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Dees considering big trade plays


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2 hours ago, durango said:

Why compare a player to a current player unless you want to talk up that recruit to clubs.

How many players compared to Cripps or Oliver will become as good as Cripps or Oliver or even better.

Recruiters often talk about 'types' of players rather than saying he is the next Buddy or Cyril

If you saw Kozzie and said he plays in the same style as Cyril you would immediately know what sort of player he was without suggesting he was going to be as good or better.

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5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Recruiters often talk about 'types' of players rather than saying he is the next Buddy or Cyril

If you saw Kozzie and said he plays in the same style as Cyril you would immediately know what sort of player he was without suggesting he was going to be as good or better.

Yes that maybe true but I know what it is like living in the shadow of your father and the expectation it placed upon me to succeed in his chosen sport which I rejected for that reason, it effected my mental health during my sporting years.

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23 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

If you saw Kozzie and said he plays in the same style as Cyril you would immediately know what sort of player he was without suggesting he was going to be as good or better.

The media will also always use star players as a comparison because they're the players that people know.

The comparison that Sheahan was previously making for Jefferson was Harry Jones. It's no surprise that they're now using Max King as the comparison, since most casual fans would say 'who the hell is Harry Jones?'

It's why every year some slowish player with great composure is compared with Scott Pendlebury but not many compared with Harley Balic or Dom Tyson. It's more about giving the casual fan a general idea of the player's style, rather than their quality.

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2 hours ago, durango said:

Why compare a player to a current player unless you want to talk up that recruit to clubs.

How many players compared to Cripps or Oliver will become as good as Cripps or Oliver or even better.

With the pressure of expectation will cause that player mental harm by beating himself up at not becoming the great player he was expected to be.

Player who had fathers who we great players often never reach the heights their fathers did just because they are always compared to them.

Players like Jack Watts, Sam Weideman and Callum Brown had expectations of greatness only to fail because of the pressure they no longer enjoy their football career.

There is an old saying 'if you love your job you'll never work a day in your life'.

Do you want kids to be compared to retired players only? These kids don’t make it, not because they have undue pressure, but because they are not good enough, or not ready to be a professional or due to injury. Personally, I would have a minimum age of 20 to bring kids onto a list but that will impact the quality of our league to do that.

Recruiters require comparison as a tool to select - even our lord and saviour Jason Taylor recently mentioned that in a pod with Cal Twomey. Therefore, those around the game covering it and developing it need to support that if we are to provide opportunities to those kids that will excel.

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I now feel quite happy trading all three of our available r1 picks for a top 5 pick this year if the player we want is there. We might rate Philipou as top 2-3 talent. If we lose Jacko and replace him with another x-factor young player, I'd be happy. More than ever I think high end talent breaks games open and wins flags. You can draft a million role players to fill out the rest of the team but IMO 3 x pick 13 < 1 x pick 2.

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1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Recruiters often talk about 'types' of players rather than saying he is the next Buddy or Cyril

If you saw Kozzie and said he plays in the same style as Cyril you would immediately know what sort of player he was without suggesting he was going to be as good or better.

I still recall in Kozzies first season, sitting behind some feral Carlton supporters, who stopped short of racially abusing him, but at best, kept calling him Cyril.

I just couldn’t understand why you would knock a first year player.

Anyway, after Kozzie kicked a great goal, I jumped up screaming “go Cyril.” Then again after his second goal and every time he touched it. It drove the ferals mad.

They went very quiet and we won, a good day at the footy.

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19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I still recall in Kozzies first season, sitting behind some feral Carlton supporters, who stopped short of racially abusing him, but at best, kept calling him Cyril.

I just couldn’t understand why you would knock a first year player.

Anyway, after Kozzie kicked a great goal, I jumped up screaming “go Cyril.” Then again after his second goal and every time he touched it. It drove the ferals mad.

They went very quiet and we won, a good day at the footy.

I sat behind Dogs supporters who called Buku Khamis as CJ. Their own freaking player!

But if you’re going to be racist idiots I’d say labelling Pickett as one of the greatest small forwards of all time and the best defensive small I’ve seen, isn’t very effective. 

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On 11/22/2022 at 2:49 PM, Nascent said:

Suspect it would be for Ginbey.

Word is that it’s for either of him or the Pou, yep! We wanted a top 6 believing (through own mock draft I presume, which would be likely 90% accurate) that one will be available at pick 6. Surprised as heck no one bit tbh… possible still one may come to party and are just posturing right now, for me — I’d of thought Hawks wanna load up next year but our picks are likely 12-18 so not exactly Uber attractive HOWEVER — next year draft depth is massive and picks 16-22 are like pick 6-10 this year in many people’s view!  

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1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I sat behind Dogs supporters who called Buku Khamis as CJ. Their own freaking player!

But if you’re going to be racist idiots I’d say labelling Pickett as one of the greatest small forwards of all time and the best defensive small I’ve seen, isn’t very effective. 

And Kossies record is right up there with Cyril in stats and his effect on the opposition despite what you will say in reply.

No he hasn't  got a Norm  yet but time is on his side.

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1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I sat behind Dogs supporters who called Buku Khamis as CJ. Their own freaking player!

But if you’re going to be racist idiots I’d say labelling Pickett as one of the greatest small forwards of all time and the best defensive small I’ve seen, isn’t very effective. 

you'd rate cyril ahead of flash defensively?

i reckon if flash had played in a good side he'd be, rightly, regarded with a lot more fervour than the 30% winning rate in 180-odd games he garnered

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1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

you'd rate cyril ahead of flash defensively?

i reckon if flash had played in a good side he'd be, rightly, regarded with a lot more fervour than the 30% winning rate in 180-odd games he garnered

Not a knock on Flash, he changed the game with his run down tackles and paved the way for a generation of tackling smalls. But then he became a midfielder. Cyril had more physicality to his tackling and maybe a touch more ability to come from all angles, where as Davey was the kind of the chase down. I agree, if Davey had the luxury of playing forward in a winning side his entire career he'd be rated higher.

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6 hours ago, Nudge said:

Word is that it’s for either of him or the Pou, yep! We wanted a top 6 believing (through own mock draft I presume, which would be likely 90% accurate) that one will be available at pick 6. Surprised as heck no one bit tbh… possible still one may come to party and are just posturing right now, for me — I’d of thought Hawks wanna load up next year but our picks are likely 12-18 so not exactly Uber attractive HOWEVER — next year draft depth is massive and picks 16-22 are like pick 6-10 this year in many people’s view!  

Surprised Gold Coast haven’t bit, with them in need of points for academy players next year, although they may think they’re a chance to get them on the relative cheap due to the overall strength of the draft.

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4 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Surprised Gold Coast haven’t bit, with them in need of points for academy players next year, although they may think they’re a chance to get them on the relative cheap due to the overall strength of the draft.

You don’t want first rounders to pay for academy players. You trade out of your first rounders and pay for the points with 2nd and 3rds which I believe GC have already started stocking up on. They’ll try to load up on picks in the 30’s to match a haul similar to Ashcroft and Fletcher this year. 

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2 hours ago, Demonstone said:

There's a bit of Demons talk buried near the bottom of this article.  It's a little ambiguous but I think the suggestion is that other clubs believe that we're keen on defender Jakob Ryan who is from South Australia.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/star-gaelic-footballer-to-strengthen-the-cats-20221125-p5c19c.html

JT talked about addressing multiple needs with our picks, more than just a tall forward, and Ryan would certainly provide cover for the loss of Hunt and replace Hibbo long term as a medium defender. We could do with that combination of speed, run and good height for a flanker. Could be a wing option too.

I don’t think a skinny frame would prevent him being ready to push his case quickly given his role, so he’d be a fun pick up. 

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4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

JT talked about addressing multiple needs with our picks, more than just a tall forward, and Ryan would certainly provide cover for the loss of Hunt and replace Hibbo long term as a medium defender. We could do with that combination of speed, run and good height for a flanker. Could be a wing option too.

I don’t think a skinny frame would prevent him being ready to push his case quickly given his role, so he’d be a fun pick up. 

Cowan will be better - no doubt in my mind. Most logical Hibberd replacement in this draft. But 13 is too early and 37 is too late for him....

Will be a gun & will play next year (Cowan)

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15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

You don’t want first rounders to pay for academy players. You trade out of your first rounders and pay for the points with 2nd and 3rds which I believe GC have already started stocking up on. They’ll try to load up on picks in the 30’s to match a haul similar to Ashcroft and Fletcher this year. 

Just looked this up and you are correct. They have 2 x 2nd round picks, 3 x 3rd round and 3 x 4th round. They are well sorted for next years academy bids.

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43 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

You don’t want first rounders to pay for academy players. You trade out of your first rounders and pay for the points with 2nd and 3rds which I believe GC have already started stocking up on. They’ll try to load up on picks in the 30’s to match a haul similar to Ashcroft and Fletcher this year. 


I think you might be right, but do they have enough? I got the impression both would be around top 5, so would need more points. They might be expecting to get more through losing players again next year too.

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35 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Cowan will be better - no doubt in my mind. Most logical Hibberd replacement in this draft. But 13 is too early and 37 is too late for him....

Will be a gun & will play next year (Cowan)

and will head straight back to Tasmania when the team starts up there in a few years ...

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15 minutes ago, old55 said:

and will head straight back to Tasmania when the team starts up there in a few years ...

Courtesy of a newly made AFL rule,  that will allowed Taswegians automatic return home, with a pick 50 compo to the affected team.

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My take, is that deals will be done if a player we want is still available. I think we were after phillipou but that seems unlikely now as I don't think we will get into the top 5. We will either trade up our first or second depending what's on offer and who's available. I would be very surprised if we stay with 13 and 37 and take Jefferson with our first. 

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On 11/25/2022 at 3:00 PM, Demonstone said:

There's a bit of Demons talk buried near the bottom of this article.  It's a little ambiguous but I think the suggestion is that other clubs believe that we're keen on defender Jakob Ryan who is from South Australia.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/star-gaelic-footballer-to-strengthen-the-cats-20221125-p5c19c.html

He actually fits a big need IMO than Jefferson, quicker ball movement off half back was an issue last season 

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On 11/24/2022 at 11:05 AM, JimmyGadson said:

Toumpas is a clone of Nick Daicos. 

They have extremely similar attributes and physical makeup.

The only differences were that Toumpas was brought into a rabble of a club, played his first year under Neeld with a limited pre-season due to groin issues and the weight of supporter expectations clearly got the better of him too.

Can you imagine if he was brought into the side now?

He'd have been given the entire first year to develop at VFL level due to his limited workload, he'd be given a defined role in a top two VFL side which has a fantastic culture and he would have been brimming with confidence coming into his first game.

I often think of the amount of high end talent we had during those years, and how different it would have been had they been brought in to our club now. Not saying all would have gone on to be superstars but clearly they were at such a shocking disadvantage as soon as they stepped through the door.

The comparison to where we are now is crazy.

 

The culture/environment issue you talk about is relevant for Jack Watts and a few others.

But Jimmy T, Cale Morton and the like were just dud picks.

if he was a clone of Daicos he would have gone on to play some great footy post Melb, of which he did not. 
 

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