Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

"We do not like that another season is having the attention drawn away from the on-field action, but appreciate that the people who play in, work for, or support our great game, are united in their belief that the Club is obliged to fight for the integrity of its players."

"The process undertaken by ASADA has been severely compromised from the outset - to the extent that it is impossible for natural justice to be served."

"Not only that, our players have been forced to endure 16 months of uncertainty, breaches of confidentiality, conflicts of interest, leaks to the media, baseless allegations and indisputable reputational damage."

"Despite being subjected to this unfair and unjust speculation in the court of public opinion, our players have acted with the utmost professionalism and integrity throughout this entire process."

"Enough is enough. We will not be bullied and we will not allow our players to be hung out to dry any longer. They have suffered enough."

and it's all because Essendon did the wrong thing, and it's going to drag out even longer because they still refuse to own up to their mistakes, they injected the players with a banned substance and now they are blaming ASADA for the effects of an investigation they requested.

Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe this, any respect i had for the Essendon football club died tonight.

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

If I were looking from a neutral POV I don't blame their tactics. They are backed up to a solid bluestone wall and arguably their survival is as stake. I really don't want them to go under. I just wish a sensible compromise could be worked out. This is where Hird and his cronies MUST fall on their sword. A stand alone competition like the AFL needs Essendon. Still the ball is in their court and their fate is governed by those prickks who won't accept responsibility.

[jazza 1,323]

I just heard the Paul Little press conference on radio and, if I heard correctly, he stated in response to one question that Essendon self-reported and co-operated with the joint investigation which it is now challenging because it had agreed not to challenge the validity of the process. In other words, now that things haven't gone well for the club, they are prepared to breach that agreement. I don't think there's any basis in fact or in law for the challenge anyway but that extraordinary comment is mind boggling.

I don't understand how a challenge to the process is going to help the integrity and reputation of his players either. To the contrary, a successful legal challenge on the ASADA process will still leave the question of the integrity of the players open and most of the football world would still regard them as drug cheats.

Strangly enough, for a club that was calling for a swift end to the drug saga, the institution of court proceedings will only prolong it and make it harder for the players to get the minimum sanction on offer. The final nail in the coffin might be that if the saga is delayed much further, there's the possibility that ASADA or WADA might be able to apply the maximum penalty of four years rather than two which applies at the moment.

Let me try to help with littles presser.

1/We were happy to self report.

2/we were happy for asada and the AFL to have a joint investigation.

3/we did our best to aid that investigation.

4/ we agreed to accept the findings of the investigation.

But now we aint happy and we will take it to court.

This has to be the presser of the century,congratulations essendon for making every other club feel honest and a good place to be.

[Outside fifty 967]

I agree that it's bad for football and it was thus since the day in 2011/12 that James Hird together with Stephen Dank decided to embark on the programme. It got dramatically worse on 7 February, 2013, deteriorated with the decision to conduct a joint AFL/ASADA investigation and then became a disaster for the code when control of the Essendon Football Club landed in Little's hands. He is now taking that club into doomsday scenario.

Essendon's posturing in this instance has the potential of killing the club and whilst I will feel bad for their supporters and pity for their players, I won't cry a single tear for them.

A wonderful summation Whispering, particularly the doomsday scenario. Little's bullying and intimidatory tactics won't influence ASADA and more importantly WADA one little bit.

[Return to Glory 8,442]

A wonderful summation Whispering, particularly the doomsday scenario. Little's bullying and intimidatory tactics won't influence ASADA and more importantly WADA one little bit.

Like everyone else i do not know how this will play out. However, I can't help but think that, at some point in time, Kyle Riemers will be a central cog in ASADA's case. Only one domino needs to fall here. It's not beyond James Turd also to go that extra mile to save his own skin. H

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Like everyone else i do not know how this will play out. However, I can't help but think that, at some point in time, Kyle Riemers will be a central cog in ASADA's case. Only one domino needs to fall here. It's not beyond James Turd also to go that extra mile to save his own skin. H

if it comes down to it i have no doubt hird would throw the club under the bus just to get a reduced punishment

[monoccular 17,432]

I agree with your position on this Nutbean. I believe that the players could have reasonably expected to rely on the advice of their doctors and sports scientists.

There is no doubt they are guilty under the code M quoted and they will be subject to that code. But is it good code? Did it envisage a situation where in the EFC environment young men were lied to? Like you I don't believe the players knowingly cheated. I strongly suspect they were lied to either directly or indirectly.

This process we are now going through is, in chess terms, the opening. When it's done and dusted the players, parents and employees will start looking for remedies against the AFL and the EFC. Those basking in Essendon's situation have no idea. This is bad for football and as such it is bad for us. To think there is no trickle down effect is naive.

What would be far far worse for football, possibly the beginning of the end for it, would be for a club that deliberately set out to use drugs to cheat, AND to deceive its gullible players, to "get away with it".

the dam will crack, there is no doubt in my mind... Just a matter of time.

Hopefully before Sunday :-))

As an aside.

Goddard and Chapman must be hoping for infractions and suspensions - Essendon still has to pay 95% of the cap - to two players only !!!!!! Now that's a salary !

Don't forget Zaharakis who didn't like injections. So, a three way split.

It is very interesting that even as insiders to the AFL, they were able to be convinced to move to Essendon with this threat hanging over their heads.

Chapman, I understand end of career, but surely Goddard and manager could see the risk?

Maybe Goddard sees captaincy (the sole survivor) and a few B&Fs ?

[jazza 1,323]

The punishment will be copping it from oppo fans for the next 20 years.

welcome to the big league bombers,ppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

[monoccular 17,432]

Like everyone else i do not know how this will play out. However, I can't help but think that, at some point in time, Kyle Riemers will be a central cog in ASADA's case. Only one domino needs to fall here. It's not beyond James Turd also to go that extra mile to save his own skin. H

Have I missed something? What special role has Reimers?

[Cards13 9,117]

Club and players and anyone else who gets in his way. He is a product of his environment, Essendon.

I am constantly gobsmacked by the Essendon responses. Also has Little been correct on anything he has stated since he came to stupidity, I mean power?

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

Have I missed something? What special role has Reimers?

He left the club in unhappy circumstances around the time this drug issue blew up and said a few words.

Edited June 13, 2014 by america de cali

[rjay 24,940]

Frank & Claire Underwood....James and Tanya Hird.......what's the end game? watch out Paul, Gillon & Mike and don't go near any train stations Caro.

[Return to Glory 8,442]

Have I missed something? What special role has Reimers?

Monocular, I am guesstimating, yes. But my hunch is that someone has rolled and he was ridiculed by the club at the time. Time will tell.

[jazza 1,323]

Have I missed something? What special role has Reimers?

He pretended to fall asleep during drug meetings.

And he was interviewed early in the piece on radio saying the bombers were on the edge,Spike then commented that riemers was a toad.

Its remained that way ever since,Your either in with the bombers or your nuffink.

Edited June 13, 2014 by jazza

[Crompton's the man 659]

Is Zaharakis the only refusenik?

And was it needle phobia, not pharmacologophobia ?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Have I missed something? What special role has Reimers?

He left the club in unhappy circumstances around the time this drug issue blew up and said a few words.

This is just one thing I have found.

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/damian-barretts-extended-kyle-reimers-interview/

[rumpole 515]

This is just one thing I have found.

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/damian-barretts-extended-kyle-reimers-interview/

Throws a different complexion on things because it tell us that the players weren't bullied into going into the programme and they were very careless about getting involved in what was obviously a dubious programme.

[beelzebub 23,379]

Throws a different complexion on things because it tell us that the players weren't bullied into going into the programme and they were very careless about getting involved in what was obviously a dubious programme.

nowhere to run really is there

[beelzebub 23,379]

As an accompaniment to this I would like to see Tim Watson break ranks with his old lot and put his son well and truly first. A decent father would.

(typo)

hmmmmm

Watson questions Hird as Coach in future

listen carefully and you can hear a cracking !!!!

Edited June 13, 2014 by beelzebub

[Spirit of '87 333]

http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sport/afl/news/2014/6/james-hird-has-taken-personal-action-against-the-ceo-of-asada/

[Sideshow Bob 2,386]

As for the argument of they didn't know what they were taking. I wouldn't have thought too many Chinese swimmers, or Russian and East German athletes would have had any idea what they were taking or the legality of it - just that they were take what they were given. But not 1 person on here or anywhere else for that matter would think for one second that those athletes shouldn't be banned. I for one an unequivocal - if the players took or were injected with illegal substances they get banned. If as it seems there is a systemic approach the club needs to go as well. Unfortunately there is only black and white here, ultimately there is only one person responsible for what goes in your body - yourself. That has been forgotten.

[mauriesy 7,299]

And yet to our knowledge - that didn't happen. Can I ask you M, do you believe that the players knew they were doing wrong and turned a blind eye thinking they would never get caught or do you believe they were naive, negligent and just plain foolish to not ask questions.

They were most likely ignorant, but I don't really know for sure. It wouldn't be the first time a whole group of people haven't asked questions when they are swept up in an idea that could see them achieving an ultimate goal. What were they signing agreement to? Has anyone got a copy of the actual consent form?

[mauriesy 7,299]

I believe that the players could have reasonably expected to rely on the advice of their doctors and sports scientists.

There is no doubt they are guilty under the code M quoted and they will be subject to that code. But is it good code? Did it envisage a situation where in the EFC environment young men were lied to? Like you I don't believe the players knowingly cheated. I strongly suspect they were lied to either directly or indirectly.

Look, there was the case of a Belarusian shotputter named Nadzeya Ostapchuk who won gold at the 2012 London Olympics. She was later disqualified from the medal for testing positive for a banned substance. She was tested twice, before and after she had finished first. Both samples indicated the presence of the anabolic agent metenolone. She received a one-year ban after her coach, Alexander Yefimov, admitted to spiking her coffee with metenolone without her knowledge after being worried about her performance, stating that he thought the drug would be clear before the tests were administered.

That is total "innocence" on the part of the athlete, but she lost the gold medal on the basis that it was unfair to the rest of the competitors that they were beaten by someone whose performance was still drug-enhanced. She did get a 50% time reduction because of the circumstances. There is advice in the WADA Athlete Guide for athletes to 'consult doctors and sports medicine experts' about substance administration, so if their own advisers are corrupt there is some leniency but not total absolution.

Similarly, Essendon players might be entitled to a reduction in their suspension if they have been lied to by the club, but if they still had drugs in their system, they shouldn't get off entirely in relation to all the other teams and players in the AFL who weren't enhancing performance by illegal doping. (I guess there's no medal to take off Essendon.)

[old dee 23,792]

I see Hird is taking separate legal action against ASADA.

Oh Jimmy can you look any worse?

Edited June 13, 2014 by old dee

[jabberwocky 2,301]

If we allow the "I didn't know what I was taking" defence then we may as well give up on having a code altogether.