Jack Trengove out for year with navicular fracture

[beelzebub 22,269]

One way or one reason or another the lad unfortunately has dodgy feet. The trend doesnt bode well but surely theres a way to manage this..or is there

damn bad luck

but whats really going on..

[Macca 16,173]

He looked to have gotten back his spark in the Richmond practice match and this latest setback may explain a lot. In that match he took 13 marks and was running all over the place to receive the ball.

It's my guess that he's had the injury in some form for some time and after the injury had "quietened down" for a while, it's resurfaced and gotten a lot worse. Again, that's just a guess but foot injuries are notorious for flaring up at odd times. Some hairline fractures may not show up but the pain might be still there.

Many of us have been perplexed on how he'd lost so much pace from his early years (especially in his first few steps at a contest) Perhaps we now have our answer on why he's lost a yard or 2.

I wish him a speedy recovery and look forward to him being at his best for the start of the 2015 season.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Macca

[sue 8,463]

Trengove has Navicular stress fracture in 2012.

Trengove has foot pain for x amount of weeks? 1? 2? 4?

Scan shows no injury

Trengove's pain gets worse and repeat scans show a full blown fracture and needs surgery.

Um did they not think the scan might be wrong and that the foot pain might be related? Considering Trengove is in the VFL why not a week off with foot pain and to see if it will settle? If it doesn't settle then it's pretty obvious something is wrong. I'm really getting sick of our doctors, physios and Misson. Bad luck is bad luck but we seem to be brining some on our selves.

I'm impressed with such expertise. Where did you do your medical degree? Hindsight is wonderful. Have a look at post #67 before you single out our team's staff - Freo's staff also hopeless? Why are so many of us so keen to blame the club for everything that goes wrong. Maybe your first thought is right instead - bad luck is bad luck.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Egan played thru it & in a grand final which was his undoing likewise croad. As with all injuries treatments have improved & with correct rehabilitation he should come back successfully. If you are having any type of op you are always givien the worst case scenario & that's what squeaky girl robbo would be going with.

Thats not correct Egan's foot fractured in a marking contest, similar to Mitch Clark, he never played again after the incident and missed the GF. It was a horrific foot break and he had screws inserted that night Croad went off and never reappeared after breaking his foot im pretty sure as well. Different types of injuries it would seem to Trenners, which seems to be a overuse injury rather than the collision type.

Edited April 15, 2014 by goodoil

[olisik 4,060]

Can we rename this thread to "Jack Trengove and his foot?"

For old times sake

[Samael 560]

By the way. Trengove walking in to AAMI for scans shown on the news. No moon boot. Now maybe I'm overreacting here but if you're having foot scans don't you need to be in a boot until proven otherwise?

Isn't that the (less serious) equivalent of worrying about whether someone had a neck injury but not putting in a neck brace?

He will probably have surgery and then get a cast followed by a moon boot. Its caused by heavy loads and there is no way that he has had it for long. Very painful and he would barely run out a game. And just for the inquisitive, Roman Legions were prone to it until they cut the soldiers pack weight to 60kgs (I think its kgs or is it lbs) Modern soldiers don't carry any more to this day. If it knits he will be fine. It took James Herd two surgeries but it repaired.

[Deestar3 167]

Sorry goodoil he did miss the gf but his navicular was a trauma related injury & break unlike the more common cause of this injury which is generally stress related (ie trengove) croad had tweaked his foot in the first final but was cleared & then had a fracture dislocation during the gf & kept playing on it. I am sure jack will be back playing for us in 2015 & the type of attributes he brings as a person & young man far outweigh any perceived shortcomings in his game. Note.. they can be worked on & corrected.....character is generally inherent

[DeeSpencer 23,303]

I'm impressed with such expertise. Where did you do your medical degree? Hindsight is wonderful. Have a look at post #67 before you single out our team's staff - Freo's staff also hopeless? Why are so many of us so keen to blame the club for everything that goes wrong. Maybe your first thought is right instead - bad luck is bad luck.

Your post prompted me to look up who our current medical and physio staff are. Our head physio according to the club website is Gary Nicholls. He has a great reputation as according to his profile - http://www.opsmc.com.au/physiotherapists/gary-nicholls.html

Our listed 'head doctor' also works at Olympic park sports med and has worked at Collingwood for many years - http://www.opsmc.com.au/sports-physicians/dr-paul-blackman.html

Our secondary doctor who I often see at trainings and games came on board to replace Dr Bates from Lakeside medical. He seems more interested in the kind of Dank related stuff I'm really not impressed by -

The foot surgeon I believe most of the Victorian clubs use is also at Olympic park - Mark Blackney. If the truth is that Clark's foot these days would not be holding him back then I'm a fan of his work.

Either way false negatives and getting reassured by a false test is still bad medicine. Hogan was also put through a game with back soreness earlier this year. I'm not going to label them mistakes as mistakes imply someone is at fault but I will say they are at least 2 opportunities lost in which players bodies gave warning signs yet went undetected. I do hope they are learning from them and they are utilising the access they get by training at AAMI to some of the best specialists and using them early.

[Pennant St Dee 11,363]

Really gutted for Jack, loved the kid in his first 2 years and really think he possesses great attitude, footy smarts and sacrifices himself for the club. Hope you heal quickly Trenners and get your body right come back 100% and the next few seasons are a lot kinder to you

[monoccular 16,283]

He will probably have surgery and then get a cast followed by a moon boot. Its caused by heavy loads and there is no way that he has had it for long. Very painful and he would barely run out a game. And just for the inquisitive, Roman Legions were prone to it until they cut the soldiers pack weight to 60kgs (I think its kgs or is it lbs) Modern soldiers don't carry any more to this day. If it knits he will be fine. It took James Herd two surgeries but it repaired.

....two surgeries.....plus a bit of pharmacology maybe?????? Who knows with him?? Whatever it takes, or whatever he takes ??? Edited April 15, 2014 by monoccular

[DEE fence 4,535]

Terrible news, really hope he can get through this just for himself because he looks like he is his own hardest taskmaster.

I once fell 10m onto concrete and had ~12 hairline fractures in my feet and legs, went to hospital, and as they were not displaced (and around ankle area) the Dr couldn't see anything and said 'not busted' (St Vincents), crawling back into my house was not fun. Next day went to a specialist, who filled me up with some Fukushima salts (and actually found some pretty obvious fractures to my eyes) and had the pleasure of listening to him call up the first Dr and yell at him for 10 minutes. Anyway bones in feet hurt, it's not like a arm or a finger where you can 'deal' with it, it remain annoying for ever. I got fast again, but every time I play a match or whatever, I take three days to move properly again and it's always 5 min's walking to the bathroom in the morning.

I know that's footy but am truly sorry for Jack, I reckon the club should have boots hand made for every player, with custom footbeds if they are not already, it's not enough teaching them how to kick, some of them need remedial work on their running styles to arrest injury rates.

[What 18,810]

Misson just admitted its related to his 2012 foot injury

Christ this cub is a joke at identifying and managing injuries

Misson must be sacked

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

Misson just admitted its related to his 2012 foot injury

Christ this cub is a joke at identifying and managing injuries

Misson must be sacked

In that case, the club definitely should of picked up on it earlier. If nothing showed on an X-ray then they should have rested him. Argh!

[Pipefitter 2,027]

Is this a stress related injury or from a collision? Seems to be a trend at this club. Even Grimes had something like this didn't he? We never get someone injured for 2-3 weeks. Its either a year, or retirement.

[Webber 10,178]

Trengove has Navicular stress fracture in 2012.

Trengove has foot pain for x amount of weeks? 1? 2? 4?

Scan shows no injury

Trengove's pain gets worse and repeat scans show a full blown fracture and needs surgery.

Um did they not think the scan might be wrong and that the foot pain might be related? Considering Trengove is in the VFL why not a week off with foot pain and to see if it will settle? If it doesn't settle then it's pretty obvious something is wrong. I'm really getting sick of our doctors, physios and Misson. Bad luck is bad luck but we seem to be brining some on our selves.

So you're suggesting the medical and fitness staff are negligent and ignorant? It's this kind of mindless uninformed drivel that makes Demonland bounce from entertaining and interesting to frustrating and stupid. If you knew ANYTHING about the aetiology, diagnosis and management of midfoot injuries your opinion MIGHT be valid. In the absence of knowledge, it is simply rubbish.

[nutbean 8,837]

You guys have so little insight into the medical conditions and actual medical histories of players yet are so confident in making pronouncements - it amazes me.

This is a heavy contact/collision sport - players play each week with sore spots and niggles. That any player is 100% spot on is usually a rarity.

You watch players in the rooms after a game and they are icing up legs and arms - would you suggest that they don't play them then next week ? rest them ?

Football clubs are in the business of winning games and that requires the best players to be out on the ground playing

The medical staff have a balance act on making calls between injuries that can be played on, that may not get worse with playing or not playing them at all.

How many time do you see players cop a knee injury and then the player says he thinks he is ok and goes back on the ground to test it - then after the game a serious knee injury is identified and they miss multiple games - conversely - the exact opposite happens too - they go out and play and all is good.

How many times do you hear players say that they will continue to play because of finals looming but after the event it is revealed that had there been no finals they would have gone in for surgery? whats that doing to their bodies ( let alone jabs that keeps them going).

Then compound all this with players who are so keen to play that they are not as forthcoming on pain issues as they should be.

We applauded Dawes coming back but that could have had serious consequences - by his own admission he is underdone.

We hear coaches say that they will take "conservative approach" with players - nonsense - it is a roll of the dice as players and medico's push the limits to get players back on the field as quickly as possible or allow players to keep playing with injuries that may ( or in the case of Trengove ) may not settle..

That is the nature of professional sports and medico's will get it right and get it wrong - or more accurately - the players bodies will accept the medical regime or it won't.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

You guys have so little insight into the medical conditions and actual medical histories of players yet are so confident in making pronouncements - it amazes me.

This is a heavy contact/collision sport - players play each week with sore spots and niggles. That any player is 100% spot on is usually a rarity.

You watch players in the rooms after a game and they are icing up legs and arms - would you suggest that they don't play them then next week ? rest them ?

Football clubs are in the business of winning games and that requires the best players to be out on the ground playing

The medical staff have a balance act on making calls between injuries that can be played on, that may not get worse with playing or not playing them at all.

How many time do you see players cop a knee injury and then the player says he thinks he is ok and goes back on the ground to test it - then after the game a serious knee injury is identified and they miss multiple games - conversely - the exact opposite happens too - they go out and play and all is good.

How many times do you hear players say that they will continue to play because of finals looming but after the event it is revealed that had there been no finals they would have gone in for surgery? whats that doing to their bodies ( let alone jabs that keeps them going).

Then compound all this with players who are so keen to play that they are not as forthcoming on pain issues as they should be.

We applauded Dawes coming back but that could have had serious consequences - by his own admission he is underdone.

We hear coaches say that they will take "conservative approach" with players - nonsense - it is a roll of the dice as players and medico's push the limits to get players back on the field as quickly as possible or allow players to keep playing with injuries that may ( or in the case of Trengove ) may not settle..

That is the nature of professional sports and medico's will get it right and get it wrong - or more accurately - the players bodies will accept the medical regime or it won't.

I think the point of frustration with posters has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge of medical conditions but more so to do with the fact that Jack has already had issues with his foot that has similarities to a previous injury, hence why people think it should of been matched earlier...

[The Chazz 4,077]

Fortunately Robbos hardly been on the money

Ah, he's learnt from his mistakes now B59. Instead of delaring one way or another, he lists a number of scenarios that could happen, with the theory that his articles will "always" be "right".

Examples;

Mitch Clark - Robbo reported a meeting between club and management where Mitch will either retire, ask for more time off, come back and start training straight away or head overseas for specialist treatment. Not sure what the other options would be if he didn't do one of the four that the sloth listed.

Jack Trengove - Robbo said it'll either end his career or it won't. Wow, thanks for that, genius. I feel so much smarter knowing that he will either play again or he won't.

I get the feeling Robbo backs 24 horses in the Melbourne Cup, just so he can tell anyone that can be bothered listening that he backed the winner.

[nutbean 8,837]

I think the point of frustration with posters has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge of medical conditions but more so to do with the fact that Jack has already had issues with his foot that has similarities to a previous injury, hence why people think it should of been matched earlier...

I had the pleasure of talking with Shaun Smith about injuries and although the Science has progressed he said the tightrope hasn't. Shaun said he was never 100% pain/ache/niggle free - it was a fine line between what was his norm and what was a more serious injury with which he shouldn't play. He reckons 90% of the time the medico's and himself go it right. He pointed out that nothing has changed today and the medical staff still heavily rely on player feedback as to what is going on with their bodies.

Players play with niggles and soreness - the scans didn't pick up Trengoves fracture.

If you took the cautious approach with 3/4 of the players playing today you wouldn't have any of them on the field.

But we slam the medico's for Trengove playing when perhaps he shouldn't and we slam the medico's because Hogans back isn't following the timetable we would like.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

Ah, he's learnt from his mistakes now B59. Instead of delaring one way or another, he lists a number of scenarios that could happen, with the theory that his articles will "always" be "right".

Examples;

Mitch Clark - Robbo reported a meeting between club and management where Mitch will either retire, ask for more time off, come back and start training straight away or head overseas for specialist treatment. Not sure what the other options would be if he didn't do one of the four that the sloth listed.

Jack Trengove - Robbo said it'll either end his career or it won't. Wow, thanks for that, genius. I feel so much smarter knowing that he will either play again or he won't.

I get the feeling Robbo backs 24 horses in the Melbourne Cup, just so he can tell anyone that can be bothered listening that he backed the winner.

Funny you mention this. I've observed it as well lately where he will list options, was only telling the old man last night to take note of it.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

I had the pleasure of talking with Shaun Smith about injuries and although the Science has progressed he said the tightrope hasn't. Shaun said he was never 100% pain/ache/niggle free - it was a fine line between what was his norm and what was a more serious injury with which he shouldn't play. He reckons 90% of the time the medico's and himself go it right. He pointed out that nothing has changed today and the medical staff still heavily rely on player feedback as to what is going on with their bodies.

Players play with niggles and soreness - the scans didn't pick up Trengoves fracture.

If you took the cautious approach with 3/4 of the players playing today you wouldn't have any of them on the field.

But we slam the medico's for Trengove playing when perhaps he shouldn't and we slam the medico's because Hogans back isn't following the timetable we would like.

Yes I played footy for years and can testify that I can't remember a game where I wasn't sore that's for sure. I was more pointing out that perhaps they should of took a more conservative approach re trengoves foot due to the previous injury, however I don't know what's going on/being said behind closed doors. As for Hogan, I don't mind when he plays, as long as he signs on with us.

As for Shaun Smith, no wonder that bloke was always sore, he would of had some very hard falls from great heights during his career!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,500]

Terrible news, really hope he can get through this just for himself because he looks like he is his own hardest taskmaster.

I once fell 10m onto concrete and had ~12 hairline fractures in my feet and legs, went to hospital, and as they were not displaced (and around ankle area) the Dr couldn't see anything and said 'not busted' (St Vincents), crawling back into my house was not fun. Next day went to a specialist, who filled me up with some Fukushima salts (and actually found some pretty obvious fractures to my eyes) and had the pleasure of listening to him call up the first Dr and yell at him for 10 minutes. Anyway bones in feet hurt, it's not like a arm or a finger where you can 'deal' with it, it remain annoying for ever. I got fast again, but every time I play a match or whatever, I take three days to move properly again and it's always 5 min's walking to the bathroom in the morning.

I know that's footy but am truly sorry for Jack, I reckon the club should have boots hand made for every player, with custom footbeds if they are not already, it's not enough teaching them how to kick, some of them need remedial work on their running styles to arrest injury rates.

What's the deal with football boots? Clubs have jumper and shorts suppliers but I vaguely recall that perhaps boots are left to the individual player. I know one thing. If I was the licensed Melbourne boot supplier...I'd either (a) be keeping a low profile right now or (b) making a big announcement about working with the club to improve the design and fit of the club's boots to improve foot support.

[Jaded No More 58,662]

Egan is the only player I can remember not to come back from this injury.

Garland and Grimes are prime examples of players who can come back, lost no speed and actually got better (especially Garland!).

Doesn't mean he won't always have issues, but this is far from the end of his career. He's very young and has plenty left in him.

[TGR 1,367]

There are some extreme views either way on this thread; with the truth more likely to be somewhere in the middle.

I was at training before the Geelong NAB challenge game and reported on here that Hogan had back issues (right sided for memory). Lets do the sums. He was clearly affected by a back problem; he is super young and talented; and the NAB challenge is nothing. He should not have played; irrespective of what the scan was to later show.

In relation to foot problems, no practitioner at MFC is negligent or ignorant; but that doesn't guarantee a knowledge void somewhere in the chain. Our physiotherapists are top notch, but physiotherapists spend hardly any time studying the foot and its pathologies etc... Physiotherapists think that they can apply pure physio principles to the foot, but that is only a small part of the picture. Apparently, our podiatrists are only part-time if that; but even podiatrists can sometimes be over-focussed on the insole and brand of the boot; and tutting at WAGs who wear high heels.

Then you get to the Foot Specialists, like Blakney, Bedi, & Schneider et al.. They are great foot surgeons, and Melbourne (the city) is lucky to have a number of foot surgeons to choose from. However, what the mug punter and even some health people don't realise is that their knowledge is really about surgery only. They have no idea about when rehab must take on a different approach other than 'textbook'. So during a rehab process when things aren't going too well, the surgeon is invariably guided by scans (nothing is wrong until radiologically depicted) or the black-and-white need to have another go at surgery.

Actually, we get the extremes right. When something clearly needs rest, we give it. When the accelerator needs to be pressed with rehab, its all guns blazing. What is a lot more difficult to nail is the in-between; what slight pains can we ignore, and which ones must we respect.

[old dee 22,947]

Why is it I have the uncomfortable feeling that we have seen the last of JT!

Is this a case of playing a kid too much in his first couple of years?

Seems we knew in 2012 that something was not right but he played on, probably he was his own worst enemy.

I suspect that as a captain he felt the need to be on the field.

The kid has all the right ingredients we need sadly it may be some time before we know his future.

I know it is a different injury to Clark but all the same southing words were said about Clark's injury.

This is the MFC we seldom have things work out well with injuries