Is our time at the top done?

[Wells 11 4,744]

This is def a question...not a statement. But I wonder what peoples feelings are?  I think Im really hoping people refute the thought . What am i missing? 

 "Our time may be up" thoughts. 

1./ Goody getting sued and all that press must be putting added pressure on him . Can he manage it? Is he getting supported. 

2./ Lost 4 finals in a row. Perhaps the players lose confidence, drive or motivation now after 3 years of pushing hard. . The post game bake Goody gave , and the canx of our mad monday, may send them in all kind of directions pyschologically. Can they bounce back...and stay motivated re training this off season? 

3./ Loss of a lot of depth. Grundy, JJ, Harmes, Dunstan, ( most likely BB and possibly Tmac) plus Petty may take a long while to be back. So our reserves will be tested this coming year like no other for a while. If we start getting injuries early the wheels could come off. 

4./ No back up ruck. With all the obvious issues that presents. If Petty is missing ( and pending  trading for a fwd)  we may have no big fwd for the start of the year as well. 

5./ The media pile on will only get bigger if we start badly in 24. " wasted our chance" " bad management" " terrible decision re Grundy" Tracc cant kick" "Goody no good" etc etc. It could get fierce next year quite quickly. The heat will be high. Damo and Caro will lead the charge...we've all seen that [censored] movie before. 

6./ How many years does a club like ours actually get at the top? We're hardly a Geelong advertising both  lifestyle and "best in class" facilities are we. 

7./ Gawn at the edge re his age and body. If he falls over, our time at the pointy end may be finished.

8./Teams have gone past us or soon will. Adelaide/ Carlton/ GWS/ Port/ Lions/ Pies

 

"Staying up at the top" thoughts

1./ Midfield is dominant and in their prime. Sparrow improving.

2./ Stars all over the field still in the peak of their careers.

3./ 71 k fans and growing. More big crowds next year...team extra motivated. Win some close ones, change the narrative. 

4./ Perhaps a home base announcement Q1? Some good news in the press....changes the narrative 

5./ Goody a seasoned warrior as player and coach. Case is dismissed and HWSNBN can F off. 

6./ Petty just getting started as a fwd, JVR a year on. Fitter and bigger...and angry. 

7./ We just cant have the bad luck injury wise nor the bad kicking of 23 ...it just cant happen again..can it? . 

 

[Smokey 4,126]

Oh look, another doom and gloom thread that could’ve been a comment on 100 other threads

[beelzebub 22,225]

No

[von 1,220]

Tune in next year to find out 

[adonski 9,150]

I think we'll be okay. 

Forward line will be much better next year - Petty, JVR, Fritsch, Pickett, Tracc is a great core

Defence will be strong as per normal pending Steven May not dying from old age in the off season 

Midfield is the biggest concern...question marks over Gus, Sparrow is just okay, Langdon went backwards. This is the area that needs experimenting with the most I reckon...

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,200]

7 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

2./ Lost 4 finals in a row. Perhaps the players lose confidence, drive or motivation now after 3 years of pushing hard. . The post game bake Goody gave , and the canx of our mad monday, may send them in all kind of directions pyschologically. Can they bounce back...and stay motivated re training this off season? 

Can anyone provide further details on this?

[Superunknown 3,315]

Could go either way - you make good points on both sides.

I’ve a bad feeling we might see a drop off. Will depend on this trade period and the ruck backup in particular as well as how the current crop develop next 24 months. Another serious knee injury to max and….

It’s not clear to me the club will be able to have a high retention rate of these members. Finishes like this year are a consideration in terms of investment especially given cost of living crisis. It’s why I tnink the club might be prudent addressing this with members. Pretending it didn’t happen doesn’t seem the best approach (but I’m aware some here think the club doesn’t owe its members this kind of explanation)

[Superunknown 3,315]

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Can anyone provide further details on this?

WCW mentioned it in I tnink the cool light of day or post game thread 

[640MD 2,795]

Just another question to those that watch Casey,

Bowey came up late 2021   played fantastically,

not sure who came on in 2022

but we had McVee in 2023

Who from our list at Casey WILL make a total difference,

One from Casey, one from the draft    We are looking great again

I think we should all get hats with       MMGA  all over them in big letters    (or MDGA)

[hemingway 7,589]

Reasonable comments Wells.

What worries me the most is to see the young talent and progress of the other clubs particularly those in the top half. There is serious talent out there characterised by pace, skill and energy. Characteristics that we have lacked this year. The clubs that are ahead of us all appear to have better young talent than we do. And young talent on the rise. We need new blood. So our drafting, development and blooding of youth will be key. Despite our resilience, at times we have lacked energy and flair. We look like the team that has climbed the mountain rather than a team that is desperate for another flag. We have looked stale not fresh. So 2024 is going to a challenging season, one critical to our progress and the recognition that we are one of the top clubs. 

[The heart beats true 16,156]

9 minutes ago, 640MD said:

Just another question to those that watch Casey,

Bowey came up late 2021   played fantastically,

not sure who came on in 2022

but we had McVee in 2023

Who from our list at Casey WILL make a total difference,

One from Casey, one from the draft    We are looking great again

I think we should all get hats with       MMGA  all over them in big letters    (or MDGA)

Blake Howes, Disco Turner and Woewodin (both who you’ve seen) all look more than capable.

AMW came on a bit towards the end of the season.

Personally I rate Jefferson. It’s a huge jump in strength and lack of space playing against under 18’s to the VFL. He can mark and kick.

I expect us to bring in experienced midfield depth to replace contest players Dunstan and Harmes, and to a lesser extent JJ.

[layzie 28,746]

I think it's worth asking the question and I hope you don't get panned too much for asking it. On my lunchtime walk just now I was literally thinking this.

Making the top 4 is extremely difficult, I feel that now we are accustomed to these successful home and away seasons that we just assume we’ll automatically be back there again next year. The reality set in today that there is absolutely no guarantee of this. There are a heap of teams around us getting better, Carlton have put their name in lights, Bris and Collingwood won’t go away, Dogs and Freo could get it together and Sydney could be back with a bang. Then there’s the potential bolters, I have a real feeling that Adelaide are not only going play finals next year but make a serious play for the top 4. The reality is that teams are improving and a place in the 4 isn’t owned by us.

On the other hand it is pretty amazing to me how our game style has managed to hold up in the past two seasons(Home and away). I wouldn’t have been surprised if we’d taken a step back after the flag but you have to say it’s impressive. 

Gut feel right now (and I preface this by saying right now it could change after trade and draft and when depression has subsided) is that 2 straight sets exits will weigh heavily. I’d say we play finals next year but miss top 4. I get ribbed a bit sometimes for using Soccer comparisons but in 2022 when Liverpool were competing for a domestic title and were in the European Champions League final, they ended up my Man City then dominated the first half of the Champions League Final only to not take their chances and lose to Real Madrid 1-0 who had one shot on target the whole game. This knocked the stuffing out of them and along with some other issues I think it contributed to their nose dive in the EPL last year. I don’t want to be negative but I can see a world where this happens to us, the honeymoon period of 2021 is well and truly over.

Alternatively I can see us rebound stronger with a few new inclusions and tweaks to the already successful game plan. Will cross fingers every week for minimal injuries. I'm hopeful, but I will temper my expectations. At the start of 22 and 23 I expected to make a PF bare minimum and was convinced there was another flag in the list, I'm not so sure right now. Then again I also do better when my expectations are tempered, some people can shoot for the moon but it just raises the bar too high and increases the margin for disappointment. I love the game above all and will try to enjoy watching this great side play, anything else is a bonus. 
 

[Docs Demons 1,659]

I reckon we have 1-3 years left at the top with the current list and that's not counting on a few coming through from Casey plus McAdam and other new recruits. Basically plenty of kicking drills in the off season actually changing our style to lower eyes and kick to someone in a better position. To many times we have spare players all alone in the forward half and basically ignore them. Simple task to fix IMO but it seems no one at the club wants to do.

[inanunda 313]

1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

This is def a question...not a statement. But I wonder what peoples feelings are?  I think Im really hoping people refute the thought . What am i missing? 

 "Our time may be up" thoughts. 

1./ Goody getting sued and all that press must be putting added pressure on him . Can he manage it? Is he getting supported. 

2./ Lost 4 finals in a row. Perhaps the players lose confidence, drive or motivation now after 3 years of pushing hard. . The post game bake Goody gave , and the canx of our mad monday, may send them in all kind of directions pyschologically. Can they bounce back...and stay motivated re training this off season? 

3./ Loss of a lot of depth. Grundy, JJ, Harmes, Dunstan, ( most likely BB and possibly Tmac) plus Petty may take a long while to be back. So our reserves will be tested this coming year like no other for a while. If we start getting injuries early the wheels could come off. 

4./ No back up ruck. With all the obvious issues that presents. If Petty is missing ( and pending  trading for a fwd)  we may have no big fwd for the start of the year as well. 

5./ The media pile on will only get bigger if we start badly in 24. " wasted our chance" " bad management" " terrible decision re Grundy" Tracc cant kick" "Goody no good" etc etc. It could get fierce next year quite quickly. The heat will be high. Damo and Caro will lead the charge...we've all seen that [censored] movie before. 

6./ How many years does a club like ours actually get at the top? We're hardly a Geelong advertising both  lifestyle and "best in class" facilities are we. 

7./ Gawn at the edge re his age and body. If he falls over, our time at the pointy end may be finished.

8./Teams have gone past us or soon will. Adelaide/ Carlton/ GWS/ Port/ Lions/ Pies

 

"Staying up at the top" thoughts

1./ Midfield is dominant and in their prime. Sparrow improving.

2./ Stars all over the field still in the peak of their careers.

3./ 71 k fans and growing. More big crowds next year...team extra motivated. Win some close ones, change the narrative. 

4./ Perhaps a home base announcement Q1? Some good news in the press....changes the narrative 

5./ Goody a seasoned warrior as player and coach. Case is dismissed and HWSNBN can F off. 

6./ Petty just getting started as a fwd, JVR a year on. Fitter and bigger...and angry. 

7./ We just cant have the bad luck injury wise nor the bad kicking of 23 ...it just cant happen again..can it? . 

 

What was the bake he gave the team after the game? I haven't read anything about it here so any info would be great. Mad Monday cancelled? Interesting...

[Diamond_Jim 11,769]

I was surprised how well our gameplan (which I have never liked) stood up against what I call the "corridor teams". Better accuracy and better forward play would have seen us atop the ladder.

What worries me is that in 2023 even when we were winning we struggled. Close games even if you pull away in the last ten minutes take their toll.

2024.. I have no idea (2022 and 2023 have tempered my thoughts)

Hoping for 3 youngsters from this year's draft like 2019 to give the team that fresh desire and skill injection

[Wells 11 4,744]

6 minutes ago, inanunda said:

What was the bake he gave the team after the game? I haven't read anything about it here so any info would be great. Mad Monday cancelled? Interesting...

WCW mentioned it in the “ cool light of day” thread

Edited September 20, 2023 by Wells 11

[tiers 2,769]

No.

Even with Petty, JVR, Fritsch, TMac, Melksham, Brayshaw out or recently returned, we came within a total of 9 points to be in both finals.

Teams don't get to top 4 and so close in finals without considerable talent playing well. It was our misfortune to lose a forward line at the wrong time. Backs, midfielders and on ballers are still top class. The loss of Brayshaw hurt us more than is superficially evident. Brayshaw on the ball would release Petracca to play near the goal square and enhance our forward potential.

What do we need? Who knows but, at a minimum, a settled forward line with Petty and JVR, a better chop out for Gawn (I reckon JVR and or Petty could play the Hawkins role in the forward line) and perhaps one more dynamic, speedy midfielder/half back to carry the ball would improve us a lot.

We have good draft positions so let's use them well.

[Little Goffy 12,576]

Literally turn two behinds into two goals each game, and we've only lost two games in the whole of 2023.

Our problems are obvious and therefore targetable. We have players leaving who have moderate trade value but aren't established in our best 22, and retirements of similar type which enable significant list renewal.

We go into the draft with roughly one pick every 7 selections in the first two rounds.

I think with just a little bit of column A (the premiership-winning draft pick-ups of Selwood and Rioli at 7 and 14) and a little bit of column B (Richmond trading aggressively to fill their list holes in 2016, getting Caddy, Nankervis and Prestia) and a little from column C (meaningful assessment and reorganisation of the coaching panel) we would be going into 2024 on a huge boost.

I think we're more likely to have a rebound on the scale of Essendon 1999-into-2000 than any kind of flop.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,782]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Can anyone provide further details on this?

 

2 hours ago, Superunknown said:

WCW mentioned it in I tnink the cool light of day or post game thread 

I did indeed. Not gonna say who told me about the post-match tirade, suffice to say it was from a reliable source who has never told me anything that turned out to be untrue. I’ve since heard the same thing from a totally different source. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by WalkingCivilWar

[WalkingCivilWar 31,782]

2 hours ago, Smokey said:

Oh look, another doom and gloom thread that could’ve been a comment on 100 other threads

Ignore the thread then. The title alone is enough for you to know that it’s what you consider a doom and gloom thread. Nobody twisted your arm to read it, let alone post in it. 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

There's danger signs. Game plan clearly is stale and they're having a hard time with the current players migrating from the 2021 plan to a new more expansive, skillful style that creates better scoring options. 

Plus the personnel:

Our elite players are May, Gawn, Viney, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Petracca.

2 are very much in veteran territory now:

Gawn is slowing down and we are unlikely to have a great back up.
May, slow start to the year, epic finish

2 more might have to change roles:
Viney had a great year but a year that ended with him butchering it. There's an argument he has to go forward now and be used in midfield bursts like Taylor Adams, we just can't have so many costly Jack turnovers.
Tracc might have to be a forward/mid too if he continues his inconsistent defensive pressure. I'd still back him on his day to be the best player in the comp but he might not be a week to week superstar. 

3 others:
Oliver....where to start, where to finish. No comment
Lever...maybe he just isn't that good? Great interceptor on his day but shaky at times and doesn't provide kicking skills or running the ball out skills to match the intercepts
Salem - had a nightmare 2 years

Do we have any other elite players on our list?
Fritsch? Petty? JVR? Pickett? Rivers? Sparrow? Not sure.

Now if everything goes well then we nail a new game plan in 2024. We do find out that possibly Petty and Rivers or others are genuinely elite. And we'll have added some real quality in the drafts. So there's hope. But we're much more in to the unknown now than we were these last 2 years IMO.

[Roost it far 6,143]

Salem, Langdon my 2 main concerns as Goodwin will just keep playing them not matter how poor their form. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Roost it far

[Superunknown 3,315]

If we elite kicking and decision making and the right positions - we should be ok. A draftee who is ready to go mid next year would be ace 

[Roost it far 6,143]

1 minute ago, Superunknown said:

If we elite kicking and decision making and the right positions - we should be ok. A draftee who is ready to go mid next year would be ace 

Harley Reid

[BaliDemon 401]

Gawn and May are the lynchpins of our premiership chances for mine. They are very special players. With our impending draft/trade haul and those two still playing at or near their best, we are in the hunt. 

I think we’ve got 2 seasons left to win another one, maximum 3 before the wheel inevitably turns.