VFL GRAND FINAL - CASEY SCORPIONS v FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Just now, mo64 said:

Spot on DS. Aside from Bont, if you included one or two of their onballers in our team, they wouldn't make a huge impact on our W/L column. It's how they're coached and how they operate as a team which makes the difference. It's also their mindset during the game that we should be envious of.

They're explosive (my new favourite word) as are Sydney.

I noticed the Jack was explosive, even when he was effectively standing still the way he would shimmy and swivel his hips to create space.

[Dante 2,739]

We went in to this game looking like we were playing another home and away game and they went in to it treating it as a grand final, that was the difference.

Unfortunately some of my favourite Melbourne players showed today that they will never take the next step and they will always be a little off the pace in games that matter.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,551]

Just now, mo64 said:

Spot on DS. Aside from Bont, if you included one or two of their onballers in our team, they wouldn't make a huge impact on our W/L column. It's how they're coached and how they operate as a team which makes the difference. It's also their mindset during the game that we should be envious of.

good point.

I was just saying to a Bulldogs supporter that GWS gave the Dogs a lot of space and maybe next week they would suffer some hard tags. The problem is other than Bontompelli there is no obvious player to tag.

In reality their game plan is very high risk but so far it is paying dividends. (Helped by generous interpretations of the throwing the ball rule.. but good luck to them.)

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Good, glad that's over.

Now they can start making the delistings and we can get on with the off season.

[SaberFang 7,151]

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

Spot on DS. Aside from Bont, if you included one or two of their onballers in our team, they wouldn't make a huge impact on our W/L column. It's how they're coached and how they operate as a team which makes the difference. It's also their mindset during the game that we should be envious of.

I noted last night that they made plenty of disposal mistakes throughout the game, but they always had a teammate or two nearby to mop up (and the other teammate would then shepherd out opposition players from laying tackles).

I haven't seen our players play for each other and cover teammate's mistakes so ferociously in ... ever? I do see Hogan cracking the shits a lot when he doesn't get handed the ball on a silver platter though (as evidenced by his idiotic abuse of Kent for not kicking an impossible 70m bomb to him from the wing -- pull your head in Hoges).

It's all about attitude sometimes.

[daisycutter 29,605]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Who said you could climb on my bandwagon? You forgot to mention pace.

one attribute at a time, red, but yes pace and some other things too

disposal and pace skills are two good ones because in most cases these are not things that change much with development unlike some other attributes

[Akum 2,660]

53 minutes ago, mo64 said:

What's the point of keeping someone on the list that is borderline VFL standard, and clearly not AFL standard? There's got to be dozens of mature aged ruckmen in the country that have a better skillset than Spencer.

Agree. Spencer can match Minson physically, but he simply gave up front position to Minson for the whole game. Then if the tap went to the front - which it invariably did, even if Spencer won it - Minson was able to get his body in the way and protect their mids and make it easier for them to get it out, or tackle our mids when they tried to get it clear. 

The fact that Spencer let this happen the whole game is a big concern about him.

The fact that Plapp let it happen the whole game is no less of a concern, not to mention that he didn't try Kielty, who's a different type of player to Spencer & the Big O.

[Adam The God 30,136]

42 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

good point.

I was just saying to a Bulldogs supporter that GWS gave the Dogs a lot of space and maybe next week they would suffer some hard tags. The problem is other than Bontompelli there is no obvious player to tag.

In reality their game plan is very high risk but so far it is paying dividends. (Helped by generous interpretations of the throwing the ball rule.. but good luck to them.)

I think our game plan is far more high risk than the Bulldogs one. They might turn it over via hand occasionally, but usually their numbers around the ball will prevent a goal scoring opportunity off the back of these errors. 

Our game plan currently is all based around pressing and fast waves attacking forward, but on the counter at Etihad we get murdered every time, but we don't have any other gears. 

And here's one of my pet hates for 2016. For the life of me, I cannot understand why our coaches have failed to work out how to safeguard balls going over the back of contests at half back. When we kick long to a contest at half back or the opposition does, we consistently have either too many players up at the contest or too many flatfooted. While conversely, the opposition hit these contests at speed. We never have one or two anchors out the back of the contest either. The anchor(s) would prevent the opposition from getting it over the back and out into space.

What's more mindboggling about this oversight is that we made a very similar tweak to our wider defensive 50 system in the second half of this season. We now play an anchor, either Frost or Hunt and occasionally one of the McDonald's at the back of a triangle-like defensive set up. It's the same idea. It means we have extra back up in case the ball gets out the back. You'll note we use our two quickest defenders to ensure we can lock it down quickly. But why have we not addressed this problem in contests at half back?

I hope we'll see more of these tweaks applied as our younger guys develop, but it's been glaring all season at AFL level and Casey were caught out in an identical manner a number of times today. And frustratingly, you can see it coming from a mile away. It's poor coaching, IMO.

Edited September 25, 2016 by A F

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mustn't be an avid reader of match day threads     

Only did it once.......Never again

[manny100 1,503]

The dogs are a hard at it contested ball and spread system based team and it is working at both AFL and VFL level. No coincidence that Macca was at the Cats and the Bullies while they were developing. We have the hard at it contested ball winners and he (and other coaches)  are teaching the insiders to spread, run and give off. Most insiders come out of TAC cup with little spread skills. We are likely at least a couple of seasons behind the dogs.

[dees189227 12,373]

Went today and came home feeling the same way I do when melbourne lose. Still the same stuff, not manning up properly horrible kicking and still cant win at Etihad. 

That 3rd quarter we got smashed. Scored nothing, zilch. They just ran and played on more and we couldnt keep up. 

Dunn just continues to bomb the ball out then start pointless melees and Maxy was there today and god help us if he ever goes down. Spencer is no back up. 

Anyway back to the drawing board. 

[Pipefitter 2,151]

I'm never going to Etihad stadium again. 

Sad to watch trenners today. He's just not going to get back to where he was as a rookie.

[P-man 13,366]

Was tough watching Trenners today.

[daisycutter 29,605]

8 minutes ago, P-man said:

Was tough watching Trenners today.

agree it was tough watching. I suppose if you are 2 years outof the game and off your legs,  then have a limited pre-season you are bound to be at your worst at the end of a long season on a fast track like etihad in good conditions. I know that sounds like an excuse but it is a fact. Still I have doubts he will get back to afl level for today's game style.

[dees189227 12,373]

In Trenners defense at least this pre season he will be able to join in and do a full one and be able to run. I won't write him off yet. 

[DeeZee 7,363]

Thought Dunn was good today I'd  keep him on the listalong with Oliver who was great and Weideman , ANB,Kennedy and Hulett.

Trengove gets another year, but after today it's over for Garland ,Grimes, Michie, Newton , Terlich and Spencer.

[picket fence 17,071]

2 hours ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Unlike some of you guys, I reckon the list managers would use more than 30 minutes of bad football to make their decisions going forward. These same guys are the ones who got Casey to a GF in the first place. Admittedly this kind of fade out is all too familiar.

Yeah, But most are not AFL Standard and guess what else?? When the pressure was really on they all went to water! Like they do when playing in Seniors

Trengove WTF did we give him another year??

Grimes The worst disposal in the league

Michie, Newton, Terlich, M Jones , Spencer, ANB  insipid! Not even sure Kennedy's up to it

Garland finished and I have been lauding Lynden Dunn but today shizennnn

BIG CLEANOUT PLEASE!!

Edited September 25, 2016 by picket fence

[bandicoot 1,395]

41 minutes ago, manny100 said:

The dogs are a hard at it contested ball and spread system based team and it is working at both AFL and VFL level. No coincidence that Macca was at the Cats and the Bullies while they were developing. We have the hard at it contested ball winners and he (and other coaches)  are teaching the insiders to spread, run and give off. Most insiders come out of TAC cup with little spread skills. We are likely at least a couple of seasons behind the dogs.

Macca??? The bulldogs success is 100% the result of beveridge and his improved clarkson model. 

I have no doubt that if beveridge coached Melbourne 3 years ago then we would have been more successful 

[spirit of norm smith 16,304]

Spencer - please get rid of him ... pathetic. Go to Freo.  Get me Hannath in exchange.

Garland - trade to the Lions.  Keep Dunn. 

Matt Jones, Terlich, Michie, Newton & Grimes are all gone.

Bring in Barlow as a DFA.

Get me more pace and skill.  

[boydie 655]

11 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Spencer - please get rid of him ... pathetic. Go to Freo.  Get me Hannath in exchange.

Garland - trade to the Lions.  Keep Dunn. 

Matt Jones, Terlich, Michie, Newton & Grimes are all gone.

Bring in Barlow as a DFA.

Get me more pace and skill.  

I don't get the love for Hannath just because he trained with us like 5 years ago in the preseason.

To me, him and Spencer are no different, Hannath has done absolutely nothing at Fremantle.

Considering Neeld was the one who was keen on him, I'm incredibly confident that missing him was blessing considering the other talent that Neeld brought in during his reign of terror.

[chook fowler 19,447]

47 minutes ago, P-man said:

Was tough watching Trenners today.

It was worse watching Grimes

 

[Dee1987 277]

The 1 year contracts for Trengove and Spencer seem to be last Chance Saloon for them, if they have much the same year in 2017 they are done with the MFC. 

Grimes- never rated this guy too slow and very poor disposal it was on show today on a number of occasions, Farewell

Terlich, Newton, Michie, White- Farewell

Dunn- Been a solider but just an average player best of luck at Lions

Garland- Still got 2 years on his Contract but will probably be kept for Insurance, 2017 will mainly be with Casey.

Some much needed pace and kicks needed over off season 

[mo64 5,853]

52 minutes ago, manny100 said:

The dogs are a hard at it contested ball and spread system based team and it is working at both AFL and VFL level. No coincidence that Macca was at the Cats and the Bullies while they were developing. We have the hard at it contested ball winners and he (and other coaches)  are teaching the insiders to spread, run and give off. Most insiders come out of TAC cup with little spread skills. We are likely at least a couple of seasons behind the dogs.

Not this crap again. Beveridge has totally reformed how the Dogs play since he took over. In 2015, they were a high scoring attack focussed team that were easy to score against. In 2016, they are the best defensive team. In essence, they are a different team from 2015 to 2016. This has got nothing to do with the time that McCartney was there. 

McCartney might be good at developing individual players, but he was a failure as a coach. 

The game is constantly evolving. To suggest that we'll reach the level of the Dogs, simply because McCartney is a development coach is fanciful.

[chook fowler 19,447]

Need to off load Dawes and the Prince as well.

[Dee1987 277]

19 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

Macca??? The bulldogs success is 100% the result of beveridge and his improved clarkson model. 

I have no doubt that if beveridge coached Melbourne 3 years ago then we would have been more successful 

Macca created the list, bevo just bought in a different game style which the playing group embraced, if Bevo coached Dee's 3 years ago we probs would still be where we are now there list was better at the time we have undergone many changes still some to come, dogs list has just cruised along nicely