Post Match Discussion - Round 8

[Demon Dynasty 15,627]

We lost because the umpire stuffed up a free, Jones should have run in further, steadied and kicked the goal and finally they simply ran out of legs in the last few minutes. Players were running up and down on the spot at the end and fitness let us down.

Yep....that about sums it up for me.

Just got home. Difficult to stomach but there's a few issues that were found short in today.

• Vince amazing first 2 and a half quarters. A little quieter late in the game.

• Tyson improving by the week. Looking all class and like he has more time than most in our line up. Nice.

• Cross another workman like performance.

• Jones boy needs to work on his disposal at times but in and under. Not great but serviceable.

• Howe was pretty good down back. Terlich too until he got hammered.

• We are carrying a few players.

While Watts improved in patches today he still isn't strong enough (through the legs/core) IMO to enable him to beat or at least match his opponent both in the air and when the ball hits the ground on a one on one contest. He wins some of the time don't get me wrong. But he isn't getting anywhere near a 50/50 split required to break even. He is losing these battles far too often and we are paying a heavy price for it. Yes, he laid a few tackles, ran hard to get to contests, worked his way through traffic tonight and created some good forward momentum passes etc. Good positive signs .But he STILL doesn't appear to have the ability/strength through the core/legs to work himself to the front of a one on one contest, work his opponent off the ball or lead up hard and present. I'm neither a Watts lover or hater and i truly want him to succeeed. But the competitive one on one things in at crucial times in a match are the things you need to be capable of doing if you're going to be successful and REMAIN in a forward role.

Byrnes just doesn't work hard enough when he isn't near the ball or in possession or near the drop of the ball. And he's not doing either of those nearly enough to warrant a spot in this team.

Bail. Tries hard and generally looks ok in patches.......but he just aint getting enough of it or impacting enough around the ground. Needs to work much harder to earn a permanent place in this team.

I would be hoping we can bring in one of the following to replace the last 2 players (Byrnes/Bail) at some point this year IF they earn it at Casey. From either.... Kent, Toumpas, Clisby and or Mitchie. And don't laugh. both Toumpas and Clisby rate much higher possesion/disposal/quality of disposal wise/contested marking etc, based on last years stats at AFL level. And this year Toumpas/Mitchie and to a lessor degree....Kent, also rate higher than Byrnes/Bail.

• We had a few "under done" players tonight. In particular Garland and Jamer. Both completely understandable given their lack of match time to start the season. I would add Byrnes in there as well.....but ...ummm. This hurt us big time in the last 15 minutes or so. I think the game last week may have taken it's toll a little on some of the blokes.

• The CramerFree really hurt us at the worst time.

• There were a number of gettable shots at goal we could have potted throughout the game which would have given us a bit of breathing room. I don't blame our loss on the Matty running miss. Guy ran his guts out all night and spread pretty well to create options, especially in that first half. He also hit up a few good lead up targets earlier in the match for set shots on goal. Played ok and is easily in our top 10 players this year so far IMO.

• Can someone please explain to me why we started Jones in our forward line in the first 10 minutes or so of that last quarter? We were breaking even/winning the middle contest until then IMO. The doggies got the first 2 or 3 out of the middle while he wasn't there and probably the first goal of the last. Quite possibly the "Match Losing" move of the night??

• First time i've seen/heard a really passionate Melbourne crowd all over the ground in a few years. Probably since the last time we beat the Bombers in 2011.

• I really hate losing and i'm so sick of it. That win would have been a sweet addition to last week's effort. Opportunity lost.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Fat Tony 4,447]

Griffen's points come mainly from his 15 tackles. He did some good defensive work but usually he destroys teams offensively. Tonight we managed to quell his offensive influence.

I think Grimes probably won the dual overall, but we missed him in defence, and I would rather see Griffen play a bit better and Grimes play across half-back. I wouldn't play Grimes as a tagger again.

I understand where you are coming from, but Grimes only had 4 effective disposals. If Griffen and Grimes swapped teams the result probably would have been different.

[Demon Jack 6,329]

I thought the dunn crameri match up was all wrong and probably cost us the game in the end.

Dunn is good on the third tall but not the number one target.

Agreed. McDonald probably would've been a better match-up.

[4JacksandaKing 52]

That free against Dunn. M.Jones' running shot on goal. Both should've gone our way. Disappointed....

Yes, the frees, a Dogs supporter rang SEN complaining the 24-13 frees. Terry Wallace replied the 13 Dogs got were more harmful

than the 24 we had. Too true.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

I thought the dunn crameri match up was all wrong and probably cost us the game in the end.

Dunn is good on the third tall but not the number one target.

I agree. We would have been better served to move Frawley back onto him and Howe up forward to give us an alternative marking target. Dunn could have gone the spare defender which is a far better role for him. Making those moves at 3/4 time could have won us the match. Of course, it could also have been a disaster. Hindsight is wonderful, but it's not infallible.

[hardtack 10,127]

Why? does the truth hurt just too much Jnrnmac?

And in fact... you DO need ppl like me to add a bit of "Realism" and "Avante Guard" opinion to this forum!

Don't like it ?? then you need to Bzzzzz of to "Fantasyland Forums" my friend where all is "Hunky Dory" in the world of previous MFC drafting and recruiting and all will agree with just about everything you say!

"Realism" and "Avante Guard"... how does that work??

[Jack7 463]

The last 2 games against the Crows and Bombres,the Dogs had 60 tackles,tonight they had 110!!!---Out pressure Paul Roos and you'll probably win

Can someone tell me why we are putting 20 odd games into Byrnes this year? give those games to Salem FFS and start Byrnes as SUB if you have to him in the side

We really needed Chip on Crameri,at times we need Chip's flexibility to swing.

We won the hitouts,clearances,inside 50's,marks inside 50 but we were soundly out tackled-game over,this game is all about pressure,it's how the Cats almost always beat the Hawks

Vince plays too inside the contest,we have Jones,Viney,Tyson and Cross for that,we need Bernie's outside run more than anything

On a side note,i went and watched Southport V Lions 2's today and sadly Beamer is all but finished,Lepper is playing the younger mids like we should do with Salem over Byrnes!!!

Edited May 10, 2014 by Jack7

[KingDingAling 3,613]

Yes, the frees, a Dogs supporter rang SEN complaining the 24-13 frees. Terry Wallace replied the 13 Dogs got were more harmful

than the 24 we had. Too true.

Not much we can do about it, but pretty ordinary by the umps.

Really annoyed the give Cooney free reign.

For the life of me, I just do not rate him, even when he won the Brownlow he was a club BnF at best.

[4JacksandaKing 52]

Agreed. McDonald probably would've been a better match-up.

I'd rather have Peddo in the backline,

Edited May 10, 2014 by 4JacksandaKing

[Carlos Danger 380]

Unlike many MFC supporters, I agreed with the sliding free that Cross gave away for a goal. But Byrnes should have got one in the fwd pocket in the last to put us 8 points (?) up.

He dived for the ball and had nothing but eyes for it, some lanky opposition player gets their legs in between that then that's their problem.

Absolutely no free there whatsoever.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Carlos Danger

[Demon Disciple 11,035]

If we are complaining about umpires, i thought the boundary umpires were woeful at throwing the ball in. Some were too weak to throw it in 10 metres, whilst the others threw the ball in at right angles????

[CityDee 738]

1st quater . We looked shaky . Need to clunk the obvious .

Roosy was challenged , taste of our own and they were better at it .

He will hate that loss like we all do . Gotta finish . Till seasons end to make it happen .

[Adzman 2,085]

Sad end to a hard fought contest.

Most of what has been said covers how most of us feel so I won't bang on about who I like and don't like and who should play where. Brynes for Riley moving Salem into starting team would be a move I would like to see.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

People doubting Watts and his tackling ability tonight are blinded by his ridicule.

Saw him make several ripper, strong tackles which should have less to holding the ball decisions. His intensity has lifted for sure

[P-man 13,224]

People doubting Watts and his tackling ability tonight are blinded by his ridicule.

Saw him make several ripper, strong tackles which should have less to holding the ball decisions. His intensity has lifted for sure

I really think the defending of Watts is now more out of hope than anything else.

Rusty is spot on. His core strength is poor and he loses the one on one battles so often it's embarrassing.

Yes he made a couple of good tackles and his intensity has gone from zero to existent, but how often does his seeming lack of desire for the ball or the man cost us? It was happening again tonight and it's not good enough at this level.

His strengths get overshadowed by his glaring weaknesses. Tired of watching it. I want 22 desperately hungry players. That's what you need.

[Tatu 416]

We lost that game in the first quarter... We dominated the play and the doggies look slow, but on the score board we were behind... We should of been two goals up at the end of the first...

Matt Jones has really stood up in the last couple of matches.... Jeez... If he learns to put away those goals that he missed, then we could be onto a ripping midfielder here....

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

Some errors tonight, some preventable, others not

- Dunn on the faster Crameri

- Grimes in the midfield - such a no no

- Playing Byrnes

- Playing turnover Terlich (who has his good moments)

- Tagging Macrae with Cross

- Expecting Jetta to play a second good game in a row

- Howe in the air no punching properly

- Tom McDonald is just yuck right now

- Nath Jones getting tagged out and having no second option

- Collecting a bunch of soft frees so the dogs got a bunch of quality inside 50 free kicks

The players had a red hot crack. Against a pretty solid midfield (at least at the top end) we almost won the battle. But our lack of quality from half back and lack of goal scorers meant we couldn't punish the dogs.

I feel it was our game to win or lose and we controlled the game but that we were pushing up hill all night and not able to get reward. Maybe dogs fans feel the same who knows.

A lot to learn from this game.

[DemonWheels 972]

My first post so I hope it's a good one!

Been reading you all for a long time and love the discussion and passion - I'm addicted.

I thought we were pretty scrappy all day and were lucky to be close to them at the end of the game.

I couldn't help thinking if only we'd had a player drop back loose to the goal square when the doggies had a ball up / boundary throw in inside their forward 50 we would have stopped 3 goals that went through along the ground out of a pack throughout the game. An absolute fundamental as far as defensive setup goes in my book - proven by Jobe Watson who did exactly that up in Brisbane this avo. Not a big deal to remove one player out of the 36 that are standing within the Doggies half for security.

All the same I loved our endeavour and we're heading in the right direction so pretty happy. Go Dees.

[baysidedave 246]

These are the kind of comment that I really really detest!! The guy does not pick himself in the side. The guy does the best he can and if he is not good enough, then that is hardly his fault that the game has passed him by.

How many games of AFL have heroes like Dees13 played that entitles the likes of him/her to abuse a player because he gets a game???

agree, get sick of keyboard heroes who never got past OZkick

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

My first post so I hope it's a good one!

Been reading you all for a long time and love the discussion and passion - I'm addicted.

I thought we were pretty scrappy all day and were lucky to be close to them at the end of the game.

I couldn't help thinking if only we'd had a player drop back loose to the goal square when the doggies had a ball up / boundary throw in inside their forward 50 we would have stopped 3 goals that went through along the ground out of a pack throughout the game. An absolute fundamental as far as defensive setup goes in my book - proven by Jobe Watson who did exactly that up in Brisbane this avo. Not a big deal to remove one player out of the 36 that are standing within the Doggies half for security.

All the same I loved our endeavour and we're heading in the right direction so pretty happy. Go Dees.

Good post.

Interesting idea the goal keeper. Guarantees they'll have an extra in their wall if you do win the clearance, and also makes the clearance 50/50 whilst your guy on the line may well sit and watch the footy fly over his head.

Personally I'd just rather the spare at the defensive side of the pack to help win the contest but I'd advise all defenders to not be afraid to sag off the back and get to the line.

The backline were dumb tonight. Maybe the combination of a first up Garland and no Grimes. Hoping for better from McDonald and Dunn as we've had most weeks this year.

Need to see more possesions from Jetta. He's great around the ball but never wants to get it. And need to see a smarter Jeremy Howe. His best tonight was brilliant. His worst was horrendous.

[RickyJ45 392]

Byrne's should just retire, bring in Kent for him asap

Howe punched three that he could have marked all three went straight to bulldogs players

Howey still needs to learn to punch like a backman, force the ball down to melbourne crumbers and not out the back, goalwards to opposition

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

Oh, and Roosy would you tell matt jones to practice his running shots on goal all week please. Shattered by his miss at the end there. Really like M. Jones's effort but what good is a line breaker that can't kick?

To be fair he had a great game and was runnin hard all night - he had just sprinted down 100 metres and tried to kick at full pace. He should've slowed to steady or kept running to draw the defender off Dawes.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

Official attendance: 36,326. That seems pretty decent for two lowly sides who don't get many to their games at the best of times. Well done all.

Essendon/Dogs only got about 32-33k last week.

[Chook 14,592]

On a side note,i went and watched Southport V Lions 2's today and sadly Beamer is all but finished,Lepper is playing the younger mids like we should do with Salem over Byrnes!!!

It's not that sad if you ask me.

[Pennant St Dee 11,336]

I'm gutted about the smaller picture.

I'm actually thrilled with the bigger picture, but right now I'm just thinking about throwing away the chance to be 3-5.

Well said P-Man I have been thinking of describing how I feel, I was watching tonight thinking how good is this after last weeks surprise win that we are in this all the way. Last 2 years I would have been happy to come away with a close loss, tonight gutted because we should have iced that game and the free would not have mattered..

Feels good after the last few absolute horrible years to be proud of your club but angry that you let 1 slip, forgot how this used to feel