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Dom Tyson has to be dropped (Rd 1)


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42 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I've put up with some horrible players over the decades and Dom Tyson isn't one of them.  He made mistakes he wouldn't be proud of, but he also plays where there's the most heat.

I'll cut him some slack in the first game of the year.

There were also many times where if he hadn't been in the right place at the right time, we would have been in big trouble.

It's not that his mistakes aren't important, but the coaches seem to believe so far that the good things he does are far more important than the mistakes.

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2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

Have lots of time for Dom but sorry guys from where i sat (and bro), Dom single handedly turned the momentum of the game yesterday with 3 horrendous disposals/decisions within a few minutes at one stage in the 2nd. You could see the confidence boost it gave the Greater Western Circus boys on the resulting turnovers (some in the worst part of the ground down back) shortly after and how much it deflated our blokes from what was mostly a solid performance until then.

Within a few minutes he missed a number of open targets within 20/30 meters with little/no pressure and in one instance kicked it directly to an opponent about 15/20 meters away from where his target was and he only needed to kick it about 20 meters (or slightly less) to get it to that target. You can accept multiple horrible kicks from a big ruckman or taller developing guy but not one of your higher draft mids on so many occasions.

I would think he is borderline at this point until Brayshaw becomes available or he shows a big improvement. Very slow across the ground and slow at assessing/decision making also. Not unlike Toumpas in this regard, at times allowing opposition to intercept/get to more contests he is kicking to as he tends to telecast his disposals. Nothing instinctive/smart about his footy at this point and looks VFL standard at times. I saw more instinctive/smart footy from our first gamer (Olly) in one half than Dom's entire game yesterday.

I've watched the game twice now and you are kidding if you think his decision making is VFL standard, his work in close was fantastic (particularly the 1st qtr). He did make some poor errors in the 2nd quarter, although I would say only one of them was a real shocker (the 20m kick). Having said that the ball should have gone long from Matt Jones and then Clayton Oliver prior to this anyway as we had a loose on the wing.

Yes, there was a couple of other disposals that weren't as good as they should have been but the other players involved in those passages were just as bad (Oscar McDonald should have still been able to recover and not handball it straight into Shiel,, Frost should have had better awareness etc).

He has his flaws, but he can still be a very good afl player. He has very similar attributes to Matt Priddis, who would have been getting similar questions about his game at the same age. Playing VFL will not achieve anything.

I like Brayshaw and he showed some good signs last year. However, he is fairly overrated on this board. He averaged 12 possessions last year,. I think the fact he somehow came 5th in the rising star (no way he was better than Saad), people have overlooked how poorly he finished the season. Getting 17 possessions in his VFL practice game is hardly grounds for replacing Tyson.

Rant over!

 

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7 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

I've watched the game twice now and you are kidding if you think his decision making is VFL standard, his work in close was fantastic (particularly the 1st qtr). He did make some poor errors in the 2nd quarter, although I would say only one of them was a real shocker (the 20m kick). Having said that the ball should have gone long from Matt Jones and then Clayton Oliver prior to this anyway as we had a loose on the wing.

Yes, there was a couple of other disposals that weren't as good as they should have been but the other players involved in those passages were just as bad (Oscar McDonald should have still been able to recover and not handball it straight into Shiel,, Frost should have had better awareness etc).

He has his flaws, but he can still be a very good afl player. He has very similar attributes to Matt Priddis, who would have been getting similar questions about his game at the same age. Playing VFL will not achieve anything.

I like Brayshaw and he showed some good signs last year. However, he is fairly overrated on this board. He averaged 12 possessions last year,. I think the fact he somehow came 5th in the rising star (no way he was better than Saad), people have overlooked how poorly he finished the season. Getting 17 possessions in his VFL practice game is hardly grounds for replacing Tyson.

Rant over!ain not a mid fielder and

 

Agree his handball decision making is AFL level when in congestion. It's what he does/doesn't do and how much time he takes to decide to do it when out in the open a little and having to kick which is letting himself down. Along with his pedestrian speed over the turf. Cant compare Frost (not a mid fielder ...half as many games) and Oscar (again not a mid fielder and 3 games) to Dom (mid fielder with 50 games ...same as Viney).

You can cover pedestrian speed issues a little if you are super elusive and able to make your own space/time with other sublime agility skills a la G Ablett Jnr, S Mitchell (neither of those pedestrian but referring to their agility which makes the time/space) G Williams (super pedestrian) but i dont see this in Dom's game.....yet.

If you read the context again i'm not saying Dom is a basket case as you infer, what i'm saying is, given his time in the system and the problems discussed he is probably borderline (out of the mids) and may be overlooked for Brayshaw once he is available IF (emphasis on IF) he doesn't improve his present weaknesses (decision making in the open/speed of decision making in the open/accuracy by foot).

I'm sure Roos/Fd will be working on correcting/improving these issues as we write. I see Dom as more of a Josh Kennedy type than a game busting beast in Priddis. A long way to go before he gets there but hoping he can up the ante from here.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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Welcome Dom, to the much vaunted position of Demonland whipping boy. You're in very good company. In fact, with your mates  you might be able to form a 22 all of your own. 

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2 minutes ago, Webber said:

Welcome Dom, to the much vaunted position of Demonland whipping boy. You're in very good company. In fact, with your mates  you might be able to form a 22 all of your own. 

You know things are on the up when Tyson is your whipping boy. 

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8 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

IHe has his flaws, but he can still be a very good afl player. He has very similar attributes to Matt Priddis, who would have been getting similar questions about his game at the same age. Playing VFL will not achieve anything.

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Webber said:

Welcome Dom, to the much vaunted position of Demonland whipping boy. You're in very good company. In fact, with your mates  you might be able to form a 22 all of your own. 

Good call on Priddis, he was one of WC whipping boys for years.

Dom is very strong around the packs and an important player, some disappointing mistakes in the first game but I'm hoping we see him back on track injury free this year.

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9 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

I like Brayshaw and he showed some good signs last year. However, he is fairly overrated on this board. He averaged 12 possessions last year,. I think the fact he somehow came 5th in the rising star (no way he was better than Saad), people have overlooked how poorly he finished the season. Getting 17 possessions in his VFL practice game is hardly grounds for replacing Tyson.

Disagree.  Firstly, he was sub or subbed out in 4 games, so his average becomes 13.76 without those. 

He was never the same after getting concussed in the opening minutes of the West Coast game when he never came back on.

His attack at the contest and around the stoppages was immense.  His goal assists were phenomenal for a first year player.

And you can't compare his year to Saad.  Do you realise how much easier it is to play behind the ball and run around at half-back ?  Chalk and cheese to the role Brayshaw had to play.

Btw, Judd is rightly lauded for his fantastic first year where he was runner up to Riewoldt in the RS.  He averaged 15 possessions.  You're reading far too much into the possessions of a first year player.  Pendlebury averaged 13 in his first year.

If you think Brayshaw is "fairly overrated" I question your acumen.

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16 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

I like Brayshaw and he showed some good signs last year. However, he is fairly overrated on this board. He averaged 12 possessions last year,. I think the fact he somehow came 5th in the rising star (no way he was better than Saad), people have overlooked how poorly he finished the season. Getting 17 possessions in his VFL practice game is hardly grounds for replacing Tyson.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

Disagree.  Firstly, he was sub or subbed out in 4 games, so his average becomes 13.76 without those. 

He was never the same after getting concussed in the opening minutes of the West Coast game when he never came back on.

His attack at the contest and around the stoppages was immense.  His goal assists were phenomenal for a first year player.

And you can't compare his year to Saad.  Do you realise how much easier it is to play behind the ball and run around at half-back ?  Chalk and cheese to the role Brayshaw had to play.

Btw, Judd is rightly lauded for his fantastic first year where he was runner up to Riewoldt in the RS.  He averaged 15 possessions.  You're reading far too much into the possessions of a first year player.  Pendlebury averaged 13 in his first year.

If you think Brayshaw is "fairly overrated" I question your acumen.

 

Agreed. He will quickly cement his place in the 22 once he has had a fair run at it with some consistent time on field (ie., enough games under his belt and a decent tank). Brayshaw has sublime skills, combine this with decent agility and the ability to create time and space both for himself and those around him. A great gift to have in today's game where it is often dominated by super athletes who can play a tad. Brayshaw can also tackle like a bull as we have all witnessed. Much to learn and no world beater but defintely in our top 22. Had him ranked at 17 in 2015 based on (weighted) selection of average stats last year up to Rnd 17.

The top 5 in those averages were Vince, Jones, Cross, Garland and TMac in that order.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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Matt Jones just took Tysons role. Would be interested to see Roos try playing Tyson one out like Hardwick does with Cotchin and see how he goes one on one.

Edited by olisik
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11 hours ago, ProDee said:

Disagree.  Firstly, he was sub or subbed out in 4 games, so his average becomes 13.76 without those. 

He was never the same after getting concussed in the opening minutes of the West Coast game when he never came back on.

His attack at the contest and around the stoppages was immense.  His goal assists were phenomenal for a first year player.

And you can't compare his year to Saad.  Do you realise how much easier it is to play behind the ball and run around at half-back ?  Chalk and cheese to the role Brayshaw had to play.

Btw, Judd is rightly lauded for his fantastic first year where he was runner up to Riewoldt in the RS.  He averaged 15 possessions.  You're reading far too much into the possessions of a first year player.  Pendlebury averaged 13 in his first year.

If you think Brayshaw is "fairly overrated" I question your acumen.

You have basically agreed with what I have said. He was not the same after the West Coast game which is my exact point. As that is an additional 8 games he played with very limited output, he should need to earn his place in the team, similar to how he demanded a spot in round 1 last year. 17 possessions in a VFL practice match is a similar form line to his end to the season.

Yes, I think he will be a very good player, however if we were a half decent team he would have been dropped last season. He now needs to earn his way back into the team and there are many players who will go before Tyson. He may well come back into the team this week and I wont be disappointed if he does, but it won't be at Tyson's expense. 

If it's so easy to do what Saad does, then why haven't we had a player capable of doing it like he does in the last 5 years? 

I won't enter into the Judd, Pendelbury conversation as the game was played very differently 10 years ago and my very vague memory has Judd being tagged from early in his 1st season.

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On 3/26/2016 at 8:18 PM, picket fence said:

Nup cannot agree at all with this!!

Gets it and plays his role! Occasional mistakes I can live with because he has appetite for the contest and the ball!

Then it means nothing that he lead our Clangers per game count last year! Completly under whelming so far for the Demons and was amongst our worst on Saturday

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7 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

You have basically agreed with what I have said. He was not the same after the West Coast game which is my exact point. As that is an additional 8 games he played with very limited output, he should need to earn his place in the team, similar to how he demanded a spot in round 1 last year. 17 possessions in a VFL practice match is a similar form line to his end to the season.

Yes, I think he will be a very good player, however if we were a half decent team he would have been dropped last season. He now needs to earn his way back into the team and there are many players who will go before Tyson. He may well come back into the team this week and I wont be disappointed if he does, but it won't be at Tyson's expense. 

If it's so easy to do what Saad does, then why haven't we had a player capable of doing it like he does in the last 5 years? 

I won't enter into the Judd, Pendelbury conversation as the game was played very differently 10 years ago and my very vague memory has Judd being tagged from early in his 1st season.

I don't seem to recall you making any point about the West Coast game and his subsequent output.  You said he was "fairly overrated" and I completely disagree.  I thought the polish he displayed in his first year around the contest was elite for a rookie.

And you won't convince me that someone freewheeling in the back half is ever as difficult as a player competing around congestion.  That's not to say it isn't valuable, or he didn't do it well, but it's far easier playing behind the ball.

To say that Brayshaw was fairly overrated suggests you don't value what he was able to do in his first year. 

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I think we tend to forget that Don is still young and has played just 51 games.....He was injured for quite a bit last year

Vs GWS

17 possessions

2 Goal assists

11 Pressure acts

2 Clangers  

Edited by Bossdog
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Tyson has a different personality to the other mid-fielders. He is a bit stand-offish.

They still need time to gel as any good team does.

All good teams can second guess where their mates are moving to, where they want the ball directed etc. This is Dom's biggest weakness, he is not a natural team player. Probably a star junior who did it all himself.

Hopefully he matures into a team player, I don't think dropping him to the seconds will do anything positive for his development, in fact given his struggle to be team oriented it would probably be a negative and only serve to isolate him more.

They need time to grow as a team.

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22 hours ago, olisik said:

Matt Jones just took Tysons role. Would be interested to see Roos try playing Tyson one out like Hardwick does with Cotchin and see how he goes one on one.

Matt is much more an outside runner than Dom. Not comparable at all IMO. Unfortunately for Dom his good stuff goes unnoticed and his howlers really stand out. He will be a really valuable player for us 

 

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53 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

Tyson has a different personality to the other mid-fielders. He is a bit stand-offish.

They still need time to gel as any good team does.

All good teams can second guess where their mates are moving to, where they want the ball directed etc. This is Dom's biggest weakness, he is not a natural team player. Probably a star junior who did it all himself.

Hopefully he matures into a team player, I don't think dropping him to the seconds will do anything positive for his development, in fact given his struggle to be team oriented it would probably be a negative and only serve to isolate him more.

They need time to grow as a team.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Dom was captain of Trinity and then the Chargers and has been touted as a leader from day 1, so to say he's selfish and a bit stand-offish is a little bit unfounded in my opinion. i liken him to a wicket-keeper - you don't notice him when he's doing well but he drops one and all of the sudden Matt Wade is a Test Cricketer again.

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With the ball he wasn't that bad today aside from missing 3 goals (which was 2 really as the 3rd miss was a follow up to the 2nd). Defensively he was part of a midfield that had rings run around it. And maybe as the slowest member of that midfield he is most to blame. But the blame should be shared.

I don't think he's getting dropped any time soon. But he'll need to go to half forward more and someone else with some speed will likely have to take up some midfield minutes. 

Tyson was better than Viney and Oliver today.

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90% of the game's really good midfielders would have hit 3/3 or 2/3 of the chances he had in front of goal today. He fluffed all of them which must be demoralising for the team (it certainly is for the fans!). Thank God BenKen was running past him for the last one or it would have been 0/4.

Won't be dropped though, at least he found the footy and he had a dip.

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