Melbourne player investigated over alleged assault whilst overseas

[DSP 1,488]

How about the players stay fit, try not get injured and stay the **** out of headlines once the season ends

Its really not that difficult....

Edited December 22, 2017 by DSP

[rjay 25,093]

31 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

I'll wait for more information, especially in the current climate of the '#metoo' movement where unproven or flat out false allegations have ruined the lives of many men.

 

 

13 minutes ago, demon-4-life said:

Lol. Oh dear.

because the lives of women have never been ruined by men have they? Or gone unnoticed or uncharged. 

I think the pay gap between genders is a simple example of women's lives STILL being ruined by men. 

I always thought that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

The old 'traccattack' may be his usual colourful self with his turn of phrase but maybe you might want to look at how your post reads.

[binman 43,813]

2 minutes ago, ding said:

Name a single job where i can get paid a higher wage just for being male... For exactly the same work.

Just one will do.

Nah, didnt think so.

SJW claptrap.

Professional tennis player. Professional golfer. Television presenter. To name just 3 of which is really an endless list. I won't bother providing links but there is plenty of data on this topic if you want to have quick search online. If you are not interested in changing your opinion don't bother doing those searches. 

[ding 5,126]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Professional tennis player. Professional golfer. Television presenter. To name just 3 of which is really an endless list. I won't bother providing links but there is plenty of data on this topic if you want to have quick search online. If you are not interested in changing your opinion don't bother doing those searches. 

So not one wage paying job then. Like i said, SJW's can not provide a single example of what i asked. 

Name ONE job where my wage is higher for just being male.

Name a single defined-wage job where i get more just for being male, for doing exactly the same thing.

Just one.

Nah, again i didnt think so.

 

 

[Ouch! 2,266]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

Professional tennis player. Professional golfer. Television presenter. To name just 3 of which is really an endless list. I won't bother providing links but there is plenty of data on this topic if you want to have quick search online. If you are not interested in changing your opinion don't bother doing those searches. 

Not to mention most CEO's who salaries tend to be declared and therefore it's pretty simple to determine gender pay, let alone % of CEO's who are female.
Gender pay equality will exist in those jobs where the pay rates are determined through an award structure, but we digress here

[faultydet 7,619]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

Professional tennis player. Professional golfer. Television presenter. To name just 3 of which is really an endless list. I won't bother providing links but there is plenty of data on this topic if you want to have quick search online. If you are not interested in changing your opinion don't bother doing those searches. 

Can i ask if there is a list that contains a pay gap for jobs where the employers income is the same?

Sport can easily attract different amounts, based on who generates the most money for the employer. Thats why local cricketers are not paid the same as the Test Team. 

Is there a plumbing company that pays women less for the same job?

Bulder? Electrician? Salesperson? Dental Assistant? 

I can say for sure it doesn't happen in my game of Coal Mining. Same work, Same pay

 

Interested to hear info on this, because I sure can't think of any.

 

[Ouch! 2,266]

3 minutes ago, ding said:

So not one wage paying job then. Like i said, SJW's can not provide a single example of what i asked. 

Name ONE job where my wage is higher for just being male.

Name a single defined-wage job where i get more just for being male, for doing exactly the same thing.

Just one.

Nah, again i didnt think so.

 

 

The issue is exactly as you point out tho.... in a 'non-defined' wage structure there is inequality, of course it doesn't exist in a defined-wage structure!!! professional sports I realise is defined through sponsorship dollars amounts etc...

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ouch!

[bandicoot 1,395]

19 hours ago, Demonland said:

Please no naming of "potential" players until confirmed in the media. All posts with unsubstantiated potential player names will be deleted.

Why cant we speculate names? This is an internet forum which holds as much weight as a conversation at a pub. This isn't a news publication. 

[Moonshadow 17,677]

SJW, Lefty, alt-right, greenie, feminista, etc..... the labels of the closed mind

Lol!

[faultydet 7,619]

2 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Not to mention most CEO's who salaries tend to be declared and therefore it's pretty simple to determine gender pay, let alone % of CEO's who are female.
Gender pay equality will exist in those jobs where the pay rates are determined through an award structure, but we digress here

I think many of us would agree that the old boys network at CEO level sucks.

But the thing is, CEO salaries are set by Boards, and are not subject to gender equality tests, but more likely biased by what private school you went to.

[ding 5,126]

4 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

The issue is exactly as you point out tho.... in a 'non-defined' wage structure there is inequality, of course it doesn't exist in a defined-wage structure!!! 

And there is inequality of amount of work performed which explains the majority of the gap. Women dominate part time work

Work less = earn less, thats not inequality.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ding

[Demonland 73,161]

Just now, bandicoot said:

Why cant we speculate names? This is an internet forum which holds as much weight as a conversation at a pub. This isn't a news publication. 

Because it is a public forum and I don't want to be sued. End of story. You can speculate elsewhere.

[faultydet 7,619]

2 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

Why cant we speculate names? This is an internet forum which holds as much weight as a conversation at a pub. This isn't a news publication. 

Because rumours can have the site owners taken to court for defamation.

I like this site and would hate to see it close down

[What 18,810]

40 minutes ago, demon-4-life said:

Lol. Oh dear.

because the lives of women have never been ruined by men have they?

 

 

Of course they have, when did I say otherwise?

Congrats,  you just got offended over nothing. 

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

37 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

vegas?

Try Crown Casino. 

 

[Nasher 33,617]

2 hours ago, CBDees said:

Not sure whether we shouldn’t take the same approach that St Kilda took with Milne. If he is first 22, then keep him on the list, so that the Club itself is not punished for something that (allegedly) occurred outside of the Club’s season or control.

What? Hell no. The club's position should not vary depending on how good the player is.

The club has a difficult decision to make. If facts come to light that suggest the player is in real trouble, he should be sacked immediately, or at the very least, stood down. If it's one of our better players, tough luck. The club simply cannot be seen to overlook an alleged sexual assault just because the accused is good at footy. That's exactly the kind of societal attitude that needs stamping it. It doesn't matter who you are or what your status is: it just isn't acceptable.

[monoccular 17,575]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

I'll wait for more information, especially in the current climate of the '#metoo' movement where unproven or flat out false allegations have ruined the lives of many men.

 

 

44 minutes ago, demon-4-life said:

Lol. Oh dear.

because the lives of women have never been ruined by men have they? Or gone unnoticed or uncharged. 

I think the pay gap between genders is a simple example of women's lives STILL being ruined by men. 

To both of the posters above --  as far as we are all aware, this is as of today, an allegation, as of today totally unsubstantiated.

Not even in the hands of any police force......no investigation......no charges..........no hearing.

How about waiting and watching without pre-judging?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,970]

4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

To both of the posters above --  as far as we are all aware, this is as of today, an allegation, as of today totally unsubstantiated.

Not even in the hands of any police force......no investigation......no charges..........no hearing.

How about waiting and watching without pre-judging?

Exactly.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

The issue with that is your hanging the player with out him being found guilty of any charges.  It isn't up to the AFL or MFC to be law enforces outside of the game.

 

Look what happened to Wayne Carey. There are code of conduct issues even if he doesn’t get wrung through the  justice system. Depends how bad the optics and trust issues are.

Edited December 22, 2017 by america de cali

[binman 43,813]

25 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Can i ask if there is a list that contains a pay gap for jobs where the employers income is the same?

Sport can easily attract different amounts, based on who generates the most money for the employer. Thats why local cricketers are not paid the same as the Test Team. 

Is there a plumbing company that pays women less for the same job?

Bulder? Electrician? Salesperson? Dental Assistant? 

I can say for sure it doesn't happen in my game of Coal Mining. Same work, Same pay

 

Interested to hear info on this, because I sure can't think of any.

 

Well if there is an award there is an award. So yes a man or woman doing the same job will be paid the same rate under that award. The issue then becomes promotional opportunities. i'll bet there are very few female senior managers in coal mining.

One of the best examples of this disparity is primary schools. Teachers are paid the same amount under their award and women vastly out number male teachers. But the majority of principals are male. Go figure.

Edited December 22, 2017 by binman

[What 18,810]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Well if there is an award there is an award. So yes a man or woman doing the same job will be paid the same rate under that award. The issue then becomes promotional opportunities. i'll bet there are very few female senior managers in coal mining.

One of the best examples of this disparity is primary schools. Teachers are paid the same amount under their award and women vastly out number male teachers. But the majority of principals are male. Go figure.

Could it be that - shock horror - the best people are being hired for the job?

Or do you want us to be like America with the abomination that is affirmative action, where people aren't employed on merit?

[ding 5,126]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Well if there is an award there is an award. So yes a man or woman doing the same job will be paid the same rate under that award. The issue then becomes promotional opportunities. i'll bet there are very few female senior managers in coal mining.

One of the best examples of this disparity is primary schools. Teachers are paid the same amount under their award and women vastly out number male teachers. But the majority of principals are male. Go figure.

3

That male principle gets paid EXACTLY the same money as a female in his position would be paid. 

If businesses could save 15% on their wage bill, every male in Australia would be sacked tomorrow.

I work part time.... guess what?, the full time women at my work earn more than me. IMAGINE THAT !!!

Gender pay gap is a myth.

[demon-4-life 467]

6 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

To both of the posters above --  as far as we are all aware, this is as of today, an allegation, as of today totally unsubstantiated.

Not even in the hands of any police force......no investigation......no charges..........no hearing.

How about waiting and watching without pre-judging?

Let me use 2 examples:

I once stole a picnic bar from a milk bar when I was 12. The store owner saw me and ran after me until she gave up. A crime was committed, but no charge no report. It still happened. This sums up the #metoo movement. It happens, but people don't speak up enough and just accept it.

Second scenario. in that same scenario, the Milk bar owner calls the cops to make a statement. The cops tell her, there isn't much we can do. There's no footage, it's your word against his. This sums up the Bali incident.

now let's replace me stealing a picnic bar with groping, sexually assaulting and a bunch of other vulgar terms. Let's assume there was no media. No one would hear about it. No "facts". 

Sooooo let's defend the "alleged" perpetrator. We're never going to find out the "facts". 

I know there can be false claims. I know I'm sounding self righteous right now. I'm doing so because I can easily count over 10 of my friends who have been groped, raped, drugged who haven't spoken up about it due to being horrified at the responses of "your skirt was really short" or "you shouldn't have drunk that much" or "why didn't you push him away". 

Or..."you had a lot to drink, are you sure that your memory is right? Make sure you get the FACTs right." 

This is the last I'll post on this topic. I just feel people need to think about the likelihoods.

This girl may have come forward in private about seeing what can be done about an incident overseas to hang some player out to dry and made it all up.

She also could have been sexually assaulted. 

Which do you think is the more likely? 

 

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

This will be challenging for the MFC.

We need to start with two key principles:

• Protection and support of the victim to get justice and recovery from the incident; and
• The presumption of innocence until proven guilty for the player concerned.

Sometimes these two principles seem at odds, and all involved have to juggle these.

Once the legal and moral aspects of the case have been resolved, we then get to how the club responds.  Can they ‘sack’ the player when what they (allegedly) did was during time off, overseas etc?  Are there clauses for ‘disrepute’ or similar in contracts?  Should they have variable rules for their response based upon the profile of the person involved and their ‘importance’ to the club in 2018?  What processes can they put in place around support, training , ‘punishment’, reparation, etc for the individual, if they are proven to be guilty?  At what point in the ‘scale’ of potential actions does this shift from a ‘minor’ to a ‘major’ infraction?  All of these are critical questions that will determine how the club responds, what they want to try and achieve, and how their response will be perceived.

The club has done nothing wrong so far.  They are left now with a series of challenging circumstances in which to respond.  I hope the board is meeting and making some clear process decisions regarding how they will respond, so the MFC can do so quickly and competently in line with the club’s values as things in this story are made known or resolved.

 

 

[daisycutter 29,743]

36 minutes ago, Nasher said:

What? Hell no. The club's position should not vary depending on how good the player is.

The club has a difficult decision to make. If facts come to light that suggest the player is in real trouble, he should be sacked immediately, or at the very least, stood down. If it's one of our better players, tough luck. The club simply cannot be seen to overlook an alleged sexual assault just because the accused is good at footy. That's exactly the kind of societal attitude that needs stamping it. It doesn't matter who you are or what your status is: it just isn't acceptable.

well unless you were in the same bed i'm not sure where your facts are going to come from