't independently verify that the supplements the club wanted to give them were legal under WADA because they weren't allowed to talk to anyone about them. The only option open to them was to entirely refuse to be part of the program. And Hird wonders what the problem is? Really I have a huge amount of sympathy for the Essendon players in this saga and that is in inverse proportion to Essendon management.

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When we talk about innocent AFL players, I wonder how we contrast that with 14-16 year old chinese swimmers, who are given supplements by their team doctors. These kids, mainly girls, are taught not to question authority. They don't answer back or speak up. They are different to properly AFL instructed AFL players, who are 18 and older and asked to have multiple injections, of varying substances, in the stomach. We have no hesitation in labelling the chinese swimmers as cheats, for doing as they were told by their officials. Double standards anyone?

"Celebrating 50 years without a premiership"

Surely, you can't lose draft picks for telling bad jokes?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/play-it-straight-and-take-the-medicine/story-fni0fhh1-1226703731898 This is excellent.

That's not a new revelation, and Lynden is far from being Robinson Crusoe. Compared to many of his team mates he has had a solid year,

He wasn't under a lot of pressure when he kicked and that's what was dumb, he should have gone on his natural foot. It's not just Lyden but is a signature of a lot of our players, they don't do the professional things consistently to be good players in a good team. He's been the least of our problems though and has put in a lot more than many others in the team it's just the little things that matter. It's not just our poor midfield, it's all over the ground. Bring in a couple of good mids and this sort of stuff doesn't change unless the mindset of the group does. For all the Neeld mantra we still have a team of semi professionals playing in a professional competition.

At this point, I'd be happy if we won more than 4 games in a season.

I appreciate our deficiencies in the midfield and that we need to focus on that area in the coming trade/free agency and draft period (as well as at least one dangerous crumbing forward) but to me the crux of the matter will be our new head coach and our new midfield coach. The organisation and structure of our midfield is appalling at the moment and new personnel and a fresh approach to the way our midfield functions will make an enormous difference not only to this vital area, but to the performance of the entire team. I know its obvious but that view has been reinforced in my mind by watching most of the other teams in the competition. I think we can make up a fair bit of ground in this area with the right coaching and direction.

"we train really well"

MELBOURE FOOTBALL CLUB...If it was a dog, you'd shoot it.

How about we get a good experienced coach, get him to get some bright assistant coaches and build them up to be seen as future head coaches, and then pick one of them at some point in the future should they be seen as the best options? Or we could just name some bloke to take over after 3 years or something stupid like that. Whatever.

"Bottom 4 or bust" "Where talent comes to die" "Early draft pick refuse centre" "D-E-V-E-L-O-P-M-E-N#%^!\^ .... No we can't even spell it!" "Where pulling the plug is more humane" "The answer is blowin in the wind" "At least the training is elite" "Bermuda Triangle Midfield" "Where the win is players arriving on time" "A scoreboard free club" "Competitive... Yeah...Na" "Free to a good home" "Club seeks loyal supporter. If you like walks on the beach at sunset or fine wine by an open fireplace KEEP LOOKING. Must be non-smoker (landlord rules). Must be a heavy drinker and into self loathing. Masochism is a must because let's be honest pain is your friend. Must be generous with money, love and attention and expect nothing in return. I guarantee to train elite, be selective with effort and over pay underachievers. In the end all you need is love." "We proved J curves don't exist"

I have absolute respect for anyone who watches a replay of any Melbourne game from 2013. Nice work BRFE!

Don't know if anyone knows but Billy was selected in the level 2 AIS team earlier this month. Hearing good things about Billy! Also there is a kid by the name of Harry Viney who plays for North Adelaide under 18s and bit of a goal kicking forward? The son of Jay Viney but haven't heard much else..

All that waffle, and the last sentence is all anyone needs to read to know how much credit to give you on this topic. Woeful statement.

Some of those listed as forced retirement need an asterisk. * Time called appropriately/marginally too late. Unfortunately, not many players get to purely hang up their boots entirely of their own volition.

Nice work Theo.

Then the stats have fooled you. He's good in a one on one because he's often playing on small forwards who he has a height advantage on or the worst talls when Frawley/McDonald etc take the good ones. Not to mention he gets burnt on the lead or lost in traffic which doesn't go against him for that stat.

Isolating one stat is the worst thing you could do to try and make a point and that stat definitely doesn't mean that Dunn is a good footballer. Without even glancing at this pointless stat, people have already said his strength in one-on-one contests is the only thing he's got going. How about looking at what the stats don't say or show? They're the one's that speak the loudest.

Agreed. His lack of leadership qualities is startling, exacerbated by his ridiculous habit of always telling the better defenders what to do and where to run, pointing mindlessly at opposition players or space, whilst himself either ambling around, or doing his job of manning up the fourth-best forward who is shorter than he is.

OMG! Isolating this incident in the bigger picture of no Melbourne player having provided a shepherd virtually over the whole season , is laughable

Go back and watch the replay of the Adelaide game and get off Dunn's back. Yes he made a stupid decision to kick across his body to Nathan Jones when he should have handballed and yes he gave away a dumb free kick with a love tap. But he also kicked about four 60m balls bang on the money and I'd like to see stats on metres gained by players in the past month - I reckon he'd be No.1 at Melbourne. Jimmy T was very good on Sunday but made a huge howler in the middle. Nathan Jones, who was heavily marked again, went sideways 70 per cent of the time and also had no awareness when Danger laid a tackle on him in the middle of the park and the ensuing goal effectively cost us the game. I am not a Dunn fan and long term I don't see him surviving once we have a better options. But at the moment he's one of our few linebreakers because so many of our players go sideways or backwards to retain possession. And because he's actually kicking it forward he'll be more prone to turnovers but his stats in past few weeks have shown his efficiency has been quite high. One of our big problems is that we don't have a pacey running small defender of the Jarrod Harbrow, Heath Shaw, Andrew Walker ilk to run through the lines. Until we do, then we need a linebreaker and I'm afraid Dunny's big boot is one of our few options.

England only have themselves to blame for running out of time. They dawdled all morning with no intent on a result. If it wasn't for Clarke, they wouldn't have been that close. Don't blame the umpires, have a look at yourselves, I'd say. Clarke did the right thing, IMO. 4-0 compared to 3-0 is no difference, but he created buzz and could have won us the Test. Turns out our bowling was crap in the evening (Starc and Faulkner the biggest culprits I think) which gave up too many hittable deliveries, but we still took 6 wickets, 10 for the day. In the end, of the five Tests we were in a winning position in three of them (Old Trafford, Chester-le-Street, The Oval), and could easily have won two of them (Old Trafford, where the rain thwarted us, and Chester-le-Street, where we should have been able to chase that score down). We didn't deserve to be as close as we were at Trent Bridge, but we could have won that too if little things had gone our way (e.g. Haddin not being given out on that evidence). We were clearly outplayed at Lord's, but in the end I think it was much more competitive than the scoreline suggests, and it gives us hope for the return series. Mind you, if Harris goes down it's game over.

The problem appears to be that there is too much doubt over who took what, and what was taken, to charge anyone. Whilst there is an increasingly widely held view of innocence, the true issue is not innocence/guilt, but the fact that ASADA hasn't got the evidence to charge anyone.

Why do some seem to think that this or that player will make an excellent coach the minute he hangs up his boots ?

No, but we might gain one for being one !!

Dunn is playing the best, most consistent footy of his career, perhaps due to the fact that he's essentially been left in one position. However, his best and most consistent are not enough to keep him in a better side. When we get better, he should start to struggle to get a regular game. If we could trade him for a midfielder of reasonable quality (eg, equivalent to a Matt Jones) I'd do so. But I wouldn't delist him yet - there are plenty ahead of him in that queue.

No but he's symptomatic. Here's a guy who's played FF, CHF, defensive flanker, tagger, wing, half back ball user, 3rd tall defender, back pocket and never cemented a spot with consistent football. He's actually been consistent for most of this year but at a very low level. It's also a surprise that he still is a guy who you have no confidence with ball in hand. You'd expect him by now to have established a tempo to what he does by foot. Ie. is he a take the game on guy who makes a few mistake but you put up with it because he sets up important play and generally makes attacking decisions (Terlich) or is he a steady and safe disciplined type like Garland who will choose a correct option or if in doubt go long to advantage. I think a new coach would leave him where he is position wise and hope you can develop better players to force him out of the side which shouldn't be too hard. I'd say a 188-192cm defender with proper skills and decision making would still be high on the list. 2 Garland's and no Dunn's would be lovely!

Just on Jordie - his attitude is what a good club culture can be built upon. Those that just waive away his desire and hardness and attitude simply because of his skills are not giving enough thought to the type of club we want to build. We need to surround these kids with some big bodies and tough minds by the way. Don't give up much for them and don't attack the club for getting them either. If I could get Sewell, Cross, and Thompson while keeping picks in the 40s I would do it.

No, no, no, he's an important part if the future with his aggression and jumper punching and yeah whatever, I'm watching The Rock. It's a good movie!

enyaw has hit the froths again

Under New Management

Not sure about the slogan for next year but FCS can we try and land Snickers as our new major sponsor then ask then if we can use their line? MFC - Get some nuts! Or Woody Harrelson could become the new face of the MFC membership campaign with... "It's time to nut-up, or shut-up."

David Swallow is someone we should seriously go after in my opinion. He is the bull and freak that Melbourne need. It's almost as if he hasnt fitted in their midfield with O'meara, Martin, Ablett and Prestia. Taylor Adams seems like he wants to leave, so we should try to snap him up IMO i'd be happy if we could snare just one of them, realistically

Well done Brad Haddin on the keeper record for dismissals in a series. Great work and 9 more wickets to get in 38 overs! haha.

I will say this, if us, Carlton and Adelaide lost draft picks for salary cap cheating, and Essendon don't lose at least 2-3 years of draft picks for DRUG cheating, the AFL should be ashamed of themselves. I'd rather Essendon play finals, knowing they won't make it far anyway, than watch them continue to develop their club via the draft. We all know that draft penalties are the things that hurt the club most, and take the longest to recover from. A fine is not an issue for such a rich club, neither is taking away one or two finals games. They should pay for years to come for putting their players and the AFL in jeopardy, and then kicking up a stink, tainting the entire competition and the 2013 season with their garbage.

Martin would have been a massive win. We should start getting used to it. No one is going to want to come to us this year. And for all those people saying it cant get any worse ... it will. Wooden spoon for us next year. GWS will suprass us in leaps and bounds from here on in. Going to be a long year again next year.

BT: "huge breaking news on Hird". Mark Stevens: "something might happen on Monday".