Post match discussion - Round 20

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

That's three PSD!!

Yep I know but points for creativity?

[Earl Hood 6,101]

Very gracious of you to join the discussion Earl!

Yes thanks BBO I have been very busy of late, still dealing with the after parties for the Commonwealth Games, there are so many royals and peers to meet and greet in my role as Cultural Attaché (gold coast) for the games.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Earl Hood

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

If we get rid of the [censored] he will no longer polarize opinion. QED.

Really? So when Jack is delivering them lace out to a forward in a finals side and we are all sitting at home watching it on the TV wishing Melbourne were playing finals you don't think this may generate some discussion.

[chook fowler 19,551]

Noticed that our tackles are now hurting the opposition - it's part of the game that has really improved. Jetta and Pigdog are the best but generally most have improved - except Jack Watts. Lewis really had the stuffing knocked out of him.

A real positive I would have thought.

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

Watching the Port-Sydney game, and I've said it before - Watts reminds me of Westhoff. When he's in a good side playing well and using the ball well, i think Watts will be a good player, albeit still hot and cold.

But in our side? No way.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,304]

When the discussion of wishing physical violence on our players has past.

The bloke wasn't even that bad today, but don't let that deter you.

1) who is wishing physical violence on players?

2) when can we start to expect better than "not bad" from our supposedly best/most talented players

[old dee 23,872]

It is that bloody red and blue jumper we never win in it!

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

If you think it matters that Watts was caught grinning for a second after the game, you're a dead set goose. It does not mean he is unprofessional. It does not mean he is not disappointed, or happy with the result. Just because you want to kick the cat when we lose does not mean everyone must.

It was an instant caught on camera. I'd bet money a player on every losing side, every week, has a laugh with the opposition at the end.

I saw David Mundy smile as he shook hands with an opponent after the game. How unprofessional was that?

[Adam The God 30,420]

Noticed that our tackles are now hurting the opposition - it's part of the game that has really improved. Jetta and Pigdog are the best but generally most have improved - except Jack Watts. Lewis really had the stuffing knocked out of him.

A real positive I would have thought.

Disagree. Watts' tackling has improved, just not enough, but don't rob him of some marked improvement. He needs to win more one on ones though. I counted one that he won today. There may have been more, but a couple of weak tackling efforts and a failure to keep his feet cost us goals.

[Adam The God 30,420]

I'm going to continue gushing here, because, hey, we have to look for the positives. One other thing I really liked about Jetta's game today was that when he made that poor skill error and kicked it on the full, he looked filthy on himself. Okay. Many an MFC player looks filthy on themselves when they make an error. I'd hope to see that, so that's merely a start. It's how he proceeded to play after this error that impressed me so much. He didn't go into his shell, he didn't drop his head. He stayed focus and the next time he was near the ball, he crunched an opposition player with a thunderous tackle. It was really pleasing to see him lay another two or three crunching tackles after this moment too. I think this example really bodes well for his future. He appears to be a bloke that continually demands more of himself. It's terrific. He's found his position now. He has such great balance and strength in the hips.

Oh and I really enjoyed that interception in front of Roughead later on in the game. He read it quickly and moved with a blistering burst of speed to get back into the area. His name should be one of the first on the team sheet every week, if he keeps this form up. Well done, Nev. You've really turned your career around. A little credit should probably go to Roosy too, for his faith earlier in the season.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Watching the Port-Sydney game, and I've said it before - Watts reminds me of Westhoff. When he's in a good side playing well and using the ball well, i think Watts will be a good player, albeit still hot and cold.

The Hoff was also much maligned for yeas before things clicked for him.

I do agree with you that Watts would benefit from better teammates. If we had Trav or Yze (or both) in the side he'd regularly be leading out to accurate first time passes instead of making endless leads that get ignored before finding himself in a rolling scrum where he can't use any of his strengths. If we had a HB who had the skill and vision to see him leading out of HF and hit him Watts would be regularly racking up 25+ disposals.

[Adam The God 30,420]

The Hoff was also much maligned for yeas before things clicked for him.

I do agree with you that Watts would benefit from better teammates. If we had Trav or Yze (or both) in the side he'd regularly be leading out to accurate first time passes instead of making endless leads that get ignored before finding himself in a rolling scrum where he can't use any of his strengths. If we had a HB who had the skill and vision to see him leading out of HF and hit him Watts would be regularly racking up 25+ disposals.

I think he needs to improve his marking on the lead. He needs to be stronger, but otherwise, I'd agree with the above, RM.

Edited August 9, 2014 by AdamFarr

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

I think he needs to improve his marking on the lead. He needs to be stronger, but otherwise, I'd agree with the above, RM.

Exactly. Unless he's in 30m of space why would you kick it to him because whilst at times (late last year) he's found some space on leads there's half a chance he either doesn't run through the lead or can't protect the drop with his body. If you don't mark it like a key forward (see Jack Gunston) then you aren't a key forward. So you have to contribute in more aspects. Which means winning contested ball and tackling etc. Watts is a great player. He's just no good with any footy that requires a contest. And Paul Roos' style emphasises contests. The one position where you don't find contests in this game style is the wing. Hence where Roos played him. However if you can't then run all day two ways to defend and attack and find the ball you'll fail there.

I don't know how many times I have to call for Watts to go dominate VFL for him to learn how to be the man and impact games before it has to happen. It would be the best thing for him. Yet I feel the coaches are afraid he'd fail.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,839]

I didn't see the game. 50 points sounds like a fairly predictable margin given where the two sides are at, and it sounds like we had a real dip for most of the game, so that's a +

What really upsets me is that even on a day where we "came to play", so to speak, the margin was still 50 points. It's now 8 straight years (in pre season and real games) that the Hawks have made games against us into men vs boys. It doesn't look like changing any time soon, either. I'm so bloody tired of getting flogged by them (Geelong too).

The other side of my family are all Hawk supporters. Honestly, they don't know how good they've got it.

[What 18,810]

Ever after todays loss I still have optimism about the future and Roos taking us into 2015

Feels strange to say but thats the best 50 point loss ive seen from us, as much as im sick of losing especially to Hawthorn.

I feel the margin deserved to be around 30 points or a bit less, we just blew so many opportunities as usual

Today i believe we unearthed two good players, Barry and Michie. They both stood up against a great unit.

Gawn is about to arrived.

Bring on GWS

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Ever after todays loss I still have optimism about the future and Roos taking us into 2015

Feels strange to say but thats the best 50 point loss ive seen from us, as much as im sick of losing especially to Hawthorn.

I feel the margin deserved to be around 30 points or a bit less, we just blew so many opportunities as usual

Today i believe we unearthed two good players, Barry and Michie. They both stood up against a great unit.

Gawn is about to arrived.

Bring on GWS

HH last week...

2 weeks off and we serve up that rubbish

6 goals vs the Lions in in perfect conditions in our home town

This playing group STILL dont give a [censored] about the club, and the supporters

Makes me sick. Jack Watts zero tackles until the final minutes. Must be traded, he is useless.

And now we can get some more high draft picks to throw down the drain like we do every season. How exciting.,.

I always admire how quickly your feelings for our club fluctuate HH, you're like a 50 year old woman going through a tough hormonal period while also suffering from menopause.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

What I'd actually do is make some positional changes to see if we can get some improved ball movement and stay in the game defensively

- Dom Barry to Brad Hill at either half back or wing

- Cross to Lewis/Hodge or Burgoyne

- Viney to mind Sam Mitchell at stoppages as another learning exercise

- N. Jones, Cross, Tyson, Viney, Michie or Riley (the other as sub) to do the centre square minutes to free up:

- Bernie Vince to half back

- Matt Jones then plays his usual game on a wing

Not all meaning to pump myself up but I was mighty glad we saw a bit of this. Not all of it worked but it was worth a go.

Barry tracked Hill very well for over a quarter. He got away a bit at the end of the second but fair enough, the way the Hawks move the ball and the way Hill runs he's pretty much unstoppable. Matt Jones moved on to him because he was having a shocker, freed Barry up to play half forward and he was ok there. Not sure how far Barry will go as he's very much an athlete who can kick but hey in todays AFL that gets you a fair way!

Michie also learnt a lot about his spread defense I'd say. But he won some ball and clearances. He and Riley might be fighting for a spot but I think the word for that is depth, what a lovely idea! If they can get fit and learn to do different things they can make it as ball winners in the midfield which I'm sure Tyson, Viney and Jones would be pumped about!

Cross at half forward and Vince at half back is a good move for the future I think. If we let those guys add experience to those units and things they badly need (Cross, some hardness and fitness across half forward) and Vince some skill from half back and we can break even in the midfield then we are getting somewhere.

Tackling was good today. Pressure went in and out of the game. Our own ball movement, whilst full of skill errors seemed to have some proper function about it. A mix of fast and slow. Some good switches and patches through the corridor.

I'd say the 4 steps to beat Hawthorn (which Geelong have done more than anyone) are:

- Win the contested ball - Pass

- Rebound out from their forward line pressure - I'd give this an ok. We were never going to do it but we gave it a go

- Test their defenders one on one - not really. But Maxy Gawn gave us something. The likes of Dawes, Frawley, Kent had moments, but too often we could only get it to 60m out

- Mess with their ball movement particularly forcing pressure to them at half back - fail. But there were a couple of patches where we pushed up and hunted them instead of dropping back. A patch in the second quarter threatened circle work and whilst they took the foot off the gas at least we didnt keel over.

[biggestred 5,140]

we went up on the ladder today.

[Guest]

My cat ..and my dog disappear when the footy starts.

Do you attack the alpacas instead?

[Radar Detector 1,347]

There's more than just a little bit of Matty Whelan about Nev Jetta this year. Love the bloke. Has always had a great attitude so it's great to see him playing such good footy.

[watchtheeyes 1,422]

If you have it in you to smile after a performance like that, then you deserve a bashing.

Give me a bloody break, Vince was smiling during the game after acting like a step ladder for poppy. After every game, players from every team smile and talk to each other about what they're up to. This is a beat up, pure and simple. And a pathetic one at that.

[Chook 15,022]

Give me a bloody break, Vince was smiling during the game after acting like a step ladder for poppy. After every game, players from every team smile and talk to each other about what they're up to. This is a beat up, pure and simple. And a pathetic one at that.

The difference is he works his arse off every game. Smiling after a loss is not, in itself, a crime. But when it is yet another symptom of a less-than-serious attitude towards winning and losing, then it DOES become a problem. Or rather, it does indicate a problem.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Chook

[watchtheeyes 1,422]

Not all meaning to pump myself up but I was mighty glad we saw a bit of this. Not all of it worked but it was worth a go.

Barry tracked Hill very well for over a quarter. He got away a bit at the end of the second but fair enough, the way the Hawks move the ball and the way Hill runs he's pretty much unstoppable. Matt Jones moved on to him because he was having a shocker, freed Barry up to play half forward and he was ok there. Not sure how far Barry will go as he's very much an athlete who can kick but hey in todays AFL that gets you a fair way!

Michie also learnt a lot about his spread defense I'd say. But he won some ball and clearances. He and Riley might be fighting for a spot but I think the word for that is depth, what a lovely idea! If they can get fit and learn to do different things they can make it as ball winners in the midfield which I'm sure Tyson, Viney and Jones would be pumped about!

Cross at half forward and Vince at half back is a good move for the future I think. If we let those guys add experience to those units and things they badly need (Cross, some hardness and fitness across half forward) and Vince some skill from half back and we can break even in the midfield then we are getting somewhere.

Tackling was good today. Pressure went in and out of the game. Our own ball movement, whilst full of skill errors seemed to have some proper function about it. A mix of fast and slow. Some good switches and patches through the corridor.

I'd say the 4 steps to beat Hawthorn (which Geelong have done more than anyone) are:

- Win the contested ball - Pass

- Rebound out from their forward line pressure - I'd give this an ok. We were never going to do it but we gave it a go

- Test their defenders one on one - not really. But Maxy Gawn gave us something. The likes of Dawes, Frawley, Kent had moments, but too often we could only get it to 60m out

- Mess with their ball movement particularly forcing pressure to them at half back - fail. But there were a couple of patches where we pushed up and hunted them instead of dropping back. A patch in the second quarter threatened circle work and whilst they took the foot off the gas at least we didnt keel over.

I just don't think Vince has a good enough disposal to be reliable off half back. I reckon this is the role Roos wants to see Toumpas take on in years to come, maybe Trengove as well. You look at how Mitchell came bursting off half back at the centre clearance several times, both Toumpas and Trengove have this in them if they can get right.

How good would it be to have someone like Malceski here for a couple of years teaching these boys, invaluable.

Vote 1 for Malceski and O'Keefe.

[rpfc 28,779]

The difference is he works his arse off every game. Smiling after a loss is not, in itself, a crime. But when it is yet another symptom of a less-than-serious attitude towards winning and losing, then it DOES become a problem. Or rather, it does indicate a problem.

You don't think Watts works hard?

Perhaps you should ask Roos at a presser about the workload that is asked of a HFF in today's game and how much Watts is doing to be in a position to be not kicked to properly in the forward line, to having little help on centre wing, to be pushed off the footy on the HBF.

And you are looking for 'indications'? You have already made your mind up on Watts - this smiling flap is just a selective and sideways argument to hang him further.

[on the outer 19]

The stats were pretty even on clearances, stoppages, contested poss and HOs.

But, Roughhead and Breust score 8 goals between them; Gawn our only multiple goal scorer...

We will no doubt be better when Hogan gets back, but need to recruit one more KPF.