Current Team Potentially Best in 50 Years

[drdrake 3,038]

3 hours ago, praha said:

On paper, our 1994 team was far and away the best side since our last flag. That team, healthy, would absolutely pummel our current list. Problem was we could never get them all on the park at once, and when we got close to, we would smash teams. Not all the unlike this current crop. Ultimately our issue now is depth. Whenever it's put to the test, we struggle to score. 

I do think we have a very good list atm but it's a combination of structure, coaching and behaviours that still let us down. We're far from perfect but certainly not a 17th-18th team. But we could be. That's the big unknown with this squad.

I think our 1998 team was the best team I've seen play for Melbourne, that forward line that contained Neitz, Schwarz, Lyon, Farmer, Yze then add in Smith or Robertson.  You had Stynes and White as your rucks a great balance of experience and new mids and backline was good.  We smashed the premier in the finals, we just struggled against North Melbourne.

Sliding door moment, we beat North in the prelim we would have beaten Adelaide in the GF, I wonder what our club looks like now 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,177]

15 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We've beaten 7th, 11th and 14th on the ladder so far.

 

In all fairness, the OP is about potential and it makes for an interesting and confusing analysis.

On paper, the line-up is very strong and there is undoubtedly talent across each line.  The question probably is why/how/when that talent will translate into performances better than some of the stronger Mebourne teams of the past few decades. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

I like to think that you are right  D 2014  however unfortunately our club is like ........that you can fall in love with it so quickly and see the love through the other side and on top of the world, then before you know it at the blink of an eye the habits are back and haunting you.

There is waiting and seeing yet to come this year.   

[ProperDee 1,698]

We do have a very good team on paper but as Brian Clough said "We do have a good team on paper but the game is played on grass."

For mine, we have a big hole at CHF in terms of class. TMac is a stop gap to be frank.  IF Weideman can smash himself in the gym and bulk up another 10 kgs of muscle he could be a game breaker there.  I'm not worried about FF. The game is trending away from the traditional goal square types and the big key forwards now loiter between CHF and FF.

[old55 21,356]

32 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I think our 1998 team was the best team I've seen play for Melbourne, that forward line that contained Neitz, Schwarz, Lyon, Farmer, Yze then add in Smith or Robertson.  You had Stynes and White as your rucks a great balance of experience and new mids and backline was good.  We smashed the premier in the finals, we just struggled against North Melbourne.

Sliding door moment, we beat North in the prelim we would have beaten Adelaide in the GF, I wonder what our club looks like now 

1994 PF
18    Charles, Sean
23    Dyson, Kevin
20    Febey, Matthew
21    Febey, Steven
22    Hilton, Jeff
15    Hopgood, Paul
34    Irving, Dean
16    Lovell, Andy    
17    Lovett, Brett    
6    Lovett, Glenn
3    Lyon, Garry
9    Neitz, David
25    Norrish, Jason
29    Obst, Andrew
10    Pike, Martin
19    Prymke, Paul
5    Schwarz, David
11    Stynes, Jim
2    Tingay, Stephen
12    Viney, Todd
27    Wight, Sean

1998 PF
33    Farmer, Jeff
20    Febey, Matthew
21    Febey, Steven
4    Grgic, Brent 
27    Ingerson, Anthony     
7    Kowal, Darren
36    Leoncelli, Andrew     
3    Lyon, Garry 
35    McDonald, Anthony 
23    McDonald, James
9    Neitz, David
43    Rigoni, Guy 
24    Robertson, Russell 
5    Schwarz, David
10    Seecamp, Marcus
1    Shanahan, Jamie
11    Stynes, Jim
2    Tingay, Stephen
12    Viney, Todd
34    White, Jeff
22    Woewodin, Shane
13    Yze, Adem

2000 GF:
B:    26 Daniel Ward    27 Anthony Ingerson    44 Alistair Nicholson
HB:    42 Peter Walsh    28 Matthew Collins    21 Steven Febey
C : 13 Adem Yze    22 Shane Woewodin    35 Anthony McDonald
HF:    18 Brad Green    5 David Schwarz        7 Stephen Powell
F:    24 Russell Robertson    9 David Neitz (c)    33 Jeff Farmer
Foll:    34 Jeff White    43 Guy Rigoni    36 Andrew Leoncelli
Int:    4 Brent Grgic    16 Travis Johnstone    47 Ben Beams

Edited July 22, 2020 by Pollyanna

[deelusions from afar 1,613]

I think it was part way through the Bailey era that someone like Voss or Matthews labelled us as the next powerhouse of the AFL.  we all know the trouble with getting wrapped up in players potential (Whiteboard Wednesdays anyone?)

[loges 6,097]

Let's see how we go the next 2 games, need to win at least one, win both and we can start to get excited.

[spirit of norm smith 12,976]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

I think our 1998 team was the best team I've seen play for Melbourne, that forward line that contained Neitz, Schwarz, Lyon, Farmer, Yze then add in Smith or Robertson.  You had Stynes and White as your rucks a great balance of experience and new mids and backline was good.  We smashed the premier in the finals, we just struggled against North Melbourne.

Sliding door moment, we beat North in the prelim we would have beaten Adelaide in the GF, I wonder what our club looks like now 

Totally agree. We were effectively the runner up in 1998. Behind North. Adelaide stole the 98 flag. I’m sure we would have beaten them. I’m 100% sure. If ....

[BillyBeane 211]

32 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Totally agree. We were effectively the runner up in 1998. Behind North. Adelaide stole the 98 flag. I’m sure we would have beaten them. I’m 100% sure. If ....

1998 was a lost opportunity, in something like the last 8 weeks leading up to the 1998 prelim, either Lyon, Schwarz, Neitz or Farmer kicked at least 5 goals in each game...  In the prelim all we had was single goalkickers.

Anyway looks like cabin fever has set in with this thread lol

Edited July 22, 2020 by BillyBeane

[Lord Travis 10,178]

Disagree this is the best team we've had for the last 50 years. Several teams in the mid-late 90s and early 2000s were better IMO.

While we have some of the best inside midfielders we've had for decades, our team is still unbalanced. I prefer midfields that had some classy players like Tingay to compliment the ball winners.
We've always been blessed for rucks, probably had the best rucks of any club for the past 3 decades - Stynes, White, Jamar, Gawn were all All Australian.
Our current forward line and backline is nowhere near some teams of the 90s though. We need to get some more potent forwards who consistently hit the scoreboard. We also need some more smaller lockdown defenders, as Jetta is declining at a rapid rate and we have noone else bar Lockhart.

It's definitely the best list we've had for a decade or so, but best of last 50 years? Nup. Sorry.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,462]

I assume if we lose this weekend, the thread title will be changed to "Current team potentially worst in 50 years".

[Binmans PA 26,225]

13 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Cant remember the last time the club have have had such a powerful trio as Gawn/Trac/Oliver.

We have been starved of truly elite players over the decades, but now we have a few.  The skys the limit if LJ and Pickett become as good as they promise....   but as it always does it will  depend on the coaching staff as to any success we have.

In my life time (33 years), it's certainly the strongest midfield group we've had. Oliver's the best player in a Melbourne jumper I've seen and certainly the best midfielder by quite a stretch. But now that Trac has come along, in tandem with a ruckman that has already been crowned AA three times, this team certainly has the greatest spread of potential and talent that we've had through the club in 30 years.

That definitely speaks volumes for our lack of success over that time, given this group have not made a Grand Final yet, let alone won one, but the overall list and in particular our mids, are starting to enter the prime of their careers (age and experience wise). Let's hope Goodwin and co can get the potential out of them like they have the last two rounds.

We definitely need more pace forward of centre and more elite ball use forward of centre, but Melksham and Fritsch could hold the keys there. 

But I agree with SWYL on this occasion, in regards to actually achieving something. It's all well and good to have potential (which to be fair is what you're talking about in the OP), but it's converting that potential to the ultimate success of a flag that's what counts.

5 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

Like many, I need to see a body of evidence before I am piling credit on this list. What I can say though, after watching the replay again last night, is that the hawthorn game was probably the most complete performance I have seen from this team. We literally dominated every phase of the game from contest to defence to marks in forward 50 to forward half pressure to defensive structure. Every part of the game. The next thing we need to master is consistency.

I'm as up this week as I was down after the Tigers game. I'd like to see us cement this level of play, confidence is a wonderful thing for a team (and a supporter). If they can nail a few in a row like the Hawks they will bring confidence and belief into every action.

On a side note - how good was Langdon?! That bloke can seriously run all day, he was everywhere, providing an outlet, blocking up holes. he is like ANB but with skills and excellent instincts.

This is absolutely the next challenge and what separates the pretenders from the powerhouses.

4 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

You mean like

1994: Jeff Hilton. Paul Hopgood, Dean Irving and Jason Norrish

2000: Daniel Ward, Alistair Nicholson, Matthew Collins, Brent Grgic and Ben Beames

Exactly. Our current midfield walks into both of those sides, IMO. 

3 hours ago, The Chazz said:

Obviously this year is a strange year.  Period.  But what I think it is showing is that some of the sides that have had an extensive period of sustained success, ie Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney, and to some degree St Kilda, they are at the end of their era, and the years of being up at the top and not bringing if top end talent, as well as trying to plug gaps with older players to keep them up there, is finally starting to bite them.

GWS, Collingwood and West Coast haven't really brought anyone in to keep them up there, and their list has enough quality on it to keep them dangerous.  That said, their respective lists are starting to age.  These clubs are approaching an interesting time - do they keep topping up (like the teams in the first paragraph), or do they have a 2-3 year mini-rebuild and launch again?  I can't see Collingwood doing that.

A side like North is showing that they, like many other clubs, have been desperate to show some success, and have also tried to plug gaps with established players from other clubs.  All that has done is kept them in that "around the mark" area of the finals race, meaning they have also not bottomed out and picked up those high draft picks.  Fremantle are probably in this boat too.

You look at sides like Carlton, Brisbane, Gold Coast and us who have been down the bottom for a long time, built lists with top draft picks, and now are starting to see how those kids are stacking up.  That's not to say us, or any of those teams I mentioned, are going to be powerhouses, but if any of them got their list management and development right, it's a perfect time to be coming in to the start of that famous "premiership window".

While I'm not as positive as the OP just quite yet, I am confident that if we have got things right, that we will have an extended period of finals footy, where we regularly finish in the Top 4.  Time will tell.

Great post.

[The Swimming Dee 1,858]

2 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

I think it was part way through the Bailey era that someone like Voss or Matthews labelled us as the next powerhouse of the AFL.  we all know the trouble with getting wrapped up in players potential (Whiteboard Wednesdays anyone?)

It was Paul Roos after we dished out a hammering to Sydney.

This team has achieved nothing yet..I see the potential but sustained success is a difficult thing to achieve. I am hopeful though

[Deemania since 56 6,165]

3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We've beaten 7th, 11th and 14th on the ladder so far.

 

Thud!

[Sir Why You Little 34,589]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

 

But I agree with SWYL on this occasion, in regards to actually achieving something.

It’s all about attitude now.
How much do the Players and Club really want to chase success?

i am quite happy we have a tough draw, we will see what we really have got in the next month. 
 

Jeelong “clicked” in 2007 and kept going, no reason why we should not do a Similiar thing, IF the Club is ready to accept nothing but 100% effort weekly

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[Binmans PA 26,225]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s all about attitude now.
How much do the Players and Club really want to chase success?

i am quite happy we have a tough draw, we will see what we really have got in the next month. 
 

Jeelong “clicked” in 2007 and kept going, no reason why we should not do a Similiar thing, IF the Club is ready to accept nothing but 100% effort weekly

I think it's on the players now and a combination of coaching and sporting luck.

[deelusions from afar 1,613]

3 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

It was Paul Roos after we dished out a hammering to Sydney.

This team has achieved nothing yet..I see the potential but sustained success is a difficult thing to achieve. I am hopeful though

That happened too but there was something from Matthews or Voss on a different occasion.  So many false and premature dawns!

[Sir Why You Little 34,589]

1 minute ago, A F said:

I think it's on the players now and a combination of coaching and sporting luck.

The players will drive it, sure. But the attitude must permiate through the whole Club, as it did with both Checker and Smith. 
Attitude is a serious state of mind

[Binmans PA 26,225]

9 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

It was Paul Roos after we dished out a hammering to Sydney.

This team has achieved nothing yet..I see the potential but sustained success is a difficult thing to achieve. I am hopeful though

Voss definitely said it too. Not sure about Roosy, but Voss did.

Not the greatest of sources but... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/next-powerhouse.736782/

 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Emotion is usually a pretty poor adjudicator and that goes both ways.

We weren't that bad two weeks ago and we're not that good now.

Our form line is actually pretty consistent. We snuck past two middle tier teams in Carlton and GC, struggled against two good sides in Richmond and Geelong and then pantsed a struggling Hawks. 

[Dees2014 2,377]

15 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

I like the optimism! And I don't see any reason to strongly disagree when you lay it out like that, BUT, I do think we are lacking the kind of forward line that rivals the the top teams for now. As it stands, we are pinning our hopes on Weid, Fritsch, Kozzie and perhaps Jackson and Sparrow to be that forward line and those targets we are so genuinely lacking right now.  It's a big ask of such a young group, and there are no guarantees they'll all rise to the task. We hope like nothing else they will though.

Good post.

I agree on our current forward setup: that is why l have strongly argued for Weid, Jackson AND TMac to be played in the same team, at the expense of one of our running mids, probably Harmes. One of the beauties of Jackson is that he can play key position or mid field. We haven’t had that for many years. It allows our immensely talented mid field to do their own thing!

[The Swimming Dee 1,858]

20 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

That happened too but there was something from Matthews or Voss on a different occasion.  So many false and premature dawns!

I am now remembering that it was Voss who said it, you are correct Deelusions

[Nasher 33,068]

4 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We've beaten 7th, 11th and 14th on the ladder so far.

 

The higher you are on the ladder, the more you tend to beat teams below you.

[Lord Travis 10,178]

33 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The higher you are on the ladder, the more you tend to beat teams below you.

Jeez no wonder we've struggled for the past 18 months then!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,586]

I'm less interested in potential than I am seeing that translated into actuality.  That said, I do have high hopes that we are building towards becoming a champion team.

2018 was a small teaser of what I think the team is capable of.  When you look at how we played towards the end of that season, I thought we had a team that was capable of beating any other.  In my view, the preliminary loss was at least partly the result of playing like our season depended on it for every proceeding game for the last 6 or 8 games prior to the prelim, playing on the eagles home deck and them having earnt the weeks rest prior to playing us.  For us to truely deliver in September, which is the only thing which could set the current side as being better than any that came before it in the past 50 years, they need to put together a consistent season and finish top 4. 

When you look at the age profile of our key mids, they are now at a point where they have mature bodies and could really start to dominate the best midfeilds in the competition on a regular basis, so I don't think we are too far off what we can become.  Many teams win premierships without necessarily the best key forward, but most have a pretty solid defense, so I think we are doing ok in these respects.  The other thing I think our list currently has is pretty good depth - there isn't a fit player on it for us that I would have a concern in playing, including the Wagners if required to fill in and play a role (could be pretty important across the next 4 games).

I was ok with writing off 2019, but have been a bit disappointed by our faltering start to 2020.  I do think we have been hurt more than most by the interrupted start to the season (Essendon debarkle included) and shortened games, but that only goes so far.  To me our performances over the next 4 weeks will show if we are ready and capable of delivering on our potential.  For me the pass mark is winning 3 or 4 out of the next 5 games, i.e. beat at least 1 or preferably 2 of the in-form sides of Brisbane, Port and Collingwood without getting smashed and totally by any of them and putting away both of the two bottom sides of Adelaide and North.  Do that and I'll start to believe we are on our way.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter