CASEY SCORPIONS v SANDRINGHAM

[What 18,810]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

It depends on what draft 'experts' you read

As others have said, Cook was a reach at pick 12.  Nobody expected him to go there.  I remember that draft well, although I wish I didn't.

It was a questionable call at the time, no surprise it didnt work out.   But hey at least it wasnt his worst effort, Cale Morton at pick 4 will never be topped.

[FarNorthernD 5,848]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

It depends on what draft 'experts' you read

C'mon Saty, as a fanatical demon supporter you know that Cook was a fair reach. By most he was never considered first round

[deanox 8,676]

10 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

As others have said, Cook was a reach at pick 12.  Nobody expected him to go there.  I remember that draft well, although I wish I didn't.

It was a questionable call at the time, no surprise it didnt work out.   But hey at least it wasnt his worst effort, Cale Morton at pick 4 will never be topped.

Cook was worse than Morton. 

 

Morton was widely touted as top 5 and had a fantastic start to his career. Maybe he was never going to make it. Maybe his attitude was not up to it. But a couple of injuries combined with a loss of confidence and a particular coach didn't help. 

Cook should never have been picked that high. 

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

15 minutes ago, fndee said:

C'mon Saty, as a fanatical demon supporter you know that Cook was a fair reach. By most he was never considered first round

Some had him towards the end of the first round, mainly based on the AA selection I had watched him, he lookef ok   think issue with him turned out to be between the ears

[Earl Hood 5,789]

1 hour ago, Deespicable said:

Saty,

I remember the draft well as it came a year after Prenderghastly had chosen four exciting midfielders, one of whom was Jordan Gysberts at pick No.11.

Why we chose to go four midfielders that year is why he (Prenders) and we (as supporters) became the laughing stock of the comp. Daniel Talia was rated the best forward that year and we chose to ignore him - he's turned into a rather handy defender.

The next year Barry decided to show his amazing knowledge by going with the best tall forward and he was kinda hoping Tom Lynch might still be available but he went to GC at pick No.11. When that didn't eventuate he gambled on a player whom many felt would go about pick 30. Laughter ensued at other clubs!

To his credit Prenders did nominate Tom Mc that year - one of only two picks that he ever got right in his five years of abject failure - big Max being the other!

 

Prenders had about the same hit rate in the draft as if MFC had picked me off the street as I was walking past during the draft period and asked me to make the calls.

However I would back myself on the early picks to have got a better outcome, go for the player with some aggro, with some size and demonstrated leadership. On those criteria you would pick Darling over Cook, DMartin over say Trengove, Wines over the Toump etc to name a few. 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,618]

7 hours ago, deeko said:

I wouldnt like to be a key forward developing at Casey. Almost impossible to judge the high wind. 

Loving Kieltys (no idea how to spell it) game he has been great! 

 Does anyone else think Kielty reminds them ofStrawbs  O'Dwyer?

He and Pedersen did fantastically after Spencil had to go off.

[Dante 2,562]

39 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Some had him towards the end of the first round, mainly based on the AA selection I had watched him, he lookef ok   think issue with him turned out to be between the ears

Why would you even try to defend such an obviously bad selection? Do you just like to be contrary and argue for the sake of it, anyone with any knowledge of football knows he was a massive failure and it wasn't between the ears it was simply a lack of ability.

 

[rjay 23,931]

6 hours ago, old dee said:

Unfortunately four of those are VFL quality players, Two have been shown they will not figure in the senior team, which leaves Oliver and Bugg with the possibility of inclusion in the senior team in next few weeks.

I think Trengove is still in the mix 'old dee', I wouldn't write him off just yet. He really looked the class player on the ground to me...

[Dante 2,562]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think Trengove is still in the mix 'old dee', I wouldn't write him off just yet. He really looked the class player on the ground to me...

I think one of Trenners or Grimes will be at the club next year, maybe both, but if it's one I'd say it will be Trenners. I'd say the club will give him a chance to do a pre season to see how he comes up. 

It would be strange to have him on the list, injured, for the last two years and now he's finally fit, cut him. They gave him a one year contract when they knew he probably wouldn't play much, if any at all. 

[rjay 23,931]

6 hours ago, martin said:

Am I the only one concerned about Weideman?

 

5 hours ago, olisik said:

I am also concerned. Very Lucas Cook at the moment...is barely having an impact at the moment.

 

5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Bit early to be hitting the turps, or are you having a lend?

 

5 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

The Weed is fine.  The last couple of weeks have been shocking conditions for tall forwards.  He's not getting clean ball no the lead and he's still too slight to hold his own in the packs.  Give him a nice clear day with decent conditions where the mids can deliver the ball quickly to him and he'll kick a bag. 

 

5 hours ago, Deespicable said:

I must be a B+ troll too because I've watched Weed a few times this year and I'm starting to get worried as well.

He has a nice leap which I've seen at times, but his speed and ground skills have been below par and it is his lack of work off the ball that has seen Hulett go past him.

His decision to not go with a banana kick from an angle today made me worry that he does not have the smarts for this level - given the way the wind was blowing, his attempt was the equivalent of playing a wood out of a bunker and being surprised it didn't have enough height to get out.

Certianly I'm not about to make a big call and say he won't make it because he does have a leap and clearly does not have a body yet to hold his ground, but I've seen enough of him to know that he's got a lot of work to do next year. He missed a lot of last year injured so maybe he's still finding his feet.

As to Olisik's Lucas Cook's comparisons, clearly the Weed has already shown more, but then again Cook was elevated to No.12 pick on the back of Prederghastly's judgement. So maybe they are tracking about the same given the lesser expectation on Cook.

Watched him a bit today and he got involved a bit up the ground which was good. Agree with 'Ralph' that the conditions, wind in particular have not been great the last couple of weeks for a tall forward. Particularly a light, inexperienced one.

I saw a couple of things today that showed me why he has been rated highly within the club. He did some pretty heavy bumping and blocking work in aerial contests that showed some good footy smarts and if he was a bit stronger he would have converted those efforts himself but he at least opened things up for his teammates.

I've said on numerous occasions that I don't fully believe in the talls take longer mantra. I think if you are going to make it as a tall (unless you are a ruck) you will play senior footy early and show a little. Our 2 tall sections this year have a bit of a let off as they have missed a lot of footy over the last year or 2.

Having said that I think we may see Hullett get a run at AFL level by the end of the year and I would expect both to have pushed into the senior side next year.

[Moonshadow 16,275]

Can anyone name one club that said they would have taken Cook in the first round? Most of the creditable draft watchers had him 25+. Terrible pick.

He was a stab in the dark by a recruiter that didn't know which end of the knife to hold.

[Mach5 4,482]

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Saty,

I remember the draft well as it came a year after Prenderghastly had chosen four exciting midfielders, one of whom was Jordan Gysberts at pick No.11.

Why we chose to go four midfielders that year is why he (Prenders) and we (as supporters) became the laughing stock of the comp. Daniel Talia was rated the best forward that year and we chose to ignore him - he's turned into a rather handy defender.

The next year Barry decided to show his amazing knowledge by going with the best tall forward and he was kinda hoping Tom Lynch might still be available but he went to GC at pick No.11. When that didn't eventuate he gambled on a player whom many felt would go about pick 30. Laughter ensued at other clubs!

To his credit Prenders did nominate Tom Mc that year - one of only two picks that he ever got right in his five years of abject failure - big Max being the other!

 

 

Dumb luck as he chose Tom to be a back-up ruckman in the Leigh Brown mould.

[monoccular 16,206]

Did Hulett make a case for a run next week, maybe ousting Dawes?

[goodwindees 2,119]

Every time I look at Weideman, I see Michael Newton. Same build with those broad shoulders, same running gait.  I am also worried that Weideman, like Newton is just a straight line, mark & kick player.

Seems to lack agility, lateral movement & aggression. 

Gee, I hope I'm wrong. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by goodwindees
Typo

[Jaded No More 58,356]

11 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

Every time I look at Weideman, I see Michael Newton. Same build with those broad shoulders, same running gait.  I am also worried that Weideman, like Newton is a straight line, mark & kick player.

Seems to lack agility, lateral movement & aggression. 

Gee, I hope I'm wrong. 

I just vomited in my mouth! 

Like Lucas Cook and the previous drafting blunders in this thread weren't enough, now Newton makes an appearance. 

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

6 hours ago, mo64 said:

Cook wasn't an Under 18 All Australian. He was picked in the TAC Cup Team of the Year, and was not considered a 1st rounder, let alone a top 10 pick.

Firstly, Cook was the AA CHF. 

I have always seen this pick as a bit of a panic move from Prendergast.  He was clearly counting on getting Lynch which would have been awesome, but nobody in their right mind expected him to reach us at 12.  We should have taken the best available at this point, but he was invested in using our first pick on a partner for Watts and so he went for a guy who looked great on paper even if those who saw him play didn't rate him all that highly. 
 

For reference, the phantom drafts didn't rate him at all highly.  The Herald-Sun had Brisbane taking him at 25. The Australian only did the first 25, but he wasn't in it and Knightmare had us taking him with pick 50. 

 

Also an interesting point, Tom Lynch wasn't in the AA side at all.  Every man and his dog rated him the best tall forward in the draft. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by RalphiusMaximus

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Prenders had about the same hit rate in the draft as if MFC had picked me off the street as I was walking past during the draft period and asked me to make the calls.

However I would back myself on the early picks to have got a better outcome, go for the player with some aggro, with some size and demonstrated leadership. On those criteria you would pick Darling over Cook, DMartin over say Trengove, Wines over the Toump etc to name a few. 

And end up with Luke Molan.....

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

44 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

And end up with Luke Molan.....

...who is entirely blameless for the unprecedented run of bad luck and injury which prevented him from ever showing us why he was drafted in the first round. 

Seriously, get another example, that one is completely inadequate to demonstrate your point. 

[Pates 9,537]

40 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

...who is entirely blameless for the unprecedented run of bad luck and injury which prevented him from ever showing us why he was drafted in the first round. 

Seriously, get another example, that one is completely inadequate to demonstrate your point. 

Yeah Molan is just one of those hard luck stories. Never given a chance with injury and if memory serves before he joined Melbourne he had never had a single serious injury in his life. 

He was cursed. 

Cook's issue's seemed to be between the ears, unwilling to take the next step in professionalism. That said we were a joke of a club at the time with development, we were a graveyard of failed careers due to woefully poor development. I don't buy that it was all Prendergast's/other recruiters fault, the amount of high draft picks we got points to the fact we were never able to get these players to AFL quality. 

I haven't seen any of Weeds but I trust that we have an infinitely better structure in place for nurturing young players so I'm confident that they will be able to push in over the next pre-season into that top 25-28 players who are in selection consideration. He's only in his first year. 

[CBDees 3,162]

10 hours ago, Deespicable said:

 

To his credit Prenders did nominate Tom Mc that year - one of only two picks that he ever got right in his five years of abject failure - big Max being the other!

 

Do you really think that picking up TMac with our fourth pick at pick 53 was a display of strategic insight? To me it was a random bit of luck considering he had just picked up (the highly-rated?) Troy Davis at pick 50, three selections earlier!

[Demonland 65,686]

SCORPIONS DISCOVER THEIR FRIEND, THE WIND by KC from Casey

The Casey Scorpions managed the windy conditions far better at home against Sandringham than they did a week ago against Footscray and the result was a resounding 46 point victory that saw them hold second place on the ladder a game behind Williamstown but with a game in hand.

In stunning contrast to their efforts a week earlier, the Scorpions kept the Zebras down to a single point in two quarters against the wind as they dominated the stoppages despite the early loss to injury of giant ruckman Jake Spencer. In his place Cam Pedersen and red-head Declan Keilty were given the responsibility of taking on the Sandy tall brigade and they did so effectively. 

They were in total control and allowed their on ball teammates to decisively win the contests at ground level thanks in part to two Demons - Tom Bugg and Ben Kennedy - who were emergencies over in Perth and made the trip back in time to take part in the game. The Scorps were also well served by Jack Grimes, Jack Trengove, Vic Michie, Ben Newton and hard nosed youngster Clayton Oliver who turned 19 during the week.

They dominated early into the wind scoring 3.4.22 to trail by a mere three points at the first break and turned that into a 19 point lead at half time. From there, they withstood a Sandringham fight back which was mainly achieved through some long goals against the tide of play and aided by the strengthening wind because Casey's midfield continued to win the contests and control the football. The unlikely hero up forward was defender Dean Terlich whose move into attack reaped a four goal reward for coach Justin Plapp. Terlich had a partner in crime in Angus Scott who was damaging all over the ground and chipped in with a couple of goals.

The unsung heroes in the back line were experienced pair Colin Garland and Lynden Dunn who provided the steel to keep the opposition forwards at bay even when the strong wind made the job of the defenders difficult.

The Scorpions ran away with it in the ended to  double the Zebras' score and give themselves a much needed percentage boost. 

Casey Scorpions 3.4.22 6.9.45 7.13.55 12.20.92

Sandringham 4.1.25 4.2.26 7.4.46 7.4.46

Goals 

Casey Scorpions Terlich 4  Hulett Scott 2 Grimes Michie Newton  T Smith 

Sandringham Shenton 2 Cook Delaney Lee O'Kearney Templeton  

Best

Casey Scorpions Michie Kennedy Bugg Garland Grimes Terlich

Sandringham Simpkin Lee Shenton Answerth Saunders O'Kearney

Statistics

Tomas Bugg 1 behind 22 disposals 7 kicks 15 handballs 1 mark 13 tackles 102 dream team points

Lynden Dunn 16 disposals 12  kicks 4 handballs 4 marks 1 tackle hit 61 dream team points

Colin Garland 25 disposals 15 kicks 10 handballs 4 marks 2 tackles 83 dream team points

Jack Grimes 1 goal 1 behind 31 disposals 18 kicks 13 handballs 3 marks 6 tackles 1 hit out 117 dream team points

Liam Hulett 2 goals 1 behind 13 disposals 10 kicks 3 handballs 4 marks 55 dream team points

Ben Kennedy 1 behind 30 disposals 13  kicks 17 handballs 3 marks 3 tackles 92 dream team points

Viv Michie 1 goal 33 disposals 18 kicks 15 handballs 10 marks 1 tackle 125 dream team points

Ben Newton 1 goal 1 behind 22 disposals 7 kicks 15 handballs 2 marks 2 tackles hit outs 72 dream team points

Clayton Oliver 1 behind 26 disposals 7 kicks 19 handballs 5 tackles 2 hit outs 83 dream team points

Cam Pedersen 1 behind 19 disposals 11 kicks 8 handballs 5 marks 11 tackles 18 hit outs 127 dream team points

Joel Smith goals behinds disposals kicks handballs marks tackles hit outs dream team points

Jake Spencer 3 disposals 3 handballs 1 mark 2 tackles 7 hit outs 24 dream team points (injured) 

Dean Terlich 4 goals 13 disposals 8 kicks 5 handballs 3 marks 4 tackles 80 dream team points

Jack Trengove 1 behind 29 disposals 13 kicks 16 handballs 4 marks 3 tackles 91 dream team points

Sam Weideman 8 disposals 1 kicks 7 handballs 1 mark 2 tackles hit outs 28 dream team points

Mitch White 17 disposals 9 kicks 8 handballs 5 marks 58 dream team points

A big win to the Casey Scorpions Development League team today. Maxy King kicked three goals and the team is now a definite finals chance.

AFL Victoria Development League

Casey Scorpions  5.7.37 7.9.51 12.10.82 15.11.101

Sandringham 0.0.0 4.2.26 4.3.27 8.5.53

Goals 

Casey Scorpions Max King 3 Di Pasquale Freeman Fritsch Stockdale 2 Baker  Ferreira  Salem Wilson
 
Sandringham Dobosz 3 Hayes Iudica McLaren Uthayakumar  Wilkins 

Best

Casey Scorpions Wyatt Fritsch McInerney Kennedy-Harris J McDonald Max King

Sandringham Verma Hayes Hooy Grace Dobosz Wilkins

[MadAsHell 4,088]

A few things on the game/discussion.

1.Although i'm sure he'll be delisted at years end, i thought Michie was very good today. Very clean and on a few occasions showed an ability to get some outside ball which has been a knock on him.

2  Also thought Kennedy was very good. Won several contested balls and was able to extract it out of packs with cleanliness and easy. He'll be a very good depth player over the years i suspect.

3. Hulett will play senior football this year. Probably the last two rounds like we did with Oscar last year. They'll probably get him to play the forward/2nd ruck role. His improvement as the season has gone on has been impressive.

4. Those concerned about Weideman need to relax. The fashion he started the season in was on par with Jesse Hogan's VFL season. He's missed a lot of football over the last 12 months and as others have said, the conditions combined with a long season are probably just getting to him at the moment. I expect he'll re-find some form by finals.

5. We need to draft Declan Keilty. Probably use a 3rd round pick to ensure we get him. Guy is a younger and better version of Pedersen. Can play back, forward or as a very capable undersized ruck. He could be the ruck reinforcements we need.

6. Those saying we stuffed up taking Cook at Pick 12 (i agree with you there) as none of the experts had him going that high and also saying we stuffed up taking Trengove before Martin and Toumpas before Wines. You can't have it both ways. All the experts had Trengove going before Martin and Toumpas before Wines. Find better comparisons eg Gysberts/Talia or Bennell/Sloane.

7. Jason Bennett should replace any one of channel 7's commentators (bar commetti). He's a good caller.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,468]

16 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

You're a B+ troll Olisik

As a matter of interest, which is the worse troll...an A+ or E- troll?  

[old dee 22,930]

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

As a matter of interest, which is the worse troll...an A+ or E- troll?  

An extremely good question I have no idea.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

7 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

...who is entirely blameless for the unprecedented run of bad luck and injury which prevented him from ever showing us why he was drafted in the first round. 

Seriously, get another example, that one is completely inadequate to demonstrate your point. 

Simple fact is he was rated 20-30 by most experts. We took him at 9 because he was 'tough'.

Not sure if you remember seeing him play, but never showed anything of note. Brad Miller showed a lot more from day dot.