POSTGAME: Community Series vs Carlton

[Lucifers Hero 37,007]

Our premiership backline would have struggled given that we lost clearances 26 : 49 (even though we won the hit outs).  They beat us at our own game: quick breaks from centre bounces or spread with overlapping run.

In future I hope Gus goes back to the wing.  We really missed his defensive work when Carlton were going forward.

We may need to manage our young players who have only a couple of preseasons.  Most had their first full year of games playing 20-25 games in 2021 and backing up on a shortish preseason with relatively 'unhardened' AFL bodies will take its toll, especially later in the season.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

9 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

It would have been daylight robbery but [censored] were the umpires disgusting. Should be sent to the bush all of them. Commonsense umpiring is all I ask for and it wasn't seen tonight. DISGRACEFUL

I don't blame the umpires. Clearly what happened is Gil comes out and makes an announcement mid-week and following on from that the umpires are told to go hard on this issue on the first game following that announcement. As Goody said post-game it wasn't an issue last week bur suddenly now it is. I think that says it all.

I'm grateful that it didn't cost us in a real game. We lost one game last year because of poor umpiring. I don't want it to happen again in 2022. I'm sure Melbourne will be querying some of the decisions behind the scenes during the week. You should get 50m for genuine dissent, but querying an umpires decision isn't dissent. 

I thought Carlton were very good in the first half, so credit where credit's due. I think after last week's easy win we didn't show enough respect for our opponents and just thought it would happen. We were missing 5 players from our GF defence so understandably things were far from perfect down back. I don't understand though the decision to play Gus on the HBF. I assume it was because they wanted to try Baker on the Wing. Why didn't we try these experiments last week against easy opposition and put the best team in this week? There's 13 days til Round 1 so why rest players now? It will be 3 weeks since their last practice game.

I agree with others that the only real issue was the midfield. I think what it shows is that when we are being beaten in the contest Trac's tendency to play ahead of the ball and get the easy handball receive doesn't work. We need flexibility in this regard.

Having said all that, with Viney and Lever now having a game under their belts, we'll be much better for the run. Bring on Round 1!  


 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,150]

Those that are crying foul about the 8 fifty metre penalties, did Carlton give any away?

You’d think our boys would’ve gotten the hint after say the 3rd infringement.

[The heart beats true 16,117]

My biggest learning is that hysterics are back!

Oh the real Demonland. How I’ve missed you.

[John Demonic 4,796]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

For GSake JD the Tmac experiment for a wing that never made more than training last season is where it belongs, out in the undergrowth outside Casey Fields fences with the slitherers and Aussie Zoo reptiles. 

After Tmac's great comeback season last year to drag his name up for a wing is ridiculous at best, pathetic and unhelpful at worst.

Since when did he play any meaningful part or ever look like a modern day centreline asset?

Yes you will point to 5 minute cameos at the start of games early in 2018 to get him primed up for CHF or FF. And delusional fans ( like the coach or whoever ) think he could be a full time wingers Club member  with Angus and Lingers are about as clever as Mark Neeld  on match day tactics. 

It's like not deleting an email on your 2018 inbox for a street closure for 3 days   In June that year. WASTE OF SPACE.

Thankfully 95% of Dees fans have consigned some old habits after last season and very soon either Howes or Rosman  may be developed enough to release Angus to his former duties if that's the direction is favoured.

That in no way is a certainty as I was privileged to see front and centre seated on the wing at Optus Stadium last September Angus play his best ever game and be in the top5 for us in our flag triumph. He was everything a player could have been anywhere in a Demon guernsey that day so it's not an issue that Tmac is any where near solving especially as he has found his mojo at CHF again and his 2018 cameos have been deleted from Coaches files and hopefully 2022 supporters memories of yesteryear. 
I trust you are too embarrassed to even reply to this post.

Relax 58. I simply saw the 4 talls named and thought we might experiment with TMAC on the wing and Weid/BB up forward, rehearsing in the event of a Brayshaw or Langdon injury later in the year.

 

It's not that crazy an idea, given the coach had it - And if Tmac or BB suffer an injury, and Weid comes in and holds his spot - Will we keep one of them out of the team or look at ways we can fit them all in? I bet Goody is creative enough to do something there. He had Tomlinson on a wing, granted it failed, but it shows he is thinking outside the box on positional changes like having a tall-athletic wingman to cover space on the ground and aerially. I have not seen Rosman or Howes, so I'm not prepared to consider them in the 22 yet. We are talking about a defensive winger role that requires a mature head for it, so whether Jordon is being primed as a back-up wingman, or not - It's hard to see anyone else coming through and certainly not Baker.

 

Too embarrassed to reply? Cmon mate, life is too short to get embarrassed over internet posts. And besides, The demonland forum off-season of premiership good-will hasn't ended yet. Cheers!

Edited March 3, 2022 by John Demonic

[Lucifers Hero 37,007]

6 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

My biggest learning is that hysterics are back!

Oh the real Demonland. How I’ve missed you.

It all depends on one's perspective.  I thought about 90% of comments are fair, especially those made after an hour the game finished

[Demon17 4,543]

10 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Very fumbly, missed tackles, really poor kicking skills, very greasy night.

Carlton's smalls and mids looked OK but we never put any real tackling pressure on - maybe deliberate only being a preseason game. 

Tracc, Clarry and Viney all tried the extra bit too often and got tackled easily. Habits from the past.

Brown, Jackson and later Weid were horrendous in the air.

Everything looked slow, weak.

Only lost by 5 points, felt like 6 goals.

None of the Casey boys took their chance. 

If there was ever an opportuniy last night was it for some of them. 

Last week's annihilation maye told us there on ut won't be as easy again against real talent.

IMO Defensive systems work to suit the talent, and those on was on show last night faltered amongst others, so need the flag players mostly back. If a "system" works all the time, then everyone would be doing it.  Its the talent stupid.

They still now never turn it up. 8 goals down and could have won. Good outcome form the game for mindset.

Doggies will notice this.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Demon17
spelling mistakes

[Demon17 4,543]

10 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Hell if we don’t give away 2 centre circle frees because we can’t count to 6 we probably win too. 
That was pathetic to do twice in a quarter!

Not just last 1/4, but last 5 minutes when we were on the roll to victory - and still nearly won.

 

[sue 8,429]

10 hours ago, Fourhands Vaginelli said:

Don’t know why everyone is getting caught up on the 50m penalties. Annoying but irrelevant and missing the big picture. 
we were terrible and completely outplayed. 
focussing on the umpires is just glossing over the poor performance. The 50m penalties were given while the blues had possession. The blues had possession because in the previous seconds and minutes they had completely out played us 

Is anyone saying we 'lost' because of the 50m penalties?  The concern I have is that penalties which depend on how the umpire intreprets a player saying [censored] because he had a free paid against him will be yet another mess the AFL has created.

[Vipercrunch 2,804]

• Most pleasing - Harmes.  Moved better and with cleaner hands than I remember him doing so.  Really liked his game.
• Clearly rusty - Viney and Lever.  Both missed last week so perhaps understandable. Lever's game did start to resemble normality in the second half but Viney has some way to go.
• Worrying - Pickett, Jackson, Jordan.  As good and as important as Pickett's defensive stuff is, he needs to get on the scoreboard (both himself and with assists).  The less he impacts the scoreboard, the more he seems to get frustrated and down on himself.  Jackson was beaten in the ruck all night and struggled to take contested marks like we know he can.  Jordan hasn't captured his form of early last year yet.  I'm sure they'll come good, but it would be nice to hit the season proper with them in better form.
• Can't understand the hate - Smith.  Played another very solid game I thought.  Some others here saw it that way, others obviously see it very differently.  

Ask me in 6 weeks if tonight meant anything, but Goodwin has lots of talking points now as we focus on Round 1. 

 

[sue 8,429]

Further analysis here is interesting to read,  but this is the main stat for me:

INJURIES
Melbourne: Nil

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

I would have preferred to win because that's what we do now, but I'm glad we didn't romp it in and then dish up this stuff in round 1.

Wake up calls are good and especially before the real stuff starts.

[roy11 2,926]

My main thoughts

• Some sloppy errors but not the end of the world, not like they can take the AFLX trophy of us.
• At one stage of the game I wasn't sure what would be higher - the amount of goals we scored or the amount of 50s we conceded.  I'm all for clamping down against referee abuse, but some of those were extremely soft.
• Our defence in 2021 had a structured system and knowing each others game and we had 5 (flag winning) players out, some individual performances not ideal but wouldn't read too much into that
• Missed the beautiful kicking of Rivers/Salem
• Need Gus back on the wing
• Fritta will score even more goals this year.

 

[drdrake 3,037]

Recovery today is making the side watch that game last night, one side playing pretty hard both defensively and attacking, the other going through the motions to get to round 1.

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,795]

Not much to take out of tonight apart from the crack down on discipline, 6 goals from 50m penalties.

It will be addressed better seeing this now than a common theme during the season.

Good run out for the lads, i wouldn't be getting to excited with Carlton just yet. Lets see how they go against the lesser sides that don't lift the arousal levels.

Knowing Carlton and the way the AFL love to pump them up so much they will be given all the love and help in the world.

Will make it all the more sweeter touching them up IF they play finals.

[Pates 9,536]

Don't worry people, it's the loss we had to have 😉.

Haven't seen any of the game so I can't comment on anything tactically, I'd say this is a massive win for the Blues while for us it might achieve a few things. Firstly it's a reminder that the competition will forever get stronger, we are the hunted now so every game teams will be wanting to put up nothing but their best. Secondly it provides a sobering reminder to those that don't perform that your position isn't set in stone. It also might've given a bit of glimpse into how other teams may try to counter our system.

Great to see Fritta picking up where he left off.

Did Bowser play? His first taste of defeat as a Demon?!

[David-Demon 484]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If Voss is a half-decent coach then Carlton will do well this year.

Like us, they now have genuine top-end talent and their recent trades have been good.

Hey, give credit where credit is due first.. We kicked the last 11 goals of the game.. As for Carlton ??  - nothing to say...

[leave it to deever 15,330]

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Our premiership backline would have struggled given that we lost clearances 26 : 49 (even though we won the hit outs).  They beat us at our own game: quick breaks from centre bounces or spread with overlapping run.

In future I hope Gus goes back to the wing.  We really missed his defensive work when Carlton were going forward.

We may need to manage our young players who have only a couple of preseasons.  Most had their first full year of games playing 20-25 games in 2021 and backing up on a shortish preseason with relatively 'unhardened' AFL bodies will take its toll, especially later in the season.

That's a big stat re clearances. TX for that. Credit that we almost won. Umps sucked....precious dears they are but them the rules.

Moms the word from now on.

[In Harmes Way 7,492]

I thought the 50m penalties for "delays" in getting the ball back to the player awarded the free kick made the game really hard to watch. 

It was interesting that Jordon and Langdon got 50's for "clarifying" who should get the ball before handing it over, and Oliver got a 50m penalty against him for giving the ball back to the wrong player because he didn't ask. So you're damned if you clarify, and damned if you don't, but inadvertently give the ball to the wrong player because you don't know who should have it.

[leave it to deever 15,330]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

My biggest learning is that hysterics are back!

Oh the real Demonland. How I’ve missed you.

The world is rejuvenating.😁

[DeeZee 6,731]

Kozzie worked really hard without reward and I suppose he will have those games as the opposing best small defender will match up on him.

He didn’t get much clean possession last night but he is doing all the right things and it will come.

[sue 8,429]

Re the umpire abuse issue  (sorry I can't let this go):

When free kicks and old-style 50m penslties are awarded, the spectator can see and make their own mind up (however prejudiced!) as to the quality of the umpire's decision. 

So for viewers not to be totally confused with the application of the new abuse interpretation, we need to hear the ump's microphone at all times.  

Of course, it will still be difficult to judge the extent of eye-rolling and head shaking that justifies a 50m penalty.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm annoyed that we've knowingly kept 3+ list cloggers on our list rather than gone and chased midfield, half back and half forward depth. Players that you can find in the state leagues and players that other teams have found in the SPP period. Not much we can do about that now though.

Game plan wise I maintain that we just aren't sharing and running with the ball to full capacity. Everything is too straight lines and bomb it. That worked last year, but you have to adapt and build.

Bowey, Lever and Tomlinson started to settle down in the 2nd half, that was good to see. With more quality back in against the Dogs the backline should be far better. 

Midfield probably couldn't play much worse. Oliver and Petracca do play such a physical style though so I can see why if they're a little bit off they kind of drop away. Just not convinced by our depth though. JJ was a great story last year but he's kind of meh. And Sparrow unfortunately doesn't look to really have made a big leap. And Harmes in Harmes, useful, but not exactly getting any better.

Forward line is the real worry though. Ben Brown fell back down to earth after a great effort last week. Jackson hasn't made a lot of progress in terms of clunking marks and it can't be easy having to switch positions so much. And Tom McDonald is so feast or famine from contest to contest. You just don't know if he'll clunk a mark or hit a target or if he'll let his man gallop away from him with ease.

With due respect, I disagree with nearly everything you've said.

Referring to  3+ list cloggers is totally disrespectful and unfair. Some of the players on our list aren't going to make it no doubt but that's the same in any club. It's not an exact science. ANB went from a fringe unwanted player to essential in 12 months. I guess you would have classified him as a 'list clogger' at the end of 2020. 

8 players were either delisted or retired (pretty much the same thing) at the end of 2021. We picked up 5 players in last year's draft plus traded Luke Dunstan in. You think we should have chased midfield, half back and half forward depth. Did you look at last year's trade period? You don't just get the opportunity to trade talent in at bargain basement prices. Clearly Dunstan was brought in as depth and most of those in the know reckon because of our depth he'll be lucky to get into the side barring significant injuries. We tried to get Cerra in but clearly didn't have the salary cap space for that to happen. In Gawn, Oliver & Petracca we have the top following division in the AFL. There's a drop-off in quality after that but we have depth. We were missing 5 players from our backline in last night's game but 3 will be back for Round 1, and all 5 will be back by Round 3. I agree that if we have 5 players missing from our backline during the season we will have significant issues (that's not going to happen) but no club can have that sort of depth. Haif forward depth? We have Kossie, ANB, Spargo, Harmes, Sparrow. Melksham is there as depth with Laurie coming through. Kossie and Sparrow, possibly Spargo, all have significant upside. All clubs would like to have quality depth players in all positions so injury doesn't have a significant effect on performance, but that just isn't reality with salary caps, quality players wanting to play for the senior side, etc. etc. 

You've written JJ and Sparrow off after one meaningless practice game. Likewise Harmes. For me Harmes is looking stronger this year and didn't look out of place up forward against North in Fritch's absence.

BB is useless after one week, Jackson hasn't progressed apparently, TMac is rubbish. Last night was tough conditions, it was slippery, hot & humid. It didn't suit tall forwards and the delivery into the forward line (especially in the first half) was poor. I do agree with you that TMac has his limitations,  especially when the ball hits the deck, but if he competes in the air, clunks a couple of marks and kicks a couple of goals a match he's doing his job. The same with BBB. Jackson is still a work in progress. Any forward line is going to struggle if there's slippery conditions and the ball is bombed in. One thing I don't understand is why Wiedeman isn't being given more opportunity pre-season. They played him in the ruck for less than a quarter against North and again for less that a quarter against Carlton. Might as well have let him play the whole game for Casey earlier in the day to get his confidence up.

This was just a practice game. We lost by 5 points despite only turning up after half-time. 6 goals were scored by Carlton from 50-metre penalties (we won't see that level of over-officiating or poor discipline again). I'm personally happy with the result. Better that than an easy win against poor opposition. Carlton are much-improved this year and with a new coaching team were clearly out to prove something (unlike Melbourne). Carlton will probably make the 8 this year but I doubt they'll play much better than they did in the first half last night.

[tiers 2,767]

Practice : the act of doing something regularly or repeatedly to improve your skill at doing it: (Cambridge Dictionary)

That's all it was folks. Practice to improve our skills. So long as our skills improve and our reactions to umpires ceases, we will win more often than not. Even without 5 from the GF backline.

GO GOODY GO DEES

[Surfer Dee 210]

Absolutely perfect outcome. We were lazy and over confident. Coaches will [censored] them for the arrogance. We’ll adjust. Get it out of the system before the season even starts. Beautiful.