What to do with Nathan Jones

[forever demons 1,854]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Add 6 players and dispense with the whole rookies thing.  Make them full list players.

I year contracts as the clubs see fit too ... 2 year deals for the top 36 draft picks.  After that,  a player takes what he can get.  So lists of about 50 is my call.

We're looking at about an extra million per club per year but the whole process could be done incrementally.  The clubs & the AFL could find a way.

But we're dealing with an AFL that are poor custodians and they too often have got their eyes set on the $$$$'s.

Thats the problem the afl (Gill)looks at the bottom line not the game or players,if the  afl did we would rightfully have a tassie team

[Lucifers Hero 37,207]

32 minutes ago, Macca said:

Add 6 players and dispense with the whole rookies thing.  Make them full list players.

Just for info:

The only difference between a rookie and a full-list player is the length of the contract and the size of the pay packet.  Rookies can play AFL from day 1 without waiting to be upgraded for a LTI.  We have a 'combined' list of 47 players.  39 full-list (are allowed 40) and 8 rookies (have forgotten how many are allowed). 

 

I feel we have the depth in numbers just not sure the depth of ability is there.  Other clubs have as long a list of injuries as ours but suspect they have better quality depth eg Richmond, Pies.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Macca 16,173]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Just for info:

The only difference between a rookie and a full-list player is the length of the contract and the size of the pay packet.  Rookies can play AFL from day 1 without waiting to be upgraded for a LTI.  We have a 'combined' list of 47 players.  39 full-list (are allowed 40) and 8 rookies (have forgotten how many are allowed). 

 

I feel we have the depth in numbers just not sure the depth of ability is there.  Other clubs have as long a list of injuries as ours but suspect they have better quality depth eg Richmond, Pies.

It's more about the overall and the greater good ... the extra players won't add to the quality either.  More so playing games from a squad perspective rather than a best 22

Gawn to play 18-19 games per year for instance.  Regardless of how good his form is. Not written in stone but as a real option. 

It's hard for even the best players to be at their best every week in today's footy so spelling a player for a week every now and again is not such a radical move.  So to do all that the clubs need bigger lists.  In some other sports around the world players are given good amounts of rest ... baseball pitchers,  soccer players,  NBA players,  running backs in the NFL etc etc.

AFL players in the veteran stage (Jones) was where this conversation originated.  Bigger lists allow clubs to keep the veterans around (in theory)

I was thinking it was a total of 44 so thanks for the correction on that LH.  So 52-53 is more the case then.  All full list players with various contracts.

Players are now required to run up to 15ks (or more) in an endurance/collision sport played on a weekly basis with loads more congestion these days.  It's any wonder we see so many injuries.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Macca

[Sigil 965]

They have made a change with Jonesey and I hope it keeps going well for the team.

24 disposals today and some really good kicks (and more kicks than handballs).

[Big Carl 333]

3 minutes ago, Sigil said:

They have made a change with Jonesey and I hope it keeps going well for the team.

24 disposals today and some really good kicks (and more kicks than handballs).

Still uses the ball better than a lot of his team mates.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

6 minutes ago, Sigil said:

They have made a change with Jonesey and I hope it keeps going well for the team.

24 disposals today and some really good kicks (and more kicks than handballs).

Importantly a few really good decisions going inside 50 in the first quarter. That's what you need from a captain, hope Viney took note.

 

[DeeSpencer 23,293]

His best kick of the day was a lovely change of direction and hit up to Tommy Mc early in the 2nd who spilt a soda. I worry his legs aren't always getting him out of trouble, he doesn't spoil with any real technique and the lack of confidence to kick the penetrating kick to May on the switch just before half time was a worry. Overall though he looks capable enough to get another year as back flanker who might fall out of the side. He also had a crappy preseason, no reason with a better preseason with the team healthy around him he can't get better next year. 

[Moonshadow 16,346]

15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

His best kick of the day was a lovely change of direction and hit up to Tommy Mc early in the 2nd who spilt a soda. I worry his legs aren't always getting him out of trouble, he doesn't spoil with any real technique and the lack of confidence to kick the penetrating kick to May on the switch just before half time was a worry. Overall though he looks capable enough to get another year as back flanker who might fall out of the side. He also had a crappy preseason, no reason with a better preseason with the team healthy around him he can't get better next year. 

Sounds like 2/3 of our side DS!

[picket fence 15,366]

Well, I have been a Jones fan and I really like the way he has slotted into Half Back. has played well there now in two games and if he has a full preseason next year well give him first option. I also thought Lewis into midfield was very good and he responded with a good first half!

Edited July 7, 2019 by picket fence

[Binmans PA 26,294]

Been critical of Nathan for a long time. I'm on record as saying he shouldn't have played on in 2019, but today, besides a single errand handball, he was very good.

I hope we give him a decent send off in Round 22 against Sydney, because he certainly shouldn't play on next year. Make Gawn the captain and if he's up to it, give Jones a mentoring role in the FD.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

I respectfully disagree.

Nathan Jones deserves at least 1 or even 2 more AFL seasons.

He should retire when he is ready to do so. It is important for club culture that we look after our veterans and treat them with the respect they deserve. Nathan Jones was the small glimmer of light during the dark days from 2008 until 2013.

We have a history of mistreating veterans. Such as James McDonald, Adem Yze, Cameron Bruce and even Brad Green.

James McDonald could of played over 300 games for the Demons and certainly Adem Yze could of too. Cameron Bruce could of played well over 250 games for us and Brad Green could of played another season or two.

I genuinely hope Nathan James plays over 300 games and beats David Neitz's games record.

I also hope Nathan Jones get a chance to play in a winning Melbourne Demons Premiership in either 2020 or 2021.

 

Nathan Jones truly deserves it. He is a legend of our club and deserves to be treated like one.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Supreme_Demon

[binman 38,776]

I have been really impressed with his game in the last 4 or so weeks since he has gone to the half back position. His kicking and decision making has been excellent.

He is quote attacking on often takes on the diagonal kick across the center lane that creates goal scoring  options. 

He also is quite calm with the ball in hand and prepared to hold onto it rather than just dish off which often just creates problems (hibbo does it a bit). Neat side step too.

[Little Goffy 12,726]

Jones is a player who has adapted and improved his game in response to changing circumstances or evident deficiencies a number of times over his career, I wouldn't put it past him to use the coming preseason to really target particular points of his game to improve what he can offer in a new role.

With a clear plan over the preseason, I'd back him to still be of real, best-22 value next season. Certainly I think it would be a mistake to ditch him ealry, when he clearly wants to keep going and clearly is the type to accept a realistic appraisal of what it will take for him to be appearing at AFL level once the team is back in form.

[whatwhat say what 19,277]

remains one of our best players

[Demon Dynasty 15,737]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I have been really impressed with his game in the last 4 or so weeks since he has gone to the half back position. His kicking and decision making has been excellent.

He is quote attacking on often takes on the diagonal kick across the center lane that creates goal scoring  options. 

He also is quite calm with the ball in hand and prepared to hold onto it rather than just dish off which often just creates problems (hibbo does it a bit). Neat side step too.

All good points Bin.  There was a critical intercept contested play in the match against the Dockers back of the square also where Jones found a side step through traffic and busted the game open through the middle.   Pretty sure it resulted in a goal and a slight cushion at the time for some breathing space.

Weighted averages from the last 3 rounds also confirm your observation about recent form...up 3% on last season's average score.  Might have found a bit of a niche at HB (allows Fritsch to go forward also?)...

*Number in parenthesis denotes number of matches played in this block.

[Pennant St Dee 11,351]

Last month says, he stays on for 1 more year.

Lewis will be gone end of season and 2020 IMO will be Jones last year

[Thehardtackler 785]

I think Jones could play for another year or two, maybe half forward flank. He is invested in the club and that is important for the other players to see! He is probably too slow to be played in the midfield or the back line now.

[Redleg 37,906]

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Last month says, he stays on for 1 more year.

Lewis will be gone end of season and 2020 IMO will be Jones last year

Well you are likely to be close, as he doesn't look like playing more than 1-2 more years.

He will certainly play on next year.

[Pennant St Dee 11,351]

20 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Well you are likely to be close, as he doesn't look like playing more than 1-2 more years.

He will certainly play on next year.

That's pretty much what I'm saying he's been good of late since they moved him off the wing.

Chunk is a warrior, I think many forget how he was almost a one man band in the pre Roos years

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

Detouring a little, I really do think we could have used Bernie Vince on occations this year.  I know he lost some pace last year, but I think he really could have been used to very good effect in our forward line this season with his strength, footy smarts and good goal kicking.  It really does irritate me that the never really tried moving Bernie forward last season to se if it could have worked.  Perhaps we would have won a few more games by now and would still be chasing a remote chance of finals if he was still on our list this season. 

To me that highlights what a mistake it would be for Jones not to play next year.  Our list is pretty sparce of mature experienced players and if managed right, I think guys in this age bracket still have some significant things to conttibute.  Asides from half back, I think Jones could be used up forward (he's a pretty decient kick for goal) and would still be handy to use in bursts to keep another strong, big bodied midfeilder around the ball when necessary  (saw how handy Lewis was in that capacity).  Even Luke Hodge still seems to be able to keep a spot in a Brisbane side which is traveling pretty well this year and I think Hodge has a few years on Jones.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[dazzledavey36 49,002]

24 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Detouring a little, I really do think we could have used Bernie Vince on occations this year.  I know he lost some pace last year, but I think he really could have been used to very good effect in our forward line this season with his strength, footy smarts and good goal kicking.  It really does irritate me that the never really tried moving Bernie forward last season to se if it could have worked.  Perhaps we would have won a few more games by now and would still be chasing a remote chance of finals if he was still on our list this season. 

To me that highlights what a mistake it would be for Jones not to play next year.  Our list is pretty sparce of mature experienced players and if managed right, I think guys in this age bracket still have some significant things to conttibute.  Asides from half back, I think Jones could be used up forward (he's a pretty decient kick for goal) and would still be handy to use in bursts to keep another strong, big bodied midfeilder around the ball when necessary  (saw how handy Lewis was in that capacity).  Even Luke Hodge still seems to be able to keep a spot in a Brisbane side which is traveling pretty well this year and I think Hodge has a few years on Jones.

Bernie was finished at the end of 2017

He went 1 season too long. As shownlast year he was absolutely cooked.

Edited July 10, 2019 by dazzledavey36

[Fanatique Demon 2,409]

Supreme Demon...  

"James McDonald could of played over 300 games for the Demons and certainly Adem Yze could of too. Cameron Bruce could of played well over 250 games for us and Brad Green could of played another season or two."

If you had written "could have" instead of "could of", you'd have made a really good point.

No offence. Just for credibility's sake. 

[one_demon 826]

Terry Wallace just gave his best twenty two on SEN.  No Jones.  Baker yes.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Grapeviney

[samcantstandya 949]

47 minutes ago, one_demon said:

Terry Wallace just gave his best twenty two on SEN.  No Jones.  Baker yes.

Jones no longer an automatic 22.He is getting decidedly slow. 

[samcantstandya 949]

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 4:53 AM, Fanatique Demon said:

Supreme Demon...  

"James McDonald could of played over 300 games for the Demons and certainly Adem Yze could of too. Cameron Bruce could of played well over 250 games for us and Brad Green could of played another season or two."

If you had written "could have" instead of "could of", you'd have made a really good point.

No offence. Just for credibility's sake. 

Yze  didn't play well towards the end if he had of played 300 it would have been because the club gifted him games.