Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[jnrmac 20,065]

Oh and the board directors. They are toast. They are legally liable for what went on at the club and will now be on the hook for all the damning evidence, poor governance, failing Director's duties, duty of care to players, duty of care to the club, failing to act in the best interests etc etc.

And I am still waiting for Worksafe Victoria to say something. If I did that to my employees I would be in jail. WTF are they waiting for??

[Cards13 9,117]

And why they did not take te waivers to the AFLPA and their lawyers to get a opinion on it or their management group? Staggering.

[Nasher 33,616]

I don't buy that for a second, you just have to look at the responses from players of other clubs about what was happening to them. Off-site injections on that magnitude, and not one of them queried it with the players association.

That's really the bit I've never understood, Jarka. You would think if anything smelled even slightly funny, at least one of the 34 players would've raised an alarm. I just can't believe that every single one of the players would be complicit. It doesn't make sense.

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

As much as I enjoy seeing Essendon, Hird and Little get flogged, and would love to see them stuck on the bottom of the ladder and broke for a few years, I can't disconnect that from the players who have been completely and utterly screwed over here. Maybe fatherhood has done something to me but I always find myself looking at it through the eyes of a parent, and if it were one of my sons at the footy club I'd be furious beyond belief at the contempt in which these egomaniacs are treating their players with. They got completely pilloried in the court and they're still continuing with their denial tactics, while the future of a large group of their players are still at risk.

The latest player comments show just how brainwashed these blokes have been by the EFC.

You mean the same players who do hours of education sessions twice yearly to remind them not to take anything that they don't know, don't trust, and that they're ultimately responsible for anything that they end up taking, risking bans if it's illegal?

I think the players are being treated like naive and utter morons. Mind you, I'd argue they behaved like utter morons who are not nearly as innocent as they protest.

McDevitt is going to go after them too for these reasons, and the fact that they won't admit culpability. They have been shockingly poorly advised.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

I recall reading of the answer as to why only 34 players got SCN's. It was along the lines of, Essendon analysed all the interviews and the main difference between player responses was that the ones who recalled/saw/heard about Thymosin Beta 4 sounding 'familiar'or on the premises' got the SCN's. Ipso facto they should have known it was illegal and had the opportunity to say 'no'.

Don't know if this is true but it would explain a lot about the legal manouvering and if true as soon as one player breaks ranks the EFC will be like the proverbial house of cards.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

And I am still waiting for Worksafe Victoria to say something. If I did that to my employees I would be in jail. WTF are they waiting for??

Worksafe are all over it. The work is essentially all done for the investigators. They will await outcomes before they hit.

[Jarka 767]

That's really the bit I've never understood, Jarka. You would think if anything smelled even slightly funny, at least one of the 34 players would've raised an alarm. I just can't believe that every single one of the players would be complicit. It doesn't make sense.

I'm reminded of a study that was done on Olympic athletes years ago. They were asked to answer one question which was if they were offered a drug which would guarantee them winning an Olympic gold but the side effects were that they would die in 10 years time, would they take it? more than half of them said that they would.

Scary stuff

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

It's common knowledge that the players didn't really understand the boring lectures on drugs and personal responsibility, and naturally trusted Hird, Dank et al. to do the right thing.

They were simply too trusting and naive. Blokes like Fletcher and Watson were just too in awe of Hird to question his directions. The idea that injecting supplements might give them an advantage in getting a premiership was unthinkable, although all players swear that getting a flag is their greatest goal. And David Zaharakis refused to be involved because he's a wimp about injections, not because he smelled danger.

Not.

[rjay 24,928]

I don't buy that for a second, you just have to look at the responses from players of other clubs about what was happening to them. Off-site injections on that magnitude, and not one of them queried it with the players association.

I really find this hard to believe. I know that's what they say but I really find it impossible to believe that not one player mentioned anything to someone at the players association or to a player manager. I think there are some on the outside who knew more and did nothing.

[Nasher 33,616]

I'm reminded of a study that was done on Olympic athletes years ago. They were asked to answer one question which was if they were offered a drug which would guarantee them winning an Olympic gold but the side effects were that they would die in 10 years time, would they take it? more than half of them said that they would.

Scary stuff

That's still not 100% though, is it?

34/34 players not asking a question, raising a red flag, asking the AFLPA, talking to anyone about it outside the Essendung bubble...

Too hard to believe for mine. Either it's not true and someone's covering something up, or the players had reason to believe everything was legitimate.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

That's still not 100% though, is it?

34/34 players not asking a question, raising a red flag, asking the AFLPA, talking to anyone about it outside the Essendung bubble...

Too hard to believe for mine. Either it's not true and someone's covering something up, or the players had reason to believe everything was legitimate.

or they believed they were going to get away with it.

[Redleg 40,925]

This is the biggest mess ever in the AFL/VFL history.

[Whispering_Jack 30,140]

I recall reading of the answer as to why only 34 players got SCN's. It was along the lines of, Essendon analysed all the interviews and the main difference between player responses was that the ones who recalled/saw/heard about Thymosin Beta 4 sounding 'familiar'or on the premises' got the SCN's. Ipso facto they should have known it was illegal and had the opportunity to say 'no'.

That's partly the case but I don't think the references were to TB4, rather they were more general in terms of mentioning thymosin of which there are two types. ASADA is said to have evidence (partly circumstantial) which shows that the thymosin used at Essendon was TB4 and this evidence is supposed to come from a number of different sources and which, based on the burden of proof which applies to these investigations, is sufficient to sustain an infraction notice against each player in question. From what I've read about it, the volume of the evidence is overwhelming and thanks to Middleton J's decision handed down on Friday the football world will, for better or worse, finally get the chance to hear what James Hird wanted from the very beginning - the truth.

[daisycutter 29,616]

This statement attributed to an Essendon player in the HUN article is simply amazing:

• The player said he had “no idea, none” that even if Essendon were successful in the Federal Court ASADA could launch a fresh investigation and re-gather the evidence needed for the issuing of show cause notices.

Everyone with a passing interest in the case knew that was touted as a strong possibility. It seems the Essendon players have been cocooned in a media-free zone and totally under the mind control of the club.

this is not surprising. they seemed equally unaware of their options/responsibilities during the pharmacological experimentations

i find it very hard to accept that everyone of the 34 players failed to seek any outside advice during this period

some were naive and duped but i can't believe all 34 could have been, with all the drug education of the wada code afl players receive

[The Great Pretender 463]

It's common knowledge that the players didn't really understand the boring lectures on drugs and personal responsibility, and naturally trusted Hird, Dank et al. to do the right thing.

They were simply too trusting and naive. Blokes like Fletcher and Watson were just too in awe of Hird to question his directions. The idea that injecting supplements might give them an advantage in getting a premiership was unthinkable, although all players swear that getting a flag is their greatest goal. And David Zaharakis refused to be involved because he's a wimp about injections, not because he smelled danger.

Not.

I was told Zaharakis has a tattoo on a normally concealed part of his body. Tattooists usually use needles don't they?

[Nasher 33,616]

or they believed they were going to get away with it.

34 out of 34 players believed they were going to get away with it? Nup. Can't believe that.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

That's partly the case but I don't think the references were to TB4, rather they were more general in terms of mentioning thymosin of which there are two types. ASADA is said to have evidence (partly circumstantial) which shows that the thymosin used at Essendon was TB4 and this evidence is supposed to come from a number of different sources and which, based on the burden of proof which applies to these investigations, is sufficient to sustain an infraction notice against each player in question. From what I've read about it, the volume of the evidence is overwhelming and thanks to Middleton J's decision handed down on Friday the football world will, for better or worse, finally get the chance to hear what James Hird wanted from the very beginning - the truth.

That makes more sense. I suppose the implication is that just hearing the word 'Thymosin' a player should be aware enough to go away and check which type it was and then say 'no'.

Hird will probably still claim (as he did under oath) that I was just doing what I was told...I was but a mere coach!

[sue 9,106]

34 out of 34 players believed they were going to get away with it? Nup. Can't believe that.

If so, are we really at the point of saying they were all convinced that the injections were legal and thought the waivers were to do with other matters, eg. can't sue for long-term health issues, messing-up of tattoos or whatever?

That quote in the HUN today, which I and a couple of others have pointed to, shows that at least one player as recently as the last couple of months was totally brainwashed by the club.

You don't need all 34 to be of one mind - some may be in the "we'll get away with it" camp, others trusted the various gods that inhabit the club, others kept quiet for a mixture of those reasons and team loyalty and others don't have a brain in the head, and maybe 1 pretended he was scared of needles.

While it is surprising that still one or two didn't ring an alarm bell, perhaps we underestimate the internal loyalty of an AFL team. Well that's one positive for FA - it will help put an end to that herd/Hird mentality.

[biggestred 5,088]

The players knew the drugs were on the premises.

I have no sympathy for them.

They should get the full 2 years.

Essendon should also be removed from the competition for a number of years, or made to play with a depleted list for 0 points.

[mauriesy 7,296]

ASADA is said to have evidence (partly circumstantial) which shows that the thymosin used at Essendon was TB4 and this evidence is supposed to come from a number of different sources and which, based on the burden of proof which applies to these investigations, is sufficient to sustain an infraction notice against each player in question.

Thymosin (Alpha 1) is supposed to aid the treatment of cancer, hepatitis and AIDS. Thymosin Beta-4 is supposed to assist in tissue recovery from injury.

They also have different recommended dosage rates. The dosage rates Dank specified match those for Thymosin Beta-4, not Thymosin.

Not too hard to draw an inference.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

The surprise anouncement if true that Hird has suddenly left overseas for yet another study trip does not bode well for his coaching future. He should be at the coal face planning next years campaign. These study trips have been effective in keeping him out of direct in your face scrutiny and IMO is the main reason why he has undertaken them. He only returned for the duration of the court case where he could keep difficult questions at arms length. Now he is gone again. His coaching return chances are Buckley's IMO

Edited September 21, 2014 by america de cali

[daisycutter 29,616]

Thymosin (Alpha 1) is supposed to aid the treatment of cancer, hepatitis and AIDS. Thymosin Beta-4 is supposed to assist in tissue recovery from injury.

They also have different recommended dosage rates. The dosage rates Dank specified match those for Thymosin Beta-4, not Thymosin.

Not too hard to draw an inference.

I didn't know that (the dosage rates). good info maurie

makes you wonder why our world class media won't/don't discuss these issues more transparently

[hardtack 10,537]

That's still not 100% though, is it?

34/34 players not asking a question, raising a red flag, asking the AFLPA, talking to anyone about it outside the Essendung bubble...

Too hard to believe for mine. Either it's not true and someone's covering something up, or the players had reason to believe everything was legitimate.

Hush money?

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

How's this for a hypothesis:

- While at the fancy management course in France Hird made some good contacts, hedged his bets - maybe lined up potential job offers. He does have international standing/contacts in his pre-coaching, sports consulting life.

- Middleton's decision makes it almost impossible for him to survive the 'Hird Must Go' groundswell that is on the way.

- Has the opportunity to stay here for GF week and host/calm sponsors and other key stakeholders. Not here.

- Should be here for trade week, list management etc Unlikely to be here for its start.

- Knows it would be difficult to work in Australia for a while (not to mention possible ridicule/tough times for his kids at school)

Could it be that he has gone to the US to follow up his France based contacts. Then

- Take a job overseas and maybe move his family there. Realistically, few outside OZ or sport would have heard of our EFC/ASADA drama

- After GF, resign as coach on the premise that he wants to re-establish his consulting/business practice... (for which EFC have so handsomely trained him) ...you know the too good to refuse offer type.

- Avoids the firestorm of the ASADA fallout. Leaves it for others to clean up the mess (probably without compunction!)

- Can maintain his self-delusion that he did nothing wrong and it has all been a conspiracy.

Warning: Hypothesis is entirely of my own creation! No truth to it whatsoever! Maybe I have been reading too many mystery novels!

Nonetheless, any takers for this hypothesis?

[daisycutter 29,616]

How's this for a hypothesis:

- While at the fancy management course in France Hird made some good contacts, hedged his bets - maybe lined up potential job offers. He does have international standing/contacts in his pre-coaching, sports consulting life.

- Middleton's decision makes it almost impossible for him to survive the 'Hird Must Go' groundswell that is on the way.

- Has the opportunity to stay here for GF week and host/calm sponsors and other key stakeholders. Not here.

- Should be here for trade week, list management etc Unlikely to be here for its start.

- Knows it would be difficult to work in Australia for a while (not to mention possible ridicule/tough times for his kids at school)

Could it be that he has gone to the US to follow up his France based contacts. Then

- Take a job overseas and maybe move his family there. Realistically, few outside OZ or sport would have heard of our EFC/ASADA drama

- After GF, resign as coach on the premise that he wants to re-establish his consulting/business practice... (for which EFC have so handsomely trained him) ...you know the too good to refuse offer type.

- Avoids the firestorm of the ASADA fallout. Leaves it for others to clean up the mess (probably without compunction!)

- Can maintain his self-delusion that he did nothing wrong and it has all been a conspiracy.

Warning: Hypothesis is entirely of my own creation! No truth to it whatsoever! Maybe I have been reading too many mystery novels!

Nonetheless, any takers for this hypothesis?

definitely been reading too many matthew reilly novels

need to update your library - LOL