The old dark navy blues! ;)

[dee-luded 2,959]

Just on that, why DO Carlton get so many Friday night games?

Just curious, not looking for a gotcha moment or anything.

????? don't truly know, but if the cap fitz, then wear it ?????

[dee-luded 2,959]

Carlton are playing like Melbourne.

nar, they're stalking us, & tripping up over our shadows... where's brock when he's needed.

Wow, who was the genius that gave Carlton four Friday night games in the first eight rounds?

most likely a tv guru genius, who wants a big viewing audience for fridays... maybe they got them from the zoo; friday night @ the zoo.

Clive says 'ello 'to C-7'

Edited May 22, 2015 by dee-luded

[dazzledavey36 54,954]

"Poisonous histories". Give it a break.

It's amazing the amount of history revision that goes on around here about Cameron Schwab.

In the first instance, people who take over dysfunctional organisations are expected to achieve results, not win popularity contests. He might have trod on a few toes at Freo when he took over as CEO of that basket case in 2001 after the club had experienced their worst ever season, sacking their coach mid-year and winning only two games for the year but he immediately

* improved club finances substantially and when he left, the club was considerably stronger in that area;

* the club made the finals for the first time in 2003 winning 14 and losing 8 games in the home and away season. In 2006, the year before he left they made the preliminary final.

It's generally accepted that the period of his tenure laid the groundwork for the power house club that is Fremantle today.

After he arrived at Melbourne, he improved its financial base from $5m in the red to substantially in the black but we know it was the team's poor on field performance that brought the club down and whilst we can argue till we're red and blue in the face about who and what was at fault for that - poor recruiting, poor coaching, "tanking" (which incidentally got Hawthorn and Collingwood to premierships), there's no doubt in my mind that, even though he properly accepted responsibility when he stood down, he's still copping a bad rap from the distorters of history and even from those whose toes he trod on early in the piece and who fought so hard to bring him down. We're still feeling the consequences of that power struggle today.

Now, if you're going to bag Schwab for his performance at Fremantle, why not compare it to what's happening at Melbourne today. In his third season with the Dockers that club won 14 games and lost 9 (including a final). Peter Jackson is in his third season at Melbourne and his continuing appointment for a further season is being hailed by most but we've only won seven games since he came on board. Our coach Paul Roos has notched up six wins from 29 games to date with the benefit of some excellent recruiting and we're mostly satisfied and prepared to give him more time to lift the club. By contrast, Mark Neeld was expected to recruit off the smell of an oily rag while ditching disaffected players and his record from his first 29 games was five wins (the same record as Dean Bailey who lasted almost four years) and by that time the knives were firmly planted in his back and he was on his way out of the door.

I'm not suggesting any sackings or further turmoil but let's not get things out of context when discussing our past history and let's not demean people who worked hard to do their job at the club and remained loyal to the end.

Jack i am a big admire of your work on here and a proud demonland player under your great guidance in the forum matches.

But i have to respectively say your out of wack with this post. Cameron Schwab was cancer to this club and the main reason we have had to play catch even right up to this day. He should never have been brought back to the club in 2008 and should have done the noble thing and taken his hit on the chin and bowed out straight after 186 disaster after he was warned by Stynes not one but twice to not interfere in the football side of things. He never listened and love the smell of his own ego.

The guy is a half wit, players hated his guts, Cost Dean Bailey his job, oh and he hired Mark Neeld. His Whiteboard Wednesday were an absolute joke! The blazers idea was a huge laughing stock and made us look like year 7s, Every speech at every function was all about the past history and nothing about the current administration update and figures. He was a blend and boring individual who along with Chris Connelly should never be allowed back at the footy club.

Not only that he was seen with a Freo scarf on at the 2013 grand final trying to tell people that Freo wouldn't be there on the day without him. The guy is an absolute nuffy!

[old dee 23,792]

It is very unfashionable around here

But I feel sorry for blues supporters

They are going through the same crap we have endured for the last decade.

Cursed with a series of management decisions that were looking for the easy way to a premiership.

The management of both clubs has successfully produce playing list that cannot cut it in the AFL.

Both of us are destined now for a long period outside the top eight.

In the modern period it takes a long time to create a good list when you are stating from VFL standard.

I just hope we can beat them later this year.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

This thread has been shite from the start.

This club has had 10 years of irrelevance and we're pointing the finger at Carlton?

Un effen believable.

Edited May 22, 2015 by jumbo returns

[old dee 23,792]

This thread has been shite from the start.

This club has had 10 years of irrelevance and we're pointing the finger at Carlton?

Un effen believable.

I tend to agree jr

Irrelevance is without doubt the absolute bottom

[DemonOX 8,791]

This thread has been shite from the start.

This club has had 10 years of irrelevance and we're pointing the finger at Carlton?

Un effen believable.

Agree JR

U wait we will still be bottom 4 when Carlton passes us.

We have been the worst in the Comp for just about 9 years and have seen GWS, Power and the Dogs pass us on their way up.

No other team knows how to be cap like us and we continue to be experts at it.

Carlton will pass us just like the other teams.

I find it very hard to get any enjoyment out of our club.

They make being a support such a hard thing to do.

Edited May 22, 2015 by DemonOX

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I heard a rumour that Channel 7 pushed for Carlton games on Friday night to play up the Mark Stevens vs Mick Malthouse rivalry. I don't necessarily believe it, but if that was true, someone should be packing up their desk.

[BAMF 4,353]

"Poisonous histories". Give it a break.

It's amazing the amount of history revision that goes on around here about Cameron Schwab.

In the first instance, people who take over dysfunctional organisations are expected to achieve results, not win popularity contests. He might have trod on a few toes at Freo when he took over as CEO of that basket case in 2001 after the club had experienced their worst ever season, sacking their coach mid-year and winning only two games for the year but he immediately

* improved club finances substantially and when he left, the club was considerably stronger in that area;

* the club made the finals for the first time in 2003 winning 14 and losing 8 games in the home and away season. In 2006, the year before he left they made the preliminary final.

It's generally accepted that the period of his tenure laid the groundwork for the power house club that is Fremantle today.

After he arrived at Melbourne, he improved its financial base from $5m in the red to substantially in the black but we know it was the team's poor on field performance that brought the club down and whilst we can argue till we're red and blue in the face about who and what was at fault for that - poor recruiting, poor coaching, "tanking" (which incidentally got Hawthorn and Collingwood to premierships), there's no doubt in my mind that, even though he properly accepted responsibility when he stood down, he's still copping a bad rap from the distorters of history and even from those whose toes he trod on early in the piece and who fought so hard to bring him down. We're still feeling the consequences of that power struggle today.

Now, if you're going to bag Schwab for his performance at Fremantle, why not compare it to what's happening at Melbourne today. In his third season with the Dockers that club won 14 games and lost 9 (including a final). Peter Jackson is in his third season at Melbourne and his continuing appointment for a further season is being hailed by most but we've only won seven games since he came on board. Our coach Paul Roos has notched up six wins from 29 games to date with the benefit of some excellent recruiting and we're mostly satisfied and prepared to give him more time to lift the club. By contrast, Mark Neeld was expected to recruit off the smell of an oily rag while ditching disaffected players and his record from his first 29 games was five wins (the same record as Dean Bailey who lasted almost four years) and by that time the knives were firmly planted in his back and he was on his way out of the door.

I'm not suggesting any sackings or further turmoil but let's not get things out of context when discussing our past history and let's not demean people who worked hard to do their job at the club and remained loyal to the end.

I was curious as to why Fremantle fans hated Scwabb, so I asked them. Here is a thread from 2012.

Cameron Schwab - Why the hate?

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

Jack i am a big admire of your work on here and a proud demonland player under your great guidance in the forum matches.

But i have to respectively say your out of wack with this post. Cameron Schwab was cancer to this club and the main reason we have had to play catch even right up to this day. He should never have been brought back to the club in 2008 and should have done the noble thing and taken his hit on the chin and bowed out straight after 186 disaster after he was warned by Stynes not one but twice to not interfere in the football side of things. He never listened and love the smell of his own ego.

The guy is a half wit, players hated his guts, Cost Dean Bailey his job, oh and he hired Mark Neeld. His Whiteboard Wednesday were an absolute joke! The blazers idea was a huge laughing stock and made us look like year 7s, Every speech at every function was all about the past history and nothing about the current administration update and figures. He was a blend and boring individual who along with Chris Connelly should never be allowed back at the footy club.

Not only that he was seen with a Freo scarf on at the 2013 grand final trying to tell people that Freo wouldn't be there on the day without him. The guy is an absolute nuffy!

You've completely missed my point dazzle (you're not alone btw). Everyone's entitled to their opinions and mine happen to differ with yours and others. The problem is that in many instances people tend to embellish their opinions with what they believe to be the facts but which are unsubstantiated and even false. It's something we see throughout society and its particularly rampant on Demonland with anyone who turns out to become an unpopular figure or a scapegoat for our problems. Take Mark Neeld or Jack Watts who are/were by no means perfect but an urban mythology of demonization has built up around them so that stories that are demonstrably false are accepted as truth.

In the words of American politician and sociologist Daniel Patrick Moynihan:

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."

[Maldonboy38 6,403]

I only saw a little bit of the Blues v Cats game last night, but the Blues are playing very similarly to how we played under Mark Neeld.

If Malthouse was successful at Dogs, Eagles and Pies you would have to suggest that it is the Club of the Blues which is driving the dysfunction. Add their disastrous recruiting - which is possible worse than ours in the Bailey era - and you get the current situation.

But I have to admit to enjoying it a bit - I grew up in the old Carlton zone when the Dees were perennial wooden spooners and the Blues were in the finals or winning flags. Seeing them in this state gives me a deep, satisfying but perverse form of pleasure.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I only saw a little bit of the Blues v Cats game last night, but the Blues are playing very similarly to how we played under Mark Neeld.

I agree, but they are also playing similar to how we have played under Roos as well.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Both clubs have serious attitude problems onfield right now.

The Demons better win for The Rev tomorrow....

Edited May 22, 2015 by Sir Why You Little

[praha 11,240]

I agree, but they are also playing similar to how we have played under Roos as well.

LOL Beat me to it.

Neeld gets the rough end of the stick around here but nothing he did was theoretically any different to what Roos is trying to do.

Newton, vandenBerh are just Terlich and Jones 2.0

Roos has added a bit more experience but ultimately it's the same defensive and disciplined focus structure to turn the club around.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

LOL Beat me to it.

Neeld gets the rough end of the stick around here but nothing he did was theoretically any different to what Roos is trying to do.

Newton, vandenBerh are just Terlich and Jones 2.0

Roos has added a bit more experience but ultimately it's the same defensive and disciplined focus structure to turn the club around.

I don't agree with this part. Michie maybe, but not vandenBerg.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I'd put Riley in that category too.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

2007: Carlton dreadful, Pagan sacked mid season, Carlton lose all remaining games, Carlton "win" Kreuzer Cup.

2015: Carlton dreadful, Malthouse sacked mid season, Carlton lose all remaining games, Carlton "win" Prospective No.1 Draft Pick Cup.

[Adam The God 30,271]

Carlton are about the only other club that have had a worse time of it than us since 2002. We'd have played in more finals than them wouldn't we? That shows you how pathetic they've been too.

[praha 11,240]

Carlton are about the only other club that have had a worse time of it than us since 2002. We'd have played in more finals than them wouldn't we? That shows you how pathetic they've been too.

They were bad 2002-2008 but we have been worse from 07-15, particularly 12-15.

They had the worst record in the 00s of all teams and even though we made the finals 5 years we still had 13th worst record. Shows how bad we were when we were bad.

Edited May 23, 2015 by praha

[What 18,810]

Carlton have a higher average score than us and they have a shocking forward line

Shows how bad our midfield is

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Carlton have a higher average score than us and they have a shocking forward line

Shows how bad our midfield is

Carlscum will pull out of this terminal nose dive

I still wonder whether the MFC will.

After 2 seasons with Roos the club still looks dead onfieild

How hard can it be flogged before a sign of life appears?

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Quite ironic, but they are playing bruise free footy this year! Loving every minute of it!

[monoccular 17,432]

This thread has been shite from the start.

This club has had 10 years of irrelevance and we're pointing the finger at Carlton?

Un effen believable.

I tend to agree jr

Irrelevance is without doubt the absolute bottom

Hold this thread until after we play them - IF we beat them, and beat them well, then and only then can we start to gloat, if that is our fancy.

Until then we are as bad a they are.

I only saw a little bit of the Blues v Cats game last night, but the Blues are playing very similarly to how we played under Mark Neeld.

If Malthouse was successful at Dogs, Eagles and Pies you would have to suggest that it is the Club of the Blues which is driving the dysfunction. Add their disastrous recruiting - which is possible worse than ours in the Bailey era - and you get the current situation.

But I have to admit to enjoying it a bit - I grew up in the old Carlton zone when the Dees were perennial wooden spooners and the Blues were in the finals or winning flags. Seeing them in this state gives me a deep, satisfying but perverse form of pleasure.

And Roos came with not a bad record either.

We need to disprove that it is our "ingrained poor culture" holding us back. Actions speak louder than words (and than Dawes for that matter).

[demon3165 2,724]

Carlscum will pull out of this terminal nose dive

I still wonder whether the MFC will.

After 2 seasons with Roos the club still looks dead onfieild

How hard can it be flogged before a sign of life appears?

Here is a number for you to ring seems you need it, you post the same thing time and time again Call us 1300 22 4636 hope they help.

[Little Goffy 14,579]

Carlton's problems are pretty easy to trace.

Currently, their number one player on this year's AFL rankings is Eddie Betts, who has 26 goals to his name.

Jeff Garlett is our own current leading goalkicker with 15.

Jarrad Waite continues to be Jarrad Waite, but for all the brain fades he still has 13 goals from 6 games.

Best I can figure, they were all moved on because of 'consistency' issues. But Carlton did that without actually having a replacement plan.

Levi Casboult, Tom Bell, Lachie Henderson and Troy Mezel might become a very potent forward line in time, but every one of them would still have had a spot on the field even if the whole lot of Betts, Garlett and Waite were still there.

So much of the talk from disappointed Carlton fans mentions the division between;

- Ratten saying 'our list is limited, we shouldn't sacrifice everything for the top 4, nor do we have the strength to push through a total rebuild without imploding; we should keep patiently developing the team even if it means lurking mid-table for a few more years'.

- Malthouse saying 'I am the greatest coach ever and Daisy will come too and he is awesome, with me Carlton can make it to top-4 within a couple of years are really make a tilt for a premiership... oops... ok, dump everything, I'll need about 8 years.'

And the board liked what they heard from Malthouse.

This also relates to why Carlton may have been given so many friday night games. Not so long ago their forward line was an exciting party for the spectators of BOTH sides, and you could never quite predict how a game would turn out. We all know that TV executives and AFL House are generally at least a year or two behind reality.

Also, the Carlton board have connections, y'know.