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Farewell Brodie Grundy


Ouch!

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4 hours ago, Tough Kent said:
I heard Josh Jenkins talk about the way some clubs use ruckmen these days. One plays in the back half and the other patrols the forward line. Imagine having big Brodie clunking everything inside defensive 50 while Maysie, Petts and Rick smash their defenders in one on ones. Then you've got Gawny dominating the airways up forward with T-Mac and young Rooey smashing into every pack and clearing bodies for the skip....
 

This is fine in theory. Problem is Grundy is a poor mark and takes a contest mark every four games or so. His poor marking has been the main thing that stopped him becoming the best ruckman in the game, and a reason why IMO he never had as much impact on matches as Gawn, even at their respective peaks.
In terms of aerial marking, he is actually statistically worse than Jackson. So whatever we have with Gawn and Jackson in the air now, is likely better than what we'll have with Gawn and Grundy. There will be no improvement, the best we can hope for in marking contests is to maintain what we have if Grundy improves his output.

The club seems to be rolling with the idea of Grundy being number 1 ruck, and Gawn playing mostly forward. It's a strange one as Gawn showed second half of this year that he's not great as a stay at home forward. He kicked 2 goals in 10 matches while playing forward for approx 55% gametime. That's a horrific conversion rate and makes Ben Brown look like he had an All Aus season!

I cannot see a way we play both Gawn and Grundy and improve as a side. We're essentially diluting our strengths while not improving our weaknesses.

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4 hours ago, Antioch said:

He’s 28.

When people refer to the age of players during trade period they mostly refer to what they'll be at the start of next season. He'll be 29 in April and has 5 years to run of his existing contract with injuries troubles this season.

Edited by SFebes
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16 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

This is fine in theory. Problem is Grundy is a poor mark and takes a contest mark every four games or so. His poor marking has been the main thing that stopped him becoming the best ruckman in the game, and a reason why IMO he never had as much impact on matches as Gawn, even at their respective peaks.
In terms of aerial marking, he is actually statistically worse than Jackson. So whatever we have with Gawn and Jackson in the air now, is likely better than what we'll have with Gawn and Grundy. There will be no improvement, the best we can hope for in marking contests is to maintain what we have if Grundy improves his output.

 

What BS is this? Grundy averages a contested mark per game, same as LJ:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-collingwood-magpies--brodie-grundy?advv=Y

And 3.5 marks a game compared with Luke Jackson 2.8

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-collingwood-magpies--brodie-grundy

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--luke-jackson

Max is the best contested mark in the game (4.5 marks, 2 contested), Grundy is not at that level but he's capable.

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2 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Another small thing picking up Grundy will help with is his ability to spend a lot more time on the ground than what Jackson did, that's understandable with a younger player mind you, but if Grundy can spend another 10% or so, time on ground, that's another 12-15 minutes bench time per game that can be used for our on-ballers. Both Max and Grundy have very high average time on ground stats for ruckmen, and if they were played/rested forward more then this might even increase. We could then refresh our explosive/impact players more. 

Jackson’s an incredible runner capable of high minutes. He was playing big minutes at the start of 2021 when we just played the one tall. He’s battled some niggles this year but I also think the coaches didn’t trust him forward and didn’t get enough out of him in the ruck to keep Max forward either. Plus Ben Brown and Gawn in the same forward line was a non starter.

Grundy should be more trusted in the ruck, but they’ll still have to keep Max forward when he wants to ruck to get good minutes out of them.

Tommy Mc getting two way run out of those beating up feet and ankles and JVR  being a good two way player will be vital to making a 2 ruck system work. 

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32 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

while playing forward for approx 55% gametime

That also is not true. 

Max's % of time rucking did not change throughout the year. He consistently spent around 55-60% the ruck, with Jackson spending 35-40%.

In fact, for the Brisbane final he played even more ruck, with 66% of his time being spent in the ruck. 

Coupled with the fact that he played 90% total game time, it means that he only played 25-30% of games somewhere else other than ruck.

Source: AFL Ruck Contests - DFS Australia

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1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Jackson’s an incredible runner capable of high minutes. He was playing big minutes at the start of 2021 when we just played the one tall. He’s battled some niggles this year but I also think the coaches didn’t trust him forward and didn’t get enough out of him in the ruck to keep Max forward either. Plus Ben Brown and Gawn in the same forward line was a non starter.

Grundy should be more trusted in the ruck, but they’ll still have to keep Max forward when he wants to ruck to get good minutes out of them.

Tommy Mc getting two way run out of those beating up feet and ankles and JVR  being a good two way player will be vital to making a 2 ruck system work. 

Yeah, the way I see if working with Max and Grundy is whoever's not in the ruck sits very deep forward with a TMac or JVR (maybe BBB) sent roaming, and told to get back quick when we turn the ball over or in offence. I'd like them to stay very deep most of the time and allow the likes of Fritta to have extra space to lead into, the main back will have no choice but to stand with them, they are too tall to be let free.

They'd probably try and work it so late in quarters Grundy is the ruck, giving Max the license to head back if we need to stop a quick attack.  Imagine the damage Max could do in the middle up against any other teams 2nd choice ruck?

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2 hours ago, SFebes said:

When people refer to the age of players during trade period they mostly refer to what they'll be at the start of next season. He'll be 29 in April and has 5 years to run of his existing contract with injuries troubles this season.

Season will start in March (when he’s 28), and regardless I believe the widely accepted standard for stating someone’s age is the age they are at the time of the statement. I just feel like people are saying this because they don’t want him, and it suits their narrative.

But I like the logic if it allows me to say I’m 22 - because that was the age I was the last season of football I played. Sadly, my hairline disagrees, and my waistline concurs.

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32 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Yeah, the way I see if working with Max and Grundy is whoever's not in the ruck sits very deep forward with a TMac or JVR (maybe BBB) sent roaming, and told to get back quick when we turn the ball over or in offence. I'd like them to stay very deep most of the time and allow the likes of Fritta to have extra space to lead into, the main back will have no choice but to stand with them, they are too tall to be let free.

They'd probably try and work it so late in quarters Grundy is the ruck, giving Max the license to head back if we need to stop a quick attack.  Imagine the damage Max could do in the middle up against any other teams 2nd choice ruck?

The ruck playing forward goes to where the long bomb is needed. Coming from the back half that should at chf. If play stalls or on repeat entries that will be deep. 

There will be plenty of times Gawn gets long bombed at chf to allow Fritsch to lead back in to space which is something he’s very good at.

We’ve seen Max ruck against second rucks a fair bit this year. It can be good, it can result in Max doing too much Max (attempting hero mode).

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Orignally I was against going after Grundy however when your game is built around stoppage & contest & you have the best on ball brigade in the comp only furthering strengthening is with another All Australian ruckmen can only be a good thing... We'd lose absolutely nothing when Gawn has a rest & can balance the load more between Gawn & Grundy...

I actually think this should be a ploy to get Gawn back to playing that kick behind the play to help shore up our defence rather than forward. 

Not to mention we don't have another ruckmen on our list, if Gawn goes down next year who rucks ? Weid ? If we get 2 first rounders for Jackson move the later one on for Grundy & keep one I don't think it's the worst result. We will be paying him peanuts & in reality is the best option for a 2nd ruckman out there. We are in window, we need to ensure we have all bass covered & if we lost Gawn through injury you can shut that window. 

People laughed when we used pick 3 on Jackson saying why would we need another ruckmen... I'm backing the club in on this one to have a solid play that sees both capable of playing in the same side. 3 years ago Grundy was rivalling Gawn for the #1 ruck in the comp, we could have both. 

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Like almost the rest of the AFL watching and commentating world I've been confused by Grundy as a trade target as well. But regardless of where they specifically lined up, the Gawn-Jackson combination delivered us a flag in 2021. Maybe the forward craft isn't as important to Goody and the footy department as having two fresh rucks available at their disposal?

Neither Grundy nor Jackson contribute all that much in terms of around-the-ground contested marking, but Grundy is noted as a follow-up specialist at ground level post-tap - exactly what Jackson excelled at - except Grundy is still probably better.

People speak of Jackson's influence in the third quarter of the grand final. Max wasn't at full forward at the time. It was a change out and fresh legs. Grundy is currently a much better player than Jackson by almost any objective measure - who cares where he and Max line up and fit in together? And who knows what influence fresh legs have in the middle? 

Honestly, I don't even know where Jackson was playing most of the time. I want to see more flags in the next five years. Having a ruck like Grundy on board will help with that, and his cost is the same as what it would have been to retain Jackson. 

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29 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Stuart McGill was one of the top 5 spinners Australia has ever produced but it rarely made sense to pick him in the test team alongside Warnie. 

We would be better off allocating our salary cap space elsewhere to improve our forward line. 

You're putting a bit of spin on that.

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56 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Stuart McGill was one of the top 5 spinners Australia has ever produced but it rarely made sense to pick him in the test team alongside Warnie. 

We would be better off allocating our salary cap space elsewhere to improve our forward line. 

Still say he should have come in for Tait for the 5th Ashes Test at The Oval in 2005.

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3 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Max also had a say in recruiting Lachie Filipovic and thought he'd be great. 

He was a monumental fail. 

Just sayin'. 

Haha...true. 

Just a slight contrast in exposed form here though. 

Most other rucks would see Grundy as a threat to their position.  We all know Max is a different cat and works with others. The GF Jackson 3rd quarter a perfect example.

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It's not Max's call anyway, as we know. 

And it doesn't matter what forward-line we have if our game-plan and therefore ball-movement strategy remains the same. 

Another thing posters are forgetting is that our bull-at-a-gate midfielders need further education and practice on how to take an extra step or two from a centre square break or stoppage in order to execute a better weighted kick going inside 50. This is of equal importance to all other factors contributing to our forward-connection problem. Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw and Viney are all culprits and simply need to cut out half of those bomb it in kicks they make when they've got more time than they think to take that extra step or two. 

This is why I think it's just as important to bring in either an established player or two through the middle of the ground or hit the draft and grab Sheezel and/or some other players who can really balance us out. 

It doesn't actually matter who we bring in to our forwardline if these issues aren't strongly addressed and corrected. 

 

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1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

🤦🏼‍♂️Filipovic was an 18 year old kid.  

It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. 

I know the differences. 

Just pointing out that Max is fallible as are our coaches and whether he was at the meeting or not doesn't really matter. Clearly Max would love the idea of playing in tandem with the second best ruck in the comp (when fit). 

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